Still Got Axle Tramp Arrgghhh!

[ARTZ]

Ah I just thought of something, it axle tramps in the wet in 1st and 2nd gear and I am pretty sure 190rwkw can overcome my tyres in the wet

Yeah iw as kinda thinking that today too...

I agree with ceffy about putting the coilovers back in and playing with adjustments, but figured you would have tried this already,,

What i dont understand is ,you are going to alot of trouble and money to stop axle tramp..

I have 190kws 255/40/17 tyres and only bilstein shocks /springs...i have never ever had a problem with axle tramp..

did it tramp before u put ku36s on it??.

If you really cant find any other wheels i got a spare set if you think its worth a try

Edited May 4, 2010 by Arthur T3

[Harey]

Yeah iw as kinda thinking that today too...

I agree with ceffy about putting the coilovers back in and playing with adjustments, but figured you would have tried this already,,

What i dont understand is ,you are going to alot of trouble and money to stop axle tramp..

I have 190kws 255/40/17 tyres and only bilstein shocks /springs...i have never ever had a problem with axle tramp..

did it tramp before u put ku36s on it??.

If you really cant find any other wheels i got a spare set if you think its worth a try

I bought the car with the KU36s and the coilovers on it november last year. It axle tramped from the very beginning, I didnt think to give it a big launch on the test drive . I tried all different tyre pressures and coilover settings to no avail. It axle tramped with every different test.

The coilovers had some top joint that is metal on metal so made a terrible racket driving along. I didnt know what the issue was so dropped it in to Centreline and they said one of my rear coilovers was leaking and the top joints were making all the noise. They also mentioned quite a few bushes needed changing, so I changed the bushes they recommended (neither were subframe or diff bushes) and gradually got the bilsteins and king springs in there. So the bushes and suspension were not done to fix the axle tramp.

After I had the rear suspension changed the axle tramp reduced slightly, however was still very much there. Centreline then fitted some pineapples in the all round position, this is the first thing I did specifically to fix the axle tramp. The axle tramp did not seem to reduce at all with the pineapples which shocked Chris at Centreline, I went down on sat and spent a few hours taking him for a drive and him trying things. We couldnt find anything that would reduce it, I am taking it in there tomorrow to have the pineapples changed to max sqaut to see if that helps.

I think the only thing remaining is the diff bushes, although I have heard there is a lot of labour involved.

Yes Chris and I agree that the wide sticky tyres wont be helping the axle tramp but we dont believe it is the cause. I think changing the tyre pressures test rules this out. If it only axle tramped with say low tyre pressures you could say there was a defect with the tyre, but I think if it happens with all tyre pressures then it reduces the chances it is the cause. Pretty much everything I have read (including RBceffy25's detailed post in this thread) suggests that different tyres and pressures can change when you break traction but are not the root cause of axle tramp.

However, I would still love to try some stock wheels and tyres to see. I started looking around for some cheapies but they were either interstate or wouldnt fit.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Harey

[tarmac]

Lower control arm bushes

Rear Traction arms

Solid mount subframe.

[Harey]

Lower control arm bushes

Rear Traction arms

Solid mount subframe.

Thanks for that. I am still a bit confused by terminology.

I am going to have a look at my receipts and see what has been done so far and what is left on your list.

[RBceffy25]

Dude, before you go in and play with the pineapples, fork out for a set of solid subframe mounts and have them fitted at the same time. They are not very expensive (around $80 depending where you go) and this should help with the problem. Get a set from any good local Jap parts store. These are the little, flat, circular, disc looking things in my earlier posts. Like I explained, its the buld up of energy (when the driven wheels start to spin) through the springs, shocks and then bushes that winds up in the soft, rubber bushes then this energy is released in the form of axle tramp. Then once it starts it becomes self generating through this winding up of energy process.

[Harey]

Yeah I have put the pineapple settings to the side because if the best outcome is solid mounting the subframe then why would changing the diff pinion angle help. However I think the next step is to change the lower and upper control arm bushes.

If the subframe mounts were the main issue, surely the pineapples (on all round which is the stiffest setting) would have made some difference. Chris also said on saturday he filled out the diff bushes with some washes and there was no difference.

Chris said this will mean we have replaced or modified every rear end bush.

If the control arm bushes do not change anything then I will get the subframe and diff bushes done.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Harey

[Harey]

Tie Rod end

HICAS something

Adjustable Castor Bushes

Adjustable Camber Bushes

Sway Bar links - Ball Type

Since then have fitted Pineapples in the all round position (supposed to be the firmest way)

And inserted washes in the lower diff bushes.

He is fitting lower and upper control arm bushes at the moment.

tarmac mentioned rear traction arms, do these have another name? have i already replaced those?

[WARLORD]

some good info here.

[Harey]

FIXED FIXED FIXED OMG I CANT BELIEVE ITS FIXED!!!!!!!

It was the Lower Control Arm Bushes!

Launches are silky smooth and if I give it too much its just nice smooth wheelspin yeeehaaaa!!!

Thanks to all that have helped!

I would like to modify Sydney Kids axle tramp possible causes:

- Worn Subframe bushes

- driveshaft angle if car is too low

- incorrectly matched shocks and springs

- Lower Control Arm Bushes

I dont believe tyre type and tyre pressures are the cause, I believe they just change how and when the problem is experienced.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Harey

[HEKT1K]

congrats mate, glad you found the problem. i'll be sure to give mine a good visual inspection soon

[ARTZ]

So how much $$$$$$$ it end up costing...

U said you had checked all the bushes, its usually pretty easy to see if they are worn...Honestly i would have been surprised if tyres caused the problem, but in my experience (as a pauper..lol..) it pays to cancel out the problems that dont cost money first....I never expected you to go out and buy new wheels....

I never forget I spent over 500 dollars at 2 mechanics once trying to find a problem with my gas system,..turned out to be a spark plug lead ,which i figure myself initially but asked a mechanics advice before i changed them and wasted 500$ ...Although i did get half my gas systyem rebuilt it wasnt needed...And neither mechanic nutted out the lead problem...despite all there fancy equipment..So they either knew the problem and were taking me for a ride or didnt have any better idea than i did....

Ive given up on mechanics anyway, better off to spend you money on tools so u can do it yourself if you have half a clue which it seems you do, plus this forums full of people with handy hints hey...(alot better than mine)

Glad you fixed it anyway...its a relieving sense of accomplishment isnt it ..

I see you been checking out Staos new turbos anyways...i want one too... ...

[Harey]

So how much $$$$$$$ it end up costing...

U said you had checked all the bushes, its usually pretty easy to see if they are worn...Honestly i would have been surprised if tyres caused the problem, but in my experience (as a pauper..lol..) it pays to cancel out the problems that dont cost money first....I never expected you to go out and buy new wheels....

I never forget I spent over 500 dollars at 2 mechanics once trying to find a problem with my gas system,..turned out to be a spark plug lead ,which i figure myself initially but asked a mechanics advice before i changed them and wasted 500$ ...Although i did get half my gas systyem rebuilt it wasnt needed...And neither mechanic nutted out the lead problem...despite all there fancy equipment..So they either knew the problem and were taking me for a ride or didnt have any better idea than i did....

Ive given up on mechanics anyway, better off to spend you money on tools so u can do it yourself if you have half a clue which it seems you do, plus this forums full of people with handy hints hey...(alot better than mine)

Glad you fixed it anyway...its a relieving sense of accomplishment isnt it ..

I see you been checking out Staos new turbos anyways...i want one too... ...

Chris checked the lower control arm bushes and could not see anything wrong with them. It was only when I asked him to change them anyway as they were the last link of the chain he said they had a lot of movement.

I spent hours and hours reading about it before I spent any money, that was why I didnt bother with different wheels/tyres as they are not the cause of the problem. As I said before most of the suspension work was to fix up the suspension not to fix axle tramp. Only the pineapples, some washers in the diff bushes lol and the lower and upper control arms were changed in the name of fixing axle tramp. I think I got to the cause fairly quickly.

Yes it did cost a few dollars but suspension is the one area that I dont have much expertise in. I also dont have any equipment or even place to work on my car as I live in an apartment. I do all my own servicing and maintenance and agree that can save you a lot of money. My previous car i put together a custom turbo kit that had a stock engined VP V6 commonwhore running low 12s with an average 60' so I sure do know about doing work myself.

Also, the axle tramp could have very easily broken and axle or a diff or something, it was quite violent and snuck up on you very quickly before you got a chance to get off the throttle. I could have very easily ended up spending lots of $$ and still having axle tramp.

Yeah I have bought a 3076 hi flow turbo off Stao. The compressor is standard but the exhaust housing is 0.82 so trying to get it to look as standard as possible. There was no way I could fit a bigger turbo with the axle tramp, it would broken something straight away.

All in all I am very happy

[RBceffy25]

FIXED FIXED FIXED OMG I CANT BELIEVE ITS FIXED!!!!!!!

It was the Lower Control Arm Bushes!

Launches are silky smooth and if I give it too much its just nice smooth wheelspin yeeehaaaa!!!

Thanks to all that have helped!

I would like to modify Sydney Kids axle tramp possible causes:

- Worn Subframe bushes

- driveshaft angle if car is too low

- incorrectly matched shocks and springs

- Lower Control Arm Bushes

I dont believe tyre type and tyre pressures are the cause, I believe they just change how and when the problem is experienced.

Yea so basiclly everything I tried to explain at the start.

[Harey]

Yea so basiclly everything I tried to explain at the start.

Whats with the attitude? I said thanks, I appreciate your input. I read your opinion as well as many others, I spent hours reading other threads.

Your main advice was constantly to put in alloy subframe bushes which was not required. My issue was completely lower control arm bushes and you never mentioned them.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Harey

[RBceffy25]

Whats with the attitude? I said thanks, I appreciate your input. I read your opinion as well as many others, I spent hours reading other threads.

Your main advice was constantly to put in alloy subframe bushes which was not required. My issue was completely lower control arm bushes and you never mentioned them.

Yea sorry, no harm intended.

Just a bit frustrated that I had explained the tyre thing at the start however no one seemed to be willing to understand what i had explained. All good mate. Just had sand in my vagina

As far as i understand, axle tramp is usually related to the whole rear subframe jumping up and down, smashing all its related components apart. Sound like your issue was directly related to excessive movement in your rear lower control arms, probably due to previous axle-tramping.

I think this may have been a great learning experience for all involved.

In any case good luck with it all and i hope it all works out for you.

Happy modding!

By the way, Let us know what happens when you bolt on your new turbo and start making some more grunt as I would be very interested to see wether or not the problem rears its ugly head again.

[Harey]

Yea sorry, no harm intended.

Just a bit frustrated that I had explained the tyre thing at the start however no one seemed to be willing to understand what i had explained. All good mate. Just had sand in my vagina

As far as i understand, axle tramp is usually related to the whole rear subframe jumping up and down, smashing all its related components apart. Sound like your issue was directly related to excessive movement in your rear lower control arms, probably due to previous axle-tramping.

I think this may have been a great learning experience for all involved.

In any case good luck with it all and i hope it all works out for you.

Happy modding!

By the way, Let us know what happens when you bolt on your new turbo and start making some more grunt as I would be very interested to see wether or not the problem rears its ugly head again.

Thanks mate. Yeah I didnt bother replying to the tyre thing cause I agreed with it and had also read it elsewhere.

Cant wait to get the new turbo on to see if it axle tramps in 3rd bahahaha!! Although I think I may have to wait a while till the bank recovers from its recent rapings.

[RBceffy25]

Thanks mate. Yeah I didnt bother replying to the tyre thing cause I agreed with it and had also read it elsewhere.

Cant wait to get the new turbo on to see if it axle tramps in 3rd bahahaha!! Although I think I may have to wait a while till the bank recovers from its recent rapings.

LOL! I hear ya mate, I hear ya!

[Harey]

Unfortunately, I have to reopen this thread as it seems the axle tramp has not gone, it has only reduced the scenarios that it happens!! GRRR!!!

Only things I have left is:

- diff bushes

- traction arms

I understand diff bushes are quite expensive to replace so have put them down the queue.

[bradsm87]

Unfortunately, I have to reopen this thread as it seems the axle tramp has not gone, it has only reduced the scenarios that it happens!! GRRR!!!

Only things I have left is:

- diff bushes

- traction arms

I understand diff bushes are quite expensive to replace so have put them down the queue.

chop the tops off the rear 2 subframe bushes. This will slightly increase squat and won't shock the wheels down to the road as much wen u dump the clutch.

[Fry_33]

Just a thought but you said it was the lower control arms that improved the issue. Now I figure that the new bushes will be better at doing the job they're supposed to than on old set. The thing that I want to know is what was the alignment before and after changing these? Geometry will play a part in inducing/affecting axle tramp in some way. If the new bushes are adjustable and you now have the alignment good, were you able to achieve the same settings with the old ones?

Diff bushes will take a little while to change but for a suspension workshop it shouldn't take too long with a hoist. The painful part is when you're crawling around on the ground to do this. Maybe change the fluid while you're at it? Changing the 4 subframe bushes is a big job.

Good Luck