Mini Mills And Lathes

[paulR32gtr]

Sick of running around trying to find silly little fittings, bungs etc and thinking about buying a mini lathe and mill so I can make my own.

So what have you bought and how is it? Anything to watch out for?

Looking at ones made by these guys:

http://www.sieg-scandinavia.com/

I see there are also a few that transform between a mill and a lathe - I guess these will probably end up a bit of a compromise but might be a cost effective solution for light use.

Also - where do you guys get your raw materials from e.g. alloy billets etc

[Pezhead]

I have a small machine shop in the back of the garage.

I decided on a Taig Micro Mill full 3 axis CNC - although I'm only good enough to do mostly 2-axis milling. I'm pretty pleased with it for what it is. I primarily work in aluminium and polymer. It will do small cuts on mild steel but would go bigger if you plan to do much steel or s/steel work.

I also have their lathe but wouldn't recommend it. You can get a lot better micro lathe. I want to upgrade soon to something that will do threads.

Taig Website

Been thinking about getting this lathe - good price.

Oh, and the reason I need the tools it that I grew up as the son of a Boeing Machinist in Seattle. I thought everybody grew up with a full size mill and lathe in their basement right? Of course my dad wouldn't let me build a bracket or something for the car unless I had the exact plans drawn out... etc etc. I'm a lot more loose in my machining now.

The other thing to look at is this really worth your effort or just find a good machine shop that will do parts for you. You can pay for their time - a lot for the price of the machines. For me, I enjoy it and it is part of my automotive skills.

Oh, lastly, there are metal supply places around where you can buy stock - but is cheaper on ebay. I also bought a whole bunch of aluminium stock from a place that does hydrolic fittings - their scrap ends essentially.

Of course in Seattle you just hop on down to Boeing surplus and buy the stuff by the pound - Really Cheap? and cutters by the pound too! Oh how I miss that.

[paulR32gtr]

Sounds like you had the perfect upbringing Eric haha. My old man was well into electronics but never racecars unfortunately - so never had access to such lovely machines.

That is a great price for the lathe - convincing finance should be a breeze.

The other thing to look at is this really worth your effort or just find a good machine shop that will do parts for you. You can pay for their time - a lot for the price of the machines. For me, I enjoy it and it is part of my automotive skills.

Yeah I enjoy it and would get much more satisfaction making the parts myself. Might even be able to sell a few bits here and there to help with the outlay. I can see myself moving away from my current career to something like this down the track so could very well be a stepping stone. Once I have a mill, lathe and a good Tig welder I can sink my teeth into some real projects.

Appreciate the pointers - cheers.

[samstain]

don't know if this classifies as mini? Picked it up at the start of the year....

5 axis (though I have only used 3 so far), 16 + 1 tool change, 12,000 rpm

My mate made his own mini 3 axis mill - so far it has cost him about 3/4 as much as mine, and it doesnt have tool change and is about 1/10th the speed and power, on the up side though his doesn't require air and 3 phase.

Edited April 30, 2010 by samstain

[Pezhead]

Wow -that's a serious bit of kit!

It is a good idea to figure out what you are going to use/need early on and just get that. Upgrading is expensive. Decide if you need CNC for the type of work you are going to do. I bought the Taig kit about 8 years ago and I seem to recall that my outlay was about 6k for the mill, lathe and the included software to run the cnc for the mill. The software is really expensive so look out for that too if you go CNC.

Check out some of the on-line forums for some other's inputs. There is a good 7 x 12 (common reference for the mini lathes) and a CNC forum.

Good luck!

[samstain]

if you end up getting something, when you need to get some tooling I have found this place very good: ctctools.biz They are about half the price of my local 'cheap' supplier, and more like 1/3 the price of the local brand name stuff. So far I haven't broken a single cutter or drill from them - which is more than I can say for the stuff I have bought locally.

My advise is get something sooner rather than later - I was lucky I grew up on a farm (had a lathe, very basic mill, MIG etc), I then had access to a tooling shop while at uni - and actually ended up working there for about 18 months after finishing uni. Then the next 6 years I worked at a place where I had access to a very nice bridgeport when ever it wasn't being used for work. After that I moved jobs and the last 2 years I basically had access to nothing... and it was killing me. I would design and draw up all kinds of stuff and it would take ages to get anything made. I finally got jack of it and bought the mill above and a TIG welder and have been loving it ever since.

Also IMHO a second hand industrial spec one is probably going to be way better quality than a new no name one. I would be very wary of buying a new lathe over the internet without seeing it first unless it was a very well know brand with lots of positive feedback on forums etc. I have seem some that have so much slop in the slides etc they are pretty much useless, you might as well just sticky tape a cordless drill to your bench top and hold a butter knife in your hand

[paulR32gtr]

don't know if this classifies as mini? whistling.gif Picked it up at the start of the year....

My girlfriend says you are a bad influence Scott

Also IMHO a second hand industrial spec one is probably going to be way better quality than a new no name one.

Very good plan. I have a strong policy of buying quality these days even if it stretches the budget at the beginning - ends up cheaper and far less painful in the long run.

http://www.factoryhub.com.au/ looks to be a good starting point.

Thinking CNC is going to be the way to go for the mill in the long run.

Going to sit down and work out exactly what I am going to use them for down the track then go out and visit a few second hand dealers next week.

[warps]

Also IMHO a second hand industrial spec one is probably going to be way better quality than a new no name one.

Kinda yeh but not really. An old guy who used to do my machining for me in the Hunter Valley used to go around to the machinery auctions and buy the old industrial stuff. After a while though, a lot more people were chasing it, and the price went through the roof (I've had this confirmed lately by a few machinists). The chinese stuff can be very good quality, and often much cheaper than the 50 year old stuff what is getting long in the tooth (some of the precision gear can start causing problems)

Definitely steer clear of ebay stuff unless you get a chance to view and test the gear. If you go to a good industrial tool company (I use Hare and Forbes in Brisbane) they sell a lot of chinese gear, but the quality is still very good, and the price reasonable.

Also, if you are going to do any serious machining, aim for geared drive stuff rather than belt drive. Much more robust, easier to use and better in the long run.

[samstain]

I did say 'no name' - I don't consider the good quality asian stuff to be 'no-name' anymore... The mill I bought is made in taiwan - but it is made by a company with a long history of making machinery.

So yeah, buying chinese stuff from a dealer that has been selling that same brand stuff for a few years and has a good reputation should be fine, but buying one from some guy on ebay that also sells shoes, random eletrical goods and toys probably isn't a good idea, as they would have no idea how to pick a good one from a bad one and are just reselling the cheapest wholesale stuff they can find to make a quick buck. If something breaks on it chances are it will be a throw away job.

Edited May 1, 2010 by samstain

[scotty nm35]

I can only afford cheaper gear so I have to improvise.

There's not much I cant make myself now, when I get time of course.

The next toy will be a plasma cutter, I have been wanting one for a while now.

[NZM.031]

I have a small machine shop in the back of the garage.

I decided on a Taig Micro Mill full 3 axis CNC - although I'm only good enough to do mostly 2-axis milling. I'm pretty pleased with it for what it is. I primarily work in aluminium and polymer. It will do small cuts on mild steel but would go bigger if you plan to do much steel or s/steel work.

I also have their lathe but wouldn't recommend it. You can get a lot better micro lathe. I want to upgrade soon to something that will do threads.

Taig Website

Been thinking about getting this lathe - good price.

Oh, and the reason I need the tools it that I grew up as the son of a Boeing Machinist in Seattle. I thought everybody grew up with a full size mill and lathe in their basement right? Of course my dad wouldn't let me build a bracket or something for the car unless I had the exact plans drawn out... etc etc. I'm a lot more loose in my machining now.

The other thing to look at is this really worth your effort or just find a good machine shop that will do parts for you. You can pay for their time - a lot for the price of the machines. For me, I enjoy it and it is part of my automotive skills.

Oh, lastly, there are metal supply places around where you can buy stock - but is cheaper on ebay. I also bought a whole bunch of aluminium stock from a place that does hydrolic fittings - their scrap ends essentially.

Of course in Seattle you just hop on down to Boeing surplus and buy the stuff by the pound - Really Cheap? and cutters by the pound too! Oh how I miss that.

yeh im the same... both grandad and dad were fitter/turners... i thought it was normal to have 2 lathes and a milling machine in a huge shed, plus hundreds of tools and cutter bits... didnt realise then how much those bits cost.. my grandad must have been pissed at me trifling through them and making a mess.. had good access to dads stuff (when he was asleep.. farked if he would let me touch his stuff, haha) but now having moved out and having to start from scratch, i can understand why he didnt want me meddling with his stuff.. but little by little i will build up my collection.

[paulR32gtr]

Tell me about it - tools are bloody expensive. Think I paid $40-50 for a sutton 1/8 bspt tap the other day.

Can't wait to get my hands on a lathe - more dead ends today trying to find various things if I add up all the time it takes searching I should have bought one a long time ago. Could be a worry though - rather than running around trying to find cheap fittings I will be running around trying to find expensive tools instead.

Excuse the newbie question as I have never actually used a lathe - but I am interested in how you guys go about tapping internal taper threads like NPT & BSPT? I guess with CNC you can program the rate that it pushes the tap into the hole and when to stop, otherwise manually just a slow speed, skill in winding the tool in and a hand on the stop button?

[Pezhead]

Afraid it is a bit more complex than that to do internal threads. First you can ONLY do it with a machine that has auto feed - that is gear drive to the x-axis on the bed (moves the tool towards the spinning head). You have to set the feed rate at the correct ratio to the spinning speed of the part. That way the thread pitch is correct. Then you need an internal thread bit. (Assuming you've already bored the hole) you then run the thread cutter in on autofeed. It may take more than one pass.

I haven't had a machine that would do them, so been a long time for me. I always found internal threads a lot trickier than externals. If you can just tap the internal it is generally a lot easier.

[paulR32gtr]

Ah makes sense. One I am looking at does have longitudinal autofeed so ill see how I go, otherwise ill have to make up a jig to help cure my crappy tapping attempts!

[ylwgtr2]

don't know if this classifies as mini? Picked it up at the start of the year....

5 axis (though I have only used 3 so far), 16 + 1 tool change, 12,000 rpm

My mate made his own mini 3 axis mill - so far it has cost him about 3/4 as much as mine, and it doesnt have tool change and is about 1/10th the speed and power, on the up side though his doesn't require air and 3 phase.

nice...if you dont mind me asking whats that machine worth?Reason is i have a 3 axis kondia that i have converted and i am looking at selling it off soon as i have been offered 3 different machine centres

[ylwgtr2]

I have a small machine shop in the back of the garage.

I decided on a Taig Micro Mill full 3 axis CNC - although I'm only good enough to do mostly 2-axis milling. I'm pretty pleased with it for what it is. I primarily work in aluminium and polymer. It will do small cuts on mild steel but would go bigger if you plan to do much steel or s/steel work.

I also have their lathe but wouldn't recommend it. You can get a lot better micro lathe. I want to upgrade soon to something that will do threads.

Taig Website

Been thinking about getting this lathe - good price.

Oh, and the reason I need the tools it that I grew up as the son of a Boeing Machinist in Seattle. I thought everybody grew up with a full size mill and lathe in their basement right? Of course my dad wouldn't let me build a bracket or something for the car unless I had the exact plans drawn out... etc etc. I'm a lot more loose in my machining now.

The other thing to look at is this really worth your effort or just find a good machine shop that will do parts for you. You can pay for their time - a lot for the price of the machines. For me, I enjoy it and it is part of my automotive skills.

Oh, lastly, there are metal supply places around where you can buy stock - but is cheaper on ebay. I also bought a whole bunch of aluminium stock from a place that does hydrolic fittings - their scrap ends essentially.

Of course in Seattle you just hop on down to Boeing surplus and buy the stuff by the pound - Really Cheap? and cutters by the pound too! Oh how I miss that.

what CAD program are you using?I have a converted machine that runs EMC and i use GCAM which i find great

[Pezhead]

SuperCam is what I'm using - it only does 2d stuff but can generate GCODE. The machine also came with some other utilities but really haven't taken the time to learn them. To be honest the program is so simply it is just like windows paint - hehe.

There is a Freeware CAM program out there but haven't taken the time to research. All of my work so far as mainly been 2d so been fine for me.

[ylwgtr2]

SuperCam is what I'm using - it only does 2d stuff but can generate GCODE. The machine also came with some other utilities but really haven't taken the time to learn them. To be honest the program is so simply it is just like windows paint - hehe.

There is a Freeware CAM program out there but haven't taken the time to research. All of my work so far as mainly been 2d so been fine for me.

yeah gcam is freeware....its fkn great...you should take a look sometime....weve made some pretty cool stuff with it ....heres some of them

[ylwgtr2]

[samstain]

nice...if you dont mind me asking whats that machine worth?Reason is i have a 3 axis kondia that i have converted and i am looking at selling it off soon as i have been offered 3 different machine centres

Cost me $12k + GST for the machine... would have been about 15k inc GST once I had it on site, power to it, lubed up and filled with fresh coolant. Since then I have spend about another 5k on tooling. But yeah being able to make stuff like the above when ever you want is pretty much priceless.

Edited May 4, 2010 by samstain