Still Got Axle Tramp Arrgghhh!

[HEKT1K]

i think with any reasonably powered RWD car a decent clutch dump will spin the wheels.

my apologies for the confusion, i was imagining something like a 2nd gear roll-on blast. I sure hope you have full traction in that sort of situation!

glad you got everything sorted

[Harey]

i think with any reasonably powered RWD car a decent clutch dump will spin the wheels.

my apologies for the confusion, i was imagining something like a 2nd gear roll-on blast. I sure hope you have full traction in that sort of situation!

glad you got everything sorted

Oh woops yeah full traction in second gear. Only if I redline it and then dump the clutch in second do I get a little bit of wheelspin haha

Not dumping the clutch on launch, but slipping the clutch for a smooth launch.

Yep super happy its just soo smooth!

[yogi000]

congrats dude!

[SargeRX8]

Lets bump up this bitch. Ive been getting this shudder in my car. Tried different shocks as I thought my teins were too stiff(now using bilsteins), the shudder is still there. Ive fitted the solid pineapple style things, the aluminium ones, its still there but is a little less.

Is the diff bush something you can do your self or do you need a press. I can bash the old ones out but don't know about getting the new shit in.

Let me explain my shuddering so you can all see if this is the same type of shudder you get.

When I go to accelerate, slowly, just a normal start stop traffic take off, the car will shudder enough for me to hear the boot lid jud jud jud in the back. If I give the car a little more petrol when taking off it will not do this. I can do a clutch dump in first and wheel spin nicely and the car will not shudder but the gear stick wobbles abit. When at cruising speed in say 5th gear, if I push the gear and get some heavy load on the motor, my rear view mirror will vibrate. If I punch first I can generally take off fine(from a slow start to flooring) then mash it into 2nd, this is when the car will fish tail on the road while shuddering.

I haven't tried anything harsh since fitting in the alloy collars as this shit weather and a heavy foot seems to really smash the petrol.

Another thing to note is that I do have a carbotic button clutch and in actual fact I was told that this clutch will ALWAYS shudder in the car. It was much worse when it was first fitted but after bedding in its alot better.

Another thing to also note is that I get even more shudder when reversing.

Also want to ask, is changing the diff bushes just a diff out or a subframe out(R33 GTST)? Ive removed the diff from my wreck without removing the subframe but no idea if it will go back in. Will solid bushes be better than the other options? Solid won't store energy but will it pass through more vibrations and noise?

Ive got alot of things on my shopping list for my car, what do I need to add to it to rectify this shudder? If I go to Pedders and give them $14 for a suspension check, will they find out where and what to change? I am fairly certain they would be more interested in charging 1k to drop my subframe and change the bushes(every car I have EVER taken to them, they have suggested this, the today tonight show wasn't lieing when they said a $14 checkup can become $1200).

Advise me people. I can do what this thread says but I am sure there are also other aspects which COULD cause shudder and my case seems a little different to others.

Edited November 9, 2011 by SargeRX8

[Daleo]

The shudder you are describing (especially in reverse) sounds clutch related.

The fine vibration under load actually sounds a bit like tailshaft centre bearing to me.

I'd stay away from Pedders if I were you; you might as well hand them your cash and credit cards and walk out, the end result will be much the same.

[Checkbuzz]

+1 Forget Pedders Sarge... find some people that actually know suspension well (most Pedders franchises do not have highly skilled/trained staff)

I'll only make that mistake once...

The clutch does sound like a reasonable suspect considering you were told it would shudder however other things to check would be:

Engine mounts - Replace with NISMO items (40% stiffer) or similar

Gearbox mount - Just replaced mine with a NISMO item ($140 Ebay) 40% stiffer

Diff mount bushes - The front 2 (the usual suspects) can be easily replaced (just did mine with SuperPro poly bushes about $70 for 2) the rear 2 are press fit but aren't as prone to getting slogged out and rarely need replacing (Set of all 4 bushes from UAS for about $140) which is a "subframe out" job

TBH if your car is over 10 years old and has more kw than standard and gets a bit of a hard time (i.e. most SAU Skylines!) these mounts are all likely to be in some state of disrepair

Slogged out gearbox/engine mounts will cause the gear stick to move around when loading and unloading the drive train.

Do you find yourself missing gears some times when you're gunning it? This is another common symptom of engine/gearbox mounts on their way out.

Slogged diff mount bushes will cause axle tramp which in turn will cause your other bushes and mounts to deteriorate quicker

If I was you I'd start at the back and work my way forward replacing these bushes/mounts which would be by far the easiest and cheapest option.

Good luck

Lets bump up this bitch. Ive been getting this shudder in my car. Tried different shocks as I thought my teins were too stiff(now using bilsteins), the shudder is still there. Ive fitted the solid pineapple style things, the aluminium ones, its still there but is a little less.

Is the diff bush something you can do your self or do you need a press. I can bash the old ones out but don't know about getting the new shit in.

Let me explain my shuddering so you can all see if this is the same type of shudder you get.

When I go to accelerate, slowly, just a normal start stop traffic take off, the car will shudder enough for me to hear the boot lid jud jud jud in the back. If I give the car a little more petrol when taking off it will not do this. I can do a clutch dump in first and wheel spin nicely and the car will not shudder but the gear stick wobbles abit. When at cruising speed in say 5th gear, if I push the gear and get some heavy load on the motor, my rear view mirror will vibrate. If I punch first I can generally take off fine(from a slow start to flooring) then mash it into 2nd, this is when the car will fish tail on the road while shuddering.

I haven't tried anything harsh since fitting in the alloy collars as this shit weather and a heavy foot seems to really smash the petrol.

Another thing to note is that I do have a carbotic button clutch and in actual fact I was told that this clutch will ALWAYS shudder in the car. It was much worse when it was first fitted but after bedding in its alot better.

Another thing to also note is that I get even more shudder when reversing.

Also want to ask, is changing the diff bushes just a diff out or a subframe out(R33 GTST)? Ive removed the diff from my wreck without removing the subframe but no idea if it will go back in. Will solid bushes be better than the other options? Solid won't store energy but will it pass through more vibrations and noise?

Ive got alot of things on my shopping list for my car, what do I need to add to it to rectify this shudder? If I go to Pedders and give them $14 for a suspension check, will they find out where and what to change? I am fairly certain they would be more interested in charging 1k to drop my subframe and change the bushes(every car I have EVER taken to them, they have suggested this, the today tonight show wasn't lieing when they said a $14 checkup can become $1200).

Advise me people. I can do what this thread says but I am sure there are also other aspects which COULD cause shudder and my case seems a little different to others.

[SargeRX8]

Judging by the sounds of it, I think I am going to have to replace everything. There is no way in hell I will remove my subframe and NOT change the subframe bushes. I was considering going solid the whole way around the back and from the gearbox forward just use the other stuff.

I can tell you now my gearbox mount is fairly worn, I recall so when I was doing my clutch. Engine mounts might be fine, the engine doesn't kick around that much but when you are in neutral and give it a free rev then back off quickly you can feel the car wobble a little which is an indication of movement.

If I was to do the engine mounts, is this an engine out job or can I lift and support the engine with a crane and change the mounts. How does realigning the engine go? There is certainly room for the mounts to move around before they are tightened and I am guessing even 1mm either side can throw out the balance...

Where is a good place in Sydney to get this kind of work done? Subframe out from any workshop will cost 800+ just on labour so I have been told... How much of this is DIY? Ive got everything except the engine crane but I am sure I can find ways to support the engine if necessary.

[89CAL]

Damn didnt know the rear bush was press fit into the cradle. Have all 4 bushes that i was gonna do whlie the diff was out. if the years are press fit into the cradle then i may not do them after all.....

[skylinecouple]

With me, money is not the issue. So having said that I love a bargain, so ebay is your friend. I have a few posts on here regarding tramp so I can say that even though I have not been totally successful in curing tramp I at least have made a difference.

Let me explain, VIOLENT shudder is what I had. Windscreen cracking wheel hopping pogo sticking tramp is what I had. They all said it was this and that, well.......THEY were wrong.Dream all you like but you are about to go on a journey my friend. I started out with shocks and springs, no change. I moved to nismo gearbox mounts, no change.

Had enough at this point so ripped out the subframe and replaced subframe bushes, upper control arm inner and outter. Diff bushes front and subframe. All urethane. Small change, not as violent.

Now what, oh, so many tyres. Forget that. Neotech Traction rods, well well, now that's better, still there, but softer, hmmmm. OK, so now in the garage are lower control arm bushes, roll center adjusting ball joints, Hicas ball joints, Hardrace engine mounts. The camber arms were in but got them chromed and pulled them back out before I tried a hard launch, sorry. This Christmas week I have off so will put it all in. I would prefer to do it one thing at a time to know what had the biggest effect but time is the killer. So stick around and we'll see.

By the way, don't go the solid subframe bushes, not unless your idea of music is a whining diff.

Edited November 17, 2011 by skylinecouple

[89CAL]

Let me know how the hardrace engine mounts are. thinking about getting some

[urtwhistle]

what type of clutch are you running? I got a 8 puck carbotic with 4000lb pressure plate. now that gives a wicked jud jud jud feeling through the car if I slip the clutch.

[EJD001]

Damn didnt know the rear bush was press fit into the cradle. Have all 4 bushes that i was gonna do whlie the diff was out. if the years are press fit into the cradle then i may not do them after all.....

ive just replaced the 4 diff and 4 subframe mounts with the metal option..

the rear diff ones.. (on my 34) look like a press fit, but are not..they have two small welds on each of them.. have to grind them down first before u can even start to get them out..

[SargeRX8]

what type of clutch are you running? I got a 8 puck carbotic with 4000lb pressure plate. now that gives a wicked jud jud jud feeling through the car if I slip the clutch.

THIS IS EXACTLY THE EFFECT I GET. When riding the clutch to take off, I can hear the boot lid shudder like shit and I am fairly sure my clamp load is close to 4000lb. Its a 5 puk carbotic button clutch. I am either going to start slowly doing an overhaul on bushes, or just leave it as is. Its gotten alot better with the jud juding since I fitted the solid locking bushes on the rear of the subframe but its still evident.

[89CAL]

ive just replaced the 4 diff and 4 subframe mounts with the metal option..

the rear diff ones.. (on my 34) look like a press fit, but are not..they have two small welds on each of them.. have to grind them down first before u can even start to get them out..

ahh sweet, hopefully mine are the same. Otherwise ill find a way to knock them out on the car lol

[dori34]

Let me know how the hardrace engine mounts are. thinking about getting some

better off getting the NISMO engine mounts for the same price, if not cheaper.

has anyone actually compared the two (hardrace mounts V nismo)?

keen to see the difference.

[89CAL]

better off getting the NISMO engine mounts for the same price, if not cheaper.

has anyone actually compared the two (hardrace mounts V nismo)?

keen to see the difference.

Hardrace mounts are way cheaper then NISMO's, thats why I was wondering if they were any good. But If there too harsh I might just go with standard mounts

[skylinecouple]

Just had a talk to a driveline specialist, he said if I have changed the subframe bushes, gearbox mount and lowered the car (yes, all 3) then he needs to check the pinion angle relative to the driveshaft and gearbox. They simply have to be in line. And if my power is twice what the car was built with then I have to allow for sticky tyres and the diff winding up on accelleration. Apparently the diff has to have -2 to -4 deg relative to the driveshaft. When you think about how the alignment is supposed to be perfect between the three items then you have to wander how far out they are from mods. We'll see.

There are several youtube videos on this very subject and how an adjustable arm on the diff can fix axle tramp for good.

[89CAL]

I've just replaced all my Diff mount bushes and the car is now near perfect. Have only done a quick test but it seems to have eliminated the axle tramp completely

I've posted this in another thread but I'll repost the same here. The front bushes are easy enough, just have to drop the diff enough to slide the old ones out and slide the new ones in. The rears are a bit of a pain in the ass. You dont have to push them out if you have the right tools

Heres what I used, Die Grinder and air hack saw:

All I did was use the die grinder to basically "drill" into the rubber then use the air hack saw to cut through the metal parts of the bush. Could probably use the air hack saw to go through all of it, but found it easier to do it this way. Then I used a large flat blade screw driver to peel up the outer steel part of the bush. Be careful not to cut into the subframe or anything.

End result:

And this is what it looked like with the new bushes in:

and the old front bushes:

New bushes installed:

Hope this helps anyway, you can do it without pushing the bush out anyway

[SargeRX8]

Putting the rear ones back in, they just need to be pushed in slightly? Or pressed in? I reckon I can get them out the way I get all my shit out. Fat bolt through it then my old man and me give it a good rip and it comes flying out.

[89CAL]

The new rear one is this one:

Nolethane Rear Diff Bush

The fronts are whiteline, would have liked to have gone whiteline rears but nolethane seem to be the only ones that sell the rear kit. Ah well there easy to fit, just slip in from the rear and diff bolts up. Think I need to put the spacer washers they supply in mine but, it clunks a bit on take off.

I dont really think you'll be able to yank the old bushes out the way you've described. if you pull from the middle steel section your gonna be pulling the rubber section basically which is just going to expand and contract and not really do anything (unless you manage to pull the rubber out of the outer section of the bush. I'm not sure how much room there is in there with the diff out completely, but for me there wasnt really much space to put anything in there to knock the bush out. As far as I can see, the way I did it is the only way I can really see it being possible unless there is more room with the diff completely out to swing a hammer and punch/socket that matches the outer steel section of the bush

short of working out how to use a pressing tool to get it, or pulling the subframe out and doing it on a bench, which would be easier but take alot more time