Which Motorsport Rules Need To Be Followed?

[Marlin]

I'm sure if I was a smarter man I'd understand that Dan! haha

[Roy]

Gee, most here disagree with me, I went for "Absolutely everything, to the letter".

But funnily enough, I'm not that concerned. I prefer to just go as hard as I/we can, beat them on the track, and smile knowingly at the cheaters

Here is the thing, i enjoy driving. I sort of suck, but am ok because i have doen a bit of it. To me i enjoy playing with cars and seeing what makes them quick. If I was good at it and could earn a living from it (I cant) i would build cars. If i had th emoney to build my own cool cars i would (I cant). I say this because the appeal of building the best and quickest car out there is more interesting to me then being the quickets driver out there. I have met through a friend a gentlemen down here in Vic, and as soon as his cars come up for sale they get snapped up....they know his cars are quick and built amazingly well. I think thats cool that in certain circles thats how his name is regarded.

So sounds like a wanker, but i like the engineering challenge of building a quick car. No rule book that i can read covers all things. I read the tarmac rally regs and i have found holes that i think would allow me to build a pretty cool car, and quick. So agree to the extent that following the rules to the letter, but that means it has to be written. If its not written then a few liberties can be taken, provided its not blatantly against the spirit of competition (a hard thing to define/defend)

[gfunkk]

i think that a lot of the rules for Targa and even CAMS are a bit gay and put me off doing that sort of motorsport, i just want to build my car the way i want then go do awesome things with it

[Marlin]

If that were allowed there'd be dead people scattered all over the countryside.

Too many people attempt to make up for lack of talent by usings overloads of horsepower.

Doesn't really gel with mostly non-professional crews and solid gum trees at the roadside.

[Roy]

Meh, i have tasted armco, wasnt bad, even better when you mix it with some rubber from a tyre wall. I wouldnt even need a tab of senokot if only trees got in my way!

But, agree...i see Group Nc Escorts runing around and personally think a 150hp Escort would be more my cup of tea. I crap myself when i see some of the GTRs etc topping 200+ on sections of road !

[gfunkk]

If that were allowed there'd be dead people scattered all over the countryside.

if they were allowed eric bana wouldnt have crashed

he had like 800hp but had to roll on stock suspension

but yeah im just a kid who doesnt know all the rules so dont waste time arguing with me

[Marlin]

Does that mean I cannot reply? lol

Eric's car was actually very modified in the suspension side of things, much closer to a V8 Supercar than an XB coupe.

Don't take everything said on "Love the Beast" as gospel.

And FWIW, no amount of suspension tech was keeping him out of the trees, he was going in regardless.

Travelling perhaps 30klm/h less would have helped The camera doesn't show just how steep the descent is where he came off.

[gfunkk]

thanks for clearing that up, in the movie he blames the suspension

[NickR33]

he also says 600hp not 800

[Duncan]

i think that a lot of the rules for Targa and even CAMS are a bit gay and put me off doing that sort of motorsport, i just want to build my car the way i want then go do awesome things with it

like I said, I thought more people would have this point of view. AASA and Irace are for you....just run wot you brung

[badhairdave]

Interesting topic.

I also tend to lean to the creative interpretation of rules line from a general interest/spectator point of view as the whole thinking outside the square thing interests me, but personally in that situation i would want to be certain that everything was compliant with no shadow of a doubt before even turning up. f**k entering a competitive event with cost to yourself (or sponsors) to be booted at the end, i'd be gutted and it would probably put me off future events.

The old TWR volvo station wagon is a good example of creative interpretation. The rule read something along the lines of must use stock head casting (which in the volvos case was junk for racing as the valve angle was wrong and there was no room for decent lift cams etc etc) so they milled the top of the head off and manufactured a bunch of new bolt on cam carriers and inserts that allowed them to get the lift they wanted and position the cam where they wanted and angle the valve how they wanted.

I think it cost them something ridiculous like 4 times as much to mod the stock head than it would have to make a new casting.

[LSX-438]

Interesting topic.

I also tend to lean to the creative interpretation of rules line from a general interest/spectator point of view as the whole thinking outside the square thing interests me, but personally in that situation i would want to be certain that everything was compliant with no shadow of a doubt before even turning up. f**k entering a competitive event with cost to yourself (or sponsors) to be booted at the end, i'd be gutted and it would probably put me off future events.

The old TWR volvo station wagon is a good example of creative interpretation. The rule read something along the lines of must use stock head casting (which in the volvos case was junk for racing as the valve angle was wrong and there was no room for decent lift cams etc etc) so they milled the top of the head off and manufactured a bunch of new bolt on cam carriers and inserts that allowed them to get the lift they wanted and position the cam where they wanted and angle the valve how they wanted.

I think it cost them something ridiculous like 4 times as much to mod the stock head than it would have to make a new casting.

Good example. Motorsport is literally filled with examples along similar lines, most of which we never get to hear about. It happens all the time i am sure. Heard a good example regarding radiators (generating downforce believe it or not!) the other day but that's all i should say

[NZM.031]

i voted open slather.... but thats because i have no incliniation to race or win or compete... like Roy said... i spend alot more time working on the car than driving the car.. and thats by choice because i enjoy it, i want to spend my friday nights making stuff and moving things around to make it better...

i am making a track car because i cant drive the car how i want to drive it, on the road... and i cant do the modifications i want and keep it legal on the road... so im trying to do the right thing and take it to the track.

i think if you make the decision and spend the coin to make a dedicated track car but have to stick to a set of strict and hard to understand regulations... then whats the point?? you mayswell keep your car road legal and drive it on a sunday afternoon... legal cars are no fun.. especially to us modifying types.

the fun in having a track car is having that balls out, no nonsense, no restrictions, no bull shit, full blown, lumpy ass, noisy, hunk of metal that only has one purpose in life.... to go fast!

but now im worried that even though i wont be going to an event to compete and win... aka, hillclimbs or speed events (not door to door racing).. i may be turned away for having custom this and custom that, and a different engine, etc. etc.. id hate to spend hours making custom components to improve the cars handling for my own enjoyment, and have someone say, "no, that doesnt conform with regulations, you cant run your car"

i think thats why superlap/time attack and drift is getting so popular... there are very few restrictions, unlimited engine and suspension mods.. and the best driver in the best built car will take the trophy... anyone can have a go... whether you spend a motza... or whether your very clever in the parts you use and the things you do... its exciting to watch, and makes me want to go in it.

i understand restrictions are in place to give lesser cars a chance and so the better cars dont dominate... but i think thats backwards... i think those that have made a good car should not be punished so that those that havent can keep up..

cheers

Linton

[zebra]

i understand restrictions are in place to give lesser cars a chance and so the better cars dont dominate... but i think thats backwards... i think those that have made a good car should not be punished so that those that havent can keep up..

cheers

Linton

I disagree, Most of the rules are there to a) keep the racing interesting and b) To stop people spending the same amount as a small nation every round.

What hope would my car have of winning with a budget of Nil against Bill gates in his NASA modified 2009 Mclaren F1 car in a local sprint series.

Pottering around at the back of the field with no chance of making the top 10 no matter how good of a driver you are, because those guys have squillions of dollars and you dont doesnt sound like fun.

Hence the reason there are 150 odd sport sedans sitting in sheds gathering dust around aus.

[NZM.031]

yeh i understand that.. and i do agree... but there are many cars out there that have had a small nation spent on them.. but arent necessarily fast... having a big dollar engine with a gazillion bhp isnt a nececelery a recipe for a fast race car.

and how would you feel... if your car with its great chassis and suspension layout, designed from the factory for performance driving... is pottering around at the back of the pack because you have a hairdryer on your engine and therefore are forced to have an inlet restrictor... because someone who wants to race a dinosaur family car cant keep up...

i dont think that is fair or interesting... but thats just me

[Duncan]

not just you...that's there are SFA turbo cars in IPRA. I don't think they will ever understand how much damage they have done to their category.

eg NSW state supersprint from today: 11 of the top 20 cars were turboed, and if you exclude sports sedans and open wheelers, every single tin top in the top 20 was turboed.

[Targa Tom]

Its a no brainer for me... run anything that will pass post race inspection (read thorough inc pull down) for the class rules in play.

If you go the creative route - make sure your story will convince a panel of stewards and maybe another panel at later appeal that you are correct.

It does not matter what you do with rules, not all will be happy.... So build the car that suits the rules, not the one that looks best in your forum sig.

Tugga for instance had the 2010 tyre rule in place for 2009, but then reverted back on the eve of the event... accusing those who turned up with 6 tyres as smart arses.

IMO those who hadnt got the reading correct threw the teddie out of the cot.

It was no surprise to me that it was back to 6 tyre rule for 2010, after all the non rule readers had time to regroup.

TT

[Burgz32]

I say open slather, let's head the same way the UK and NZ run, if you wanna win then play by the rule's or

you won't pass post event scruttinering, but if ya don't care about gold plated palstic, and you sign the paper

work that's state's you won't sue the event or anyone that run's the event, then by all mean's run your 600 HP,

stroker, nitrous feed bad boy just don't whinge when you and ya mate get spread all over the country side..

and these place's get 100-150 entry's at club level....

[GTR-N1]

One interesting example about AASA rally rules. While you can now change many things including injectors, you cannot change AFMs. Standard AFMs hit max voltage at around 300kw.

But you can change to a computer that does not require AFMs which gets around that rule.

I voted for #3 until I saw this ^^^. I was wondering what "Creatively" really meant and how far you could take it.

[sammychanchan]

I voted for the 'Creative' option. Porsche made racing history with cars that where very loosley based around the rules, such as the 935's. He who interprets the rules the best gains the biggest advantage, and I see no issue with that. All competetiors still theoretically have the same options available to them (based on resources of course), so I don;t think it's wrong to reward intelligence and ingenuity.

As for reliability modifications, unless it is previously agreed to or explicitly listed in the rule books (and cannot be creatively interpreted), then I don't think they should be automatically allowed. As Troy has said in racing reliability is a major factor, and thus can be a great advantage whether it affects outright pace or not.

agreed