Building A Na Sr To Run A Turbo

[1208]

I'm thinking about building my sr20de to run a turbo. If I get a striker kit,forged pistons and rods, valve springs, solid lifters and 272 cams etc, is it worth keeping my sr20de block and head and just replacing evrything or geta red top or something?

Just seeing what everyone thinks and if anyone has done it if it's worth it

I heard you need to drill and tap oil lines In the block (which a machine shop could easily do when getting the block bored and sleeved) and need a new oil pump and some modifications to the sump aswelll

[GTScotT]

depending on what you want, it is alot easier than whatever you just mentioned.

if your aim is sub 200rwkw, you can do the following.

-OEM SR20DET manifold and turbo, with bolt on exhaust from wherever

-Any regular intercooler kit

-T piece fitting for oil pressure sender and braided oil line to length

-water lines picked up from throttlebody

-oil return best tapped into block at factory location (see below) fittings with generic kit you get with the water and your braided fitting

-managment (ecu and injectors, stock afm reads the same as all other sr20 afms)

With the oil return, what you need to do is, you need to support the motor and remove the cross member and upper+lower sump (pan and upper alloy section). then you need to drill and tap the oil return to its factory location and make sure you dont get any fillings fly out into the motor anywhere (the whole point of taking the sump off).

If even 1 word of the above is in the slightest confusing, you should NOT attempt this modification.

Short of this, a redtop half cut dropped in is an excellent idea.

[fletch rb30]

+1 what he said!

I did exactly the same to a fwd sr20. used u13 sr20det ecu/loom/turbo/front mount etc.

i got a friend to hold the air duster gun on one of the rocker cover vents to pressurise the motor and drilled the oil return and tapped to 1/2 bsp. the air blew the filings out no sweat.

7psi and it was great. guy i sold it to was running 12psi for months before it cracked a piston

[STATUS]

Its up to you we have around 6 or 7 std NA + T engines making around the 250rwkw mark reliably. The only downside to the NA block is lack of oil squirter's if you are after big horsepower, just source a turbo block and use the rest of the NA gear.

[Granthem]

I also have seen a standard NA SR20 withstand 17psi of S14T28 rammed into it with no dramas at all.

[1208]

My plan was to buy a my mates hks high mount and power enterprise pe1420 set up and just get a greedy plenum, and either do cams, valve springs etc, and run it until it blows up and then get forged pistons rods and maybe even stroke it to 2.2.

Are de blocks the same as det blocks? Would it be possible to make 250+ rwkw from a de block?

[Cowboy1600]

SR20de+t has been done before many times, and done very successfully, but if you are going to go to so much effort and expense, surely just picking yourself up an SR20DET ready to go would be a better option?

[STATUS]

My plan was to buy a my mates hks high mount and power enterprise pe1420 set up and just get a greedy plenum, and either do cams, valve springs etc, and run it until it blows up and then get forged pistons rods and maybe even stroke it to 2.2.

Are de blocks the same as det blocks? Would it be possible to make 250+ rwkw from a de block?

there is no oil outlet for the turbo and no oil squirters in the block. Thats the only difference. I would not waste a 2.2 kit on a de block as det blocks are cheap like 100 odd dollars (way cheaper than modding the de block)

[clip14]

the sr20 club in the states have pushed 380kw on a stock block sr20de - not for track work though. several people in new zealand run de+t setups with standard blocks to near 300rwkw in drift cars (i.e. hard punishment).

get a safe tune along with adequate fueling, lubrication and cooling, and you can run high numbers reliably. there is nothing inherently weak about the de block and internals. the things which will kill a de block will kill a det block as well (detonation, excessive heat, over-rev). det or forged internals will just handle slightly more detonation/heat/over-rev before failure

[1208]

I'd get a det if it was easy but I live near mackay and there isn't many around. And getting one from down south would be a bit of a headache. So was jus seeing if modding a de would be possible.

Would the lack of oil squirterseffect it much?

And would some work to the headelimate over revving?

[GTScotT]

its essentially the same motor mate, the only thing that really changes for you is the lack of oil squirters. the oil feed is no biggie.

the oil squirters ARE something you want tho, for your application. they definitely will make the motor more reliable. considering you are talking about whacking big turbos on and stroking the thing.

over revving the thing makes no difference whether its de or det, just dont do it.

[clip14]

rods fail in 3 ways

1. compression failure - this is rare as short beams are strong in compression. the only way you can fail in this way is if you get pre-ignition, where excessive heat causes the combustion charge to ignite and undergo full combustion prior to the piston reaching top dead centre TDC. this means the piston/rod assembly is moving upwards and the charge ignites to push against it. this is why you need to keep the heat down (lean mixture/poor tuning can cause excessive heat and pre-ignition, also detonation *can* lead to pre-ignition). keep your timing and boost pressures reasonable (i.e. stay within the efficient compression ratios of your turbocharger), and ensure you have enough fuel.

2. tension failure - this is due to over revving. rods and small end pins are rated to a certain strength and this dictates the maximum rotating speed of the assembly. if the engine revs too fast, the piston gathers up too much momentum traveling up (or down) and the rod fails in tension. you can avoid this by ensuring you dont miss gears, and not moving your limiter. if you're going to spend a lot of time on the limiter, you might want to consider lowering your rev limit.

3. bearing failure - when the big end bearing (usually) fails and the rod grips around the crank. keeping the engine well lubricated - enough oil in the engine, baffled and extended sump if you pull excessive corner, braking or launch g's, and keeping the oil within operating temps will help avoid bearing failure. also proper engine assembly and possible upgraded bearings if in a race application. the two other failure modes can also cause bearing failure. the weakest link in any system will fail first. if the rod does not fail in pre-ignition or over-rev, the additional stress placed on the bearing could cause bearing failure.

like all engine failures, a risk factor is manufacturing error and fatigue related failure. a small imperfection in a rod can result in exponential crack growth in a high stress environment. thats why people shot peen standard internals to ensure that the surfaces are smooth and that there are no micro cracks which could grow under high stress and cyclic loading.

oil squirters throw oil onto the bottom of the piston to aid in cooling. many, many race cars do not run oil squirters. they are not essential for a high hp, high abuse engine. a decent oil cooler and a good oil circulation system (upgraded pump if youre getting serious) along with sufficient fuel and cooling of the intake charge do a lot more to keep engine temps down than oil squirters. of course every factor helps so if you have oil squirters, then most applications will keep them (apart from very specialised builds where the additional complexity is not worth the advantages).

sorry for the long post.

[1208]

No thank you mate you explained a lot there. What are some decent fuel pumps? And would a det oil pump be ebough to cope?

Sorry about all the questions but I'm new to all this stuff

[clip14]

decent brand name fuel pumps include Bosch 044, Walbro 255lph. Make sure you get the genuine items though, there are some fake Walbro pumps floating about for sale which don't match the performance requirements.

Some people advise using second hand pumps from 300zx TT and GTR's, but fueling is such an important part of any system, its silly to save a hundred bucks to pick up a second hand pump. a new genuine Walbro 255 should run you less than 200.

Provided there arent any unforseen failures, a stock DE or DET oil pump should be able to handle a lot of power and be quite reliable. That being said, if you sink enough money into your engine that you want to make sure it lasts, or if you put the car through a lot of abuse, you want to at least get the oil pump checked out, and/or reconditioned. If you lose oil pressure for just a second while under full abuse, any engine, no matter how well built will be destroyed. Thats why you see people drop 2k+ on a tomei or jun oil pump in their high hp track cars.

[STATUS]

Provided there arent any unforseen failures, a stock DE or DET oil pump should be able to handle a lot of power and be quite reliable. That being said, if you sink enough money into your engine that you want to make sure it lasts, or if you put the car through a lot of abuse, you want to at least get the oil pump checked out, and/or reconditioned. If you lose oil pressure for just a second while under full abuse, any engine, no matter how well built will be destroyed. Thats why you see people drop 2k+ on a tomei or jun oil pump in their high hp track cars.

DE and DET pumps are the same, tomei and jun dont make sr oil pumps, the only way to upgrade is use a s15 or GTir item but SR's dont suffer oil pump issues like RB's.

I have NEVER had an oil pump fail and the only car ive seen one fail was running a GFB solid crank pulley. those gfb pulleys kill oil pumps.

even our big dollar SR builds run s15 pumps no more ($90 from nissan for the rotor set). The GTiR pump mod is a waste of time and uneeded, the SR's weakness is RPM due to the rocker and lifter design not oil pressure etc.. the revs dropped from 7600 in s13 to 7200 in s14 for this very reason. Upgrade the rockers and run solid lifters (with correctly ramping cams) and 9000rpm is achievable.

[discopotato03]

Or be a pathfinder and put a KA24 in and turbocharge that , may be long in the stroke but they are long in the rod and use a chain driven cam lobe on bucket valve train . Yes and an iron block too . Std fitment in USDM S13 (SOHC) S14 (DOHC 16v) .

Power delivery is said to be like a good SR20DET pulled down 600 revs .

Don't need to rev when you can't get traction in the mid range , cheers A .

[clip14]

DE and DET pumps are the same, tomei and jun dont make sr oil pumps, the only way to upgrade is use a s15 or GTir item but SR's dont suffer oil pump issues like RB's.

I have NEVER had an oil pump fail and the only car ive seen one fail was running a GFB solid crank pulley. those gfb pulleys kill oil pumps.

even our big dollar SR builds run s15 pumps no more ($90 from nissan for the rotor set). The GTiR pump mod is a waste of time and uneeded, the SR's weakness is RPM due to the rocker and lifter design not oil pressure etc.. the revs dropped from 7600 in s13 to 7200 in s14 for this very reason. Upgrade the rockers and run solid lifters (with correctly ramping cams) and 9000rpm is achievable.

oh yep, sorry about that, i was referring to rb26 high hp builds cheers

Edited May 13, 2010 by clip14

[Cowboy1600]

I reckon you'll find sourcing an SR20-DET block or complete engine probably easier than you expect.

Heck, find one in Melb or Sydney and I'll help you arrange reliable and affordable transport to Mackay.

[1208]

One of my mates just bought some Brian crower 272 cams, valve springs and retainers but is using standard lifters. I heard the hla's sometimes callapse though, so Is it worth getting solid lifters as well? I am thinking about getting the same cams springs and retainers because they are cheap from America

[STATUS]

One of my mates just bought some Brian crower 272 cams, valve springs and retainers but is using standard lifters. I heard the hla's sometimes callapse though, so Is it worth getting solid lifters as well? I am thinking about getting the same cams springs and retainers because they are cheap from America

you can get the equivalent gear from camtech here in aus for the same money.