Older Members Debunk Hoon Sterotyping?

[GTR-N1]

Tez Im only 35 but ready to help the Qld cause.

Good, I'll PM you later in the week and put you in touch with the other Queenslander who'll head up the cause.

If a petition can be worded well (even though state laws are the police force's common denominator), then I forsee that such a petition can...

i) be used by members in all states (as a generic item)

ii) be offered by members of other groups from other forums

iii) be presented for signing at cruises/texis/track days and other events and/or

iv) sent by e-mail to a clearing house

Many thanks, Tez

[NXTIME]

Terry, I like the concept behind this and I am all for it. However, I don't think that it will get far simply due to the 'hoon' stereotype already labelled by the public (mostly via the media).

I have had the idea that all the serious car clubs who promote legal motorsport activity should band together to help break down (or at least make some cracks) in this stereotyped public wall.

In addition to the petitions we could have "I'm an Enthusiast not a Hoon" stickers on these various clubs' members' cars to highlight to the public that there is a difference between street hoons and car enthusiasts.

[DRD-00F]

Terry, just so you know, I don't think we've put a thread up yet, but there's an AGM coming up next month. Perhaps this could be talked about there?

[GTR-N1]

Terry, just so you know, I don't think we've put a thread up yet, but there's an AGM coming up next month. Perhaps this could be talked about there?

^^^ Sat? Sun? > then I'm happy to come.

And Charles, I understand your sentiments + the differences between idealism Vs realism.

I also know that by 'having a go' and then not succeeding does NOT = failure.

Failure only happens when one doesn't give a sh/t and won't even try.

The "sticker" idea has much merit imho.

[dannyb]

Terry, I like the concept behind this and I am all for it. However, I don't think that it will get far simply due to the 'hoon' stereotype already labelled by the public (mostly via the media).

I have had the idea that all the serious car clubs who promote legal motorsport activity should band together to help break down (or at least make some cracks) in this stereotyped public wall.

In addition to the petitions we could have "I'm an Enthusiast not a Hoon" stickers on these various clubs' members' cars to highlight to the public that there is a difference between street hoons and car enthusiasts.

along with the enthusiast sticker the club/forum should be banding together for charity work to promote a better image to the public...

We get hasseled from the cops next time a cop gets hurt or killed etc as a club raise some money for the family with a cruise or jus put your hand in your pocket and give it to the family as a club not only will you feel good for helping a family in need but they then go tell there friends that sau are so nice they helped out in there time or need and most cops are friends with other cops it may take awhile and a lot of fund raising for opions to change but trust me they will.. You jus have to look at the hot roders they started out with a bad rep and now the cops don't look twice at a 18yo (ok its prob his dads car but who cares) driving a 900kg 800+hp t bucket with a motor that goes over his head and wheeliebars on the street...............

anyway thats jus my two cents worth

[Peter89]

would never happen in victoria.

think of all the money this "war" is making the government. "hoons" are a perfect scape goat, people seem to hate them more then drug dealers because of the media and i doubt things will change. we cant even get a race track approved let alone built down here, things will never change.

defects + fines = lots of money for the government.

race tracks + fixing roads = lots of expenses for permits and fixing the real problems.

[dannyb]

would never happen in victoria.

think of all the money this "war" is making the government. "hoons" are a perfect scape goat, people seem to hate them more then drug dealers because of the media and i doubt things will change. we cant even get a race track approved let alone built down here, things will never change.

defects + fines = lots of money for the government.

race tracks + fixing roads = lots of expenses for permits and fixing the real problems.

thats only cause they can more or less... hoons, young males, skylines are the new "it" problem a few years ago it was drugs and dealers the media gets hold of some young kid o/d'n so the cops crack down start up a taskforce to make it look like they are doin something but the dealers dont shut up shop they layed low until some other "it" problem came up made it look like the cops had won... thats where we come in only difference is we cant lay low most of us drive our cars every day so we need to promote that we aint the scum of the world because we like cars this is our sport we just dont use a ball we use a stearing wheel to compete..... I work on the roads and i know how bad they are but trust me they will find the money from somewhere that isn't our pockets...

remember ther goverment works for its people.. the people don't work for the goverment so if we want change we have to do some thing about it.............

[skins]

Let me know if I can help. I'm 34 and I'm sick and tired of the stigma that these cars have. There has to be a way to improve their image.

So sign me up

[NXTIME]

There are some good points being made in this thread. Keep them coming.

As I posted in the wasteland thread on ACA/TT hoon reports:

"The current rubbish being pushed by the media will only make things worse for everyone. There should be a positive push by the community, council, government, police etc to curb these activities, and one way would be a public promotion of off-street racing activities. Maybe things like giving out free passes (funded by the govt, perhaps?) to off-street drag meets, drift meets and circuit days. However, I won't hold my breath.

I think the ideas in Terry's thread have merit and the older enthusiasts should be the nucleus of a positive push on the side of car enthusiasts (not hoons) in the public domain."

[Humbla]

There are some good points being made in this thread. Keep them coming.

As I posted in the wasteland thread on ACA/TT hoon reports:

"The current rubbish being pushed by the media will only make things worse for everyone. There should be a positive push by the community, council, government, police etc to curb these activities, and one way would be a public promotion of off-street racing activities. Maybe things like giving out free passes (funded by the govt, perhaps?) to off-street drag meets, drift meets and circuit days. However, I won't hold my breath.

I think the ideas in Terry's thread have merit and the older enthusiasts should be the nucleus of a positive push on the side of car enthusiasts (not hoons) in the public domain."

Well said. Genelle.

[Messiah]

Good thread, its probably already been said, but to chime in, this needs to go further than older members.

If only older members work on it then all that happens is older drivers become "enthusiasts" and everyone younger than N is a hoon.

Points i like here... the enthusiast stickers, charity runs for those affected by reckless drivers/drunk drivers etc.

One thing i'd like to see, although it would be damn hard to police, is a zero tolerance approach to members who get done for extreme traffic crimes.

If becoming a member meant adhereing to a standard, and deviating from that standard mean being stripped of membership for a year or two, being a member of SAU would be, to some extent, a badge showing that your not just a hoon.

As mentioned... really hard to police, its not like we get reports from police or the courts when someone gets nicked for gross stupidity or anything. But it could be a start if anyone caught doing dumb crap at an SAU event is no longer welcome at any future events... atleast not as a driving member.

I guess what i'm saying is, to make a difference you have to differentiate yourself, else some will call you hypocrites. Once you stand obviously separate from the mobs you can claim the higher ground and gain respect.

and finally... i'm happy to help in anyway.

[Marlin]

Tez Im only 35 but ready to help the Qld cause.

Ditto that Terry. 35 and in Qld.

[GTR-N1]

^^^ Thanks for the support Ben & others above him.

I intend to measure heights of some cars @ car yards, like lambos. Oldies seem to have a mortgage on being able to walk into these places and 'appear' to be able to afford one or even ten of them. If I can find even one that is lower than 100mm off the ground. I regard that as evidence/proof that enthusiasts' cars of a particular genre are being singled out.

Having been a pharmacist before, I seriously doubt that the wheel used by the police has been stamped by the Department of Weights and Measures in your state. In the chemist shop, every little weight & scales have to be inspected and stamped by the above department periodically. Meanwhile, legally, we are forced to take the word of the policeman that the diameter of that wheel is 100mm and not over, when he checks the height of your exhaust/bodykit above the ground. Hmmm...

I also want to compare the legality of sponge type filters sitting above say, rochester carbies on toranas etc, and draw comparisons as to why a non-boxed pod is any more dangerous. I believe that the jets of a 4-barrel are more perilous in flammability than a dry-sponge pod.

If I had the machinery of a motor engineer to compare the dB of an Italian supercar exhaust to a fujitsubo/kakimoto on a 'Line (or even a bov), I believe that this would be contributory evidence towards a good petition too. I've seen on a thread here somewhere that a high-revving ferrari engine/exhaust is rated differently according to acceleration c.f. deceleration. I'm not sure about this. I've never been defected to ask about measuring criteria. Can someone inform me and put me out of my naivety please?

Terry

[oweban]

Offtopic, but annoying how Harley's can be 110db or so and deafen everyone within 3km, but as soon as my car is above a low rumble, it's defectable.

Ontopic, more power to you, Terry.

[Peter89]

thats only cause they can more or less... hoons, young males, skylines are the new "it" problem a few years ago it was drugs and dealers the media gets hold of some young kid o/d'n so the cops crack down start up a taskforce to make it look like they are doin something but the dealers dont shut up shop they layed low until some other "it" problem came up made it look like the cops had won... thats where we come in only difference is we cant lay low most of us drive our cars every day so we need to promote that we aint the scum of the world because we like cars this is our sport we just dont use a ball we use a stearing wheel to compete..... I work on the roads and i know how bad they are but trust me they will find the money from somewhere that isn't our pockets...

remember ther goverment works for its people.. the people don't work for the goverment so if we want change we have to do some thing about it.............

we are the minority, things wont change even if we want them to.

there's too much misinformation for things to change any time soon.

[ARTZ]

just a short note on media portrayals and such..

I 'Accidently' caught a snippet of Neighbours the other day and noticed one of the mums was getting dropped off by some bloke in a old red holden trayback ute with mags , to which one of the younger boys remarked

"What are you doin in the car with him, dont you know hes a hoon."

To this she repilied,

"Nah hes alright"

Now im not sure where this story is going but i may find myself intrigued enough to actually 'accidently' watch it again...If i can drag myself away from Today Tonight

[GTR32G]

It’s great to see an older member wanting to make a change good work Terry, I myself would be happy to help out but I’m only 28 let me know if I can help in any way.

Just a thought there are a lot of older people who run at the NSW CAMS Supersprints rounds that I believe would be happy to help out also not to mentions all the young people running as well.

I always thought would be great idea to make a video of the event and interview the drivers showing their cars and send it to ACA-TT and have the public see its our hobby and we are losing race tracks to drive on to have fun. It think would look ok if it comes from people 40+ the public may take some notice?

[GTR-N1]

Thanks for support from enthusiasts.

As Steven suggested (post #23), I'll be happy to present a draft petition @ the AGM.

Meanwhile, a draft for vetting purposes may be sent to you pretty soon.

Anyone interested in receiving one please PM me your full E-Mail address.

Again, thanks.

Footnote: I recall a scene from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" where Jack Nicholson couldn't move the water bubbler.

He said, "At least I tried". It was part of the main theme of that movie - to have go - to try!

[FineLine]

I have a dream...

I'm wondering if older members of clubs like SAU, AussieExotics, rexnet etc could collectively fragment/dismantle/debunk the 'hoon' image that's floating around - and get the enthusiast image into greater prominence through a correct perspective. I actually like the idea that enthusiasts would much rather spend $$ on their car than piss it down a drain thru drugs.

I get a wee bit angry when police invite media (and vice versa) to actively seek out places where hoons congregate and simply edit IN, the nonsense stuff. I mean when you guys out there get sick of the 1st 10sec of a TT/ACA beat-up, you turn it off don't you?

I mean, don't you get sick of having to be vigilant of the 'monkey-on-your-back' every time you take your car out in case you get pinged for pods/fmic/low bodykit/exhaust that's 15dB softer than a lambo???

So the grey-haired brigade say over 50s that qualify for National Seniors, and better still, over 60s like yours truly (as I've just applied for NSW Seniors Card); we activate a petition in each state to promote the status of members of car clubs to announce that we are indeed enthusiasts and not hoons; and even to draw attention to the flaws of 'Hoon-laws' in each state too.

Does the public know yet that it's the enthusiasts (via cruises) who donate $xxxx to charity each year - and not the so-and-sos?

Depending on whether such a petition is taken to the media first &/or the police, I can visualise these changes...

a) police drop the them-Vs-us attitude (and no longer will there be an oncoming HP officer doing a U-turn to then follow you just because you own a...)

b) police promote a 'we' attitude and car club members have some input

c) mutually redesign the laws governing what is or is not a defect

d) promotion of a D-I-M 13#### phone number to 'Dob-In-Maniacs'

e) possible usage of car club members' cars with police livery to act as scarecrows-for-a-day next to motorways

I only need you to read the very 1st paragraph of this Daily Telegraph article to emphasise my point...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/po...pr2009st104.pdf

I already know 2 other over-60s who are members of SAU who with myself could draft such a petition.

I'm sure you have similar numbers in other states as well.

Until something like the above is implemented - and not exactly as I've put it by any means, I see further escalation of antipathy between enthusiasts and police & increased frequency of aspersions by the general public against enthusiasts and hoons as if we are all lumped together as one. Between police and hoons, there will always be ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) attitudes by hoons anyway.

I'm only thinking of making use of us seniors, if we can be of any help.

Well, tell me (even as a Justice Of The Peace) to dream on if you wish to...

From one grey beard to another I commend your ideal Terry, I too have often wondered what can be done to erase the "hoon" stigma so deeply etched into the paintwork of most imports.

Oddly enough at recent qld gatherings I have been doing some quiet mental statistics in to the average age of those in attendance and I was surprised at the result. The average age is usally around the mid 30's which is hardly the stuff you see on ACA and other such useless pieces of viewing. The average clubbee is a fastidious, respectful car enthusiast fiercely proud of his or her skyline and generally aware of what bad behaviour can do to harm both themselves and the marque.

This is not to say there are not hordes of younger groups driving imports and it may well be from these elements that the branding has emanated. Within the confines of my own suburb (very much middle working class) there are clowns who think nothing of stopping in the middle of an intersection just to cut a few hoops in broad daylight then drive off like nothing has happenned. (talk about shitting in your own nest)

No organisation is ever going to be in a position to stop that kind of behaviour and as such there will always be that element for the media to feed on.

The other major hurdle to overcome is the way practically every state government uses the traffic system as a milche cow.

Until they can find another golden goose it remains quite the windfall for them to plunder motorists in an attempt to garner funds to shore up poor management on their own behalf. This in itself encourages them to feed the media with statistics and nonsense to justify the way they rort us.

To further compound the problem the same state management teams do nothing to provide or promote venues for motoring enthusiasts, Quite the opposite. More venues close every year and are not replaced.

If you have any ideas on how all of this can be reversed I am all ears Terry, Sadly I see no way out.

[GTR-N1]

I take your points ^^^

Reverse analogy:-

There have been extremely bad sets of publicity over many years about how bikie gangs do this 'n that. Still goes on I expect.

But hey, that's stereotyping!

So what do they do to break that stereotype?

They contact the media and inform them that there's a bike cruise each anniversary day where thay take gifts to the Children's Hospitals.

Somehow, that single act prompts viewers to get that 'warm-fuzzy-feeling' and until the next bikie war, people ask themselves, "Are they all that bad?"

Now without comparing ourselves to bikies - only to bad stereotyping, I wonder if 'Charity Cruises' would help to take that 'crust' away from people's eyes? I'm open to other people's ideas - trying to be a 'team person'.

In other words, I'm wondering if SAU can see the merit of a 'Publicity Subcommittee' to help generate a 'warm-fuzzy-feeling' within the community.

Quite a few 'outsiders' seemed to come along to the Official SAU SnS at Fairfield Showground on 12/09. Perhaps that promotion to the public can be expanded on more in the future.

I'm so glad you guys are contributing to the thread - you included Noel (+ RBNT who has just PM'd me with his E-Mail address this minute) > a real 'Think-Tank' here.

I've just posted up a reply to MLCrisis' Sticky (aka Canute) in WA in the past hour or so - trying to put heads together.

More E-mails sent to my PM please?