Tuning Shops Locking Your Ecu's Tune

[Peter89]

i wouldnt pay for a tune that would get locked. i'd find another company.

[BASHO]

IMO If you take something like ECUtech , I had this program loaded into an MY00 WRX and tweeked by MRT in Sydney and customtuned and upgraded by Mercury in Brisbane later when I'd added a few more mods.

When I purchased the tune as done in the first place I knew it was locked and that only ECUtech liscence owners/workshops could access the programe--I could however reset the thing at any time back to the last tune myself and clear fault codes like an AFM fault code if I had to replace one . the point being I purchased an already developed programme--so far so good.

If on the other hand I had however taken my car to be tuned with an aftermarket access motherboard fitted (for example) for a generic tune and I payed for that tuning work and the motherboard and the motherboad installation I fricked if I'm see why I should not have the access code as this would be a generic tune parculiar to that car.

In point of fact I would not have the work done at a workshop that would not provide the access code when the work was completed.-and payed for of course.

I would want it locked however--individual owners are not the only animals that fiddle with ECU's when other animals backs are turned.

Edited April 20, 2010 by BASHO

[Kinks]

I disagree with saliya that ECU tuning is anything like programming a TV remote. Coming up with every possible combination in a 20x20 matrix does not constitute IP either, just demonstrates a rudimentary understanding of permutations. That set of results is useful to nobody, a good tune is.

An ECU tune may fall under copyright laws in the sense that it is data on a storage medium - like a computer file. The right to copy (or protect against copying) is held by the creator of the work, not the physical item (ECU). Similar to owning a book, you own the physical item but you have no right of copy of the words. You do however have permission to "use" the words, similar to how you have permission to use a tune by driving the car. The book analogy isn't perfect - you don't have the right to see the raw data much as you don't have the right to see Microsoft's source code for their operating systems. You're allowed to use the end result but you're not allowed to see the nuts and bolts of how it works and potentially reproduce it yourself.

I'm with warps on this one a car enthusiast has a biassed opinion on what it should be because they only see it from their own perspective. Likewise a tuner will only see it from theirs. I see no problem with a tuner locking a tune to protect their investment of time and stop people from copying it, and I see no problem with a car enthusiast wanting access to their tune and portability between tuners. Ultimately the conditions of sale need to be discussed before the tuner starts, so that everybody understands what they're walking away with - whether locked or unlocked.

[saliya]

I disagree with saliya that ECU tuning is anything like programming a TV remote.

I take it you're talking about 'level of difficulty'. Plainly you've never tried programming a Blaupunkt remote

Coming up with every possible combination in a 20x20 matrix does not constitute IP either, just demonstrates a rudimentary understanding of permutations.

Agreed (I don't think it's IP).

But if coming up with one of those permutations is IP; then coming up with a superset must also be.

An ECU tune may fall under copyright laws in the sense that it is data on a storage medium - like a computer file. The right to copy (or protect against copying) is held by the creator of the work, not the physical

To be copyrightable, a work must be:

* an original expression in a tangible medium (i.e. it must physically exist)

* a type of work which is copyrightable - basically, an artistic work (like a sculpture, painting, drawing, or photograph), a building (or model thereof); a video or audio recording; or a computer program.

See http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/ for the gory details.

I don't think that an ECU tune could be classed as any of the above - so it's not copyrightable; and I believe that if it were classed as anything it would be a "computer program".

Which, as previously, the user has a legal right under the Act to view/disassemble/change for certain purposes (e.g. to correct errors, see s47E).

To summarise; a tuner may think that they have a legal basis on which they can lock a customer's ECU. I just don't think that IP or copyright laws form that legal basis.

There may well be another legal basis (e.g. EPA rules) that mandate locking an ECU - but in that situation, the new tuner should be able to unlock.

Whether or not there is a legal basis, no tuner should lock an ECU without previously advising the customer

Cheers,

SW

Edited April 20, 2010 by saliya

[mad082]

just out of curiosity, if the tune is locked, does that mean you can't even look at what the settings are, or can you just not change them? so for example, if i got a tune done and it was locked, can i still look at the map settings but not change them? or can i not even look at them?

the reason i ask is that if you can still view the map then the tuner isn't doing it to stop it being copied (as you could simply make up a spreadsheet and copy over the details) but they are locking it to either stop someone (the vehicle owner) playing with it and stuffing it up, or to stop you from taking it to any other tuner. now the first of those 2 i understand, however if the second is the case and the tuner won't give the password out to the new tuner, then wouldn't that would breach the anti-competition laws?

[BASHO]

I am presuming here but it would appear in most instances to be to prevent the vehicle being taken to anyone else to tune , in any event appearance or not the net effect of installing a lock out code and then refusing to divulge it has this result.

[darkhalf]

Locking probably depends on the implementation. With the Nistune case reading maps to / form the ECU becomes disabled inside the firmware of the board until the correct pin is presented whilst all other functionality remains available. Nothing is fool proof and there are specific companies set up to reverse engineer and read data just about out of anything. I dont see the locking functionality used that often to be quite honest as most tunes are paritcular to a vehicle as mentioned previously and based from factory maps to begin wtih

PIN locking was requested for copy protection (prevent copying of a collection of tuned maps which may fall under copyright) and to also stop users fiddling and then causing damage and then later blaming the tuner for it. Over the years I've seen quite a few tuners maps (remembering which takes time/money to develop) then being redistributed or sold by third parties.

Some aftermarket systems require tunes built from scratch which take a lot more time as they arent provided with initial values for particular vehicles by the manufacturer. This is a lot of time getting cold start, idle and then normal operation correct.

If the tune was to be treated like a software licence with an explicit agreement, then in this case the tuner owns the copyright behind the tune whilst the customer is granted an unlimited licence to uses it. With software agreements the licence is made to the customer to use the software but not own it

However there is no specific agreement such as this with a tuner in the typical scenario of adjusting maps to tune for optimal but safe performance on a vehicle. Copyright is debateable and locking is used in some cases as a physical rather than legal (and hardly enforceable) substitute. One would think that given the scenario before, providing indication of pin locking would be a good practice if it was to be used to avoid potential problems down the track

[STATUS]

They feel it is their businesses intelectual property...not the customers...thats why they are locked.

i have a few shops around us that lock ECU's (holden and ford)..... because they use the same tune in each car and dont want others to see what they are doing.... its fraud flat out.

[Dan85]

@ "Security" the dog in your display pic scare the f**king shit outa me looks like its on roids! freaken insane!

sorry to go off topic, but i agree that locking you ecu is a bit gay but can see maybe why they do it but i deffinatly think they should tell you if they are goign to and give u the option of obtaining the password by signing a waiver or somthing

just my 2 cents

[Chrispy]

I know of some tuners that won't give out the pin at a point after the tune (like the OP's current situation) as they use the same PIN on all the cars they do

No way I would go to a tuner that wouldn't leave it unlocked/give me the password. I'm a big boy now, if I blow it up, I blow it up.