The Import Industry

[Guest]

One reason and a main reason as to the age of vehicles and that is EMISSIONS........... F@#K even Ford had exemption from meeting ADR 79 to save jobs.

Local car maker Ford has been let off tough new vehicle emissions standards to save jobs.The Federal Government has backed down from its strict emissions standards to protect Ford Australia from having to cut jobs.The Victorian-based manufacturer – one of only three remaining local car makers - has been given an exemption from the new, stricter emissions regulations.

A lot of people making comment still don't understand as to what is involved along with the cost, so again due to the tight arse little F@#KERS not paying a correct price for compliance it stops at least a few workshops putting money aside to cover ADR 79 testing which starts at $20,000 to $30,000.

I would love to know if any of the people making comments actually personally put money towards getting these vehicles approved, bringing in a test car for free compliance doesn't count, I mean having a car sit around for 6 to 12 months, pay the dollars for emission testing, evidence packs, ISO accreditation and so on.

(Kristian you are exempt due to the hours and effort put into getting the cars on the SEVS schedule).

I can go on as tight arse little F@#KERS isn't the only reason but it falls on deaf ears.

[mxfly]

A lot of people making comment still don't understand as to what is involved along with the cost, so again due to the tight arse little F@#KERS not paying a correct price for compliance it stops at least a few workshops putting money aside to cover ADR 79 testing which starts at $20,000 to $30,000.

That's spot on there. As someone who works for a raws, I have asked my boss before, "why don't you bring in this or that" and his simple answer is costs. If that ridiculous 25k fee just to have the car test (and mind you, not necessarily PASS as well) for emissions was more realistic, we would certainly see more import variants on our roads today.

[Import Monster]

So many in the industry are jealous of their little kingdoms, they can't see the bigger picture or work together to any real extent.

Perfect example is, what I shall name "Example vehicle A"

example vehicle A gains SEVS approval.

Workshop 1 does the hard yards, spends the money to get a test example vehicle A through the process and BAM - they hold compliance now for example vehicle A, a car that no one else holds compliance for. And they've paid a fortune for it too, as there's no evidence pack to buy off someone else, so they are doing it from scratch.

So what do they do?

They screw the maximum dollars out of the plates for as long as they can, til workshop 2 comes along and does the same car. Double the availability of plates does NOT guarantee double the amount of cars to comply. Invariably workshop 2 then pegs their compliance a few hundred bucks lower than workshop A. People flock to workshop B because they're not cynically trying to cash in like workshop A clearly were, ( end sarcasm) when they had exclusivity on that vehicle.

Then we've got two shops, each with an evidence pack they can sell on... so they do so, meaning it's cheaper for the next lot of shops as they're not flying blind, they have the evidence all laid out in front of them.

So for six months or so, these two go along merrily making max bucks on their plates until bam.

Workshop c,d,e,f and g all get their approvals.

Then compliance goes from $3500 to $2500 in literally a month.

So what has happened here? Has a pool of extra customers miraculously come into existence to give all of these workshops the jobs needed to recoup what they spent within the first 12 months of doing their plates?

Of course not. Small country, niche industry = very finite pool of customers. All workshop c through g have done is given the customers more choice. Before you know it, compliance is $2k because customers now are few and far between and are shopping around for prices.

Then of course, you get the shops who want to maintain their profit margins, while cutting the other guys out of the pictures and BAM. Corners get cut.

Customers fault? Of course it's not. Brokers fault? Of course it's not. Fault of human nature? Of course it is. It's the industry going the dog eat dog route, all's fair in love and war til someone loses a car at regency because the compliance shop let the car out with mods it shouldn't have had.

Solution?

Make the compliance associations more than just a name and a way of sharing a degas license.

Workshop a, b and c share costs to comply car a, b and c. Then three workshops have access to three plates without having to go through the testing process 3 different times for the same car (meaning 3 evidence packs instead of 9). Each shop adds one car and bam. Then you put in place trading schemes with other groups of RAWS who have the plates that these guys don't get. All cars get covered and the money is not spent 10's of times over and over to do evidence for the one model.

The major stumbling block? Trust is required to make this happen. But if it did happen, there'd be no need for workshops to try to price each other out. Far be it for me to suggest price fixing, as clearly that's illegal. But if they weren't all battling to pick up that one client who is shopping around (as there would be the one shop complying that car, instead of 3) then there'd be no need to cut the price to the bone to win the business.

Perfect example of the above is the E51 El Grand. First one I imported for a client was near $4k in compliance. Now it's a smidge over $2500. Has it got cheaper to comply this car? No. Have I done anything to drive the price down? No.

So why has the price dropped so dramatically in 12 months?

Right now there's about 24 RAWS Auswide with the E51 El Grand on their books.

So when a dealer wants to carry stock of the El Grand on his lot and has 3 or 4 at Port in Japan... who is he gonna go to for compliance? It sure isn't going to be the guy asking a grand more than the rest. When a broker wants to sign up a client to import a car for them, yet he's quoting $400 more than the other broker for compliance of the same car - what's he going to do? Ask his preferred company to price match, or switch. That's not the brokers fault, he needs to make a living and does so by importing cars for his clients. If they go elsewhere, because they'll save $400 on compliance.. well it's a simple equation to complete. If he's not signing people up, he's not making money. Is he going to fail to pay his mortgage so he can take a stand against cheap compliance? yeah, no.

Change needs to come from within, Confucious say.

And so I think customers busting your balls for cheaper compliance is symptomatic of the overall direction of the industry, rather than being the causal factor. In my humble opinion

[NISSAN GTR]

Two different kettles of fish - your R32 would have been imported under the old 15 year rule, that's why it needed a full pit inspection. The R34 will be imported under RAWS, no such problems, in fact the workshop that does them in SA will run it through Regency for you.

Does that mean i have to take the R34 GTR from interstate through a compliance shop in S.A and pay 3k again , is that what you mean by RAW .

Thats what i did with my R32 ?

[mxfly]

No need to pay 3k again. You will need to take the R34 through the "pits" in your state.

[Guest]

So many in the industry are jealous of their little kingdoms, they can't see the bigger picture or work together to any real extent.

A very true point but two factors come into play, human nature and car dealers.

Of course not. Small country, niche industry = very finite pool of customers. All workshop c through g have done is given the customers more choice. Before you know it, compliance is $2k because customers now are few and far between and are shopping around for prices.

Dropping prices hasnt changed the amount of jobs people are getting or has it made certain workshops workload sky rocket, the market is flooded and dropping $500 to $1,000 isnt going to make people buy a car 12 months early but they haven't worked that one out yet.

Customers fault? Of course it's not. Brokers fault? Of course it's not. Fault of human nature? Of course it is. It's the industry going the dog eat dog route, all's fair in love and war til someone loses a car at regency because the compliance shop let the car out with mods it shouldn't have had.

Customer is the one who loses out in the long run, Brokers at fault yes, they play workshop against workshop (don't say it doesn't happen) plus they get kick backs from certain workshops be it cash or free plates (that no one can say doesn't F@#KING happen). Industry at fault yes, for being one eyed greedy F@#KERS not having the balls to stand there ground or do something about the problems from price cutting aside from doing it them self.

The people who stood there ground have bailed out as they have a conscience or others don't plate cars as it isn't an income more of a "what the hell we may as well do it" (yes they are out there).

If brokers aren't part of the problem they should only deal with workshops who comply the cars correctly and they should abide to state licensing requirements.

So why has the price dropped so dramatically in 12 months?

The market has flooded and the workshops not dependant on just plating cars don't give a shit because they are just biding there time for more to close down, (I know of two this week) then wait for the market to stabilise and become profitable.

The days of a business just plating cars for various customers will be gone sometime next year unless they do the work correctly, the ball has more then started rolling on the cure for this issue and results are already appearing.

When proving you are guilty ISO system or not wont save the workshops and Plausible Deniability isn't an excuse for others involved.

[Mr Eps]

jesus guys looks like i awoke a sleeping giant here

...all i was saying is i want someone to import me a mark X with a supercharged 3.5ltr V6

geez!!!

[Chris Rogers]

thing being with SOME of these guys is they have jumped ship to a different variety of import - USDM. now I see that going the same way as JDM if they stay in things and run it the same way as its been run.

places like performaxx , autosmith and a few others local to me ahve been doing hte right things for years. I dare say that once the price drops like it did with JDM then this market will also be FARKED!

[Guest]

jesus guys looks like i awoke a sleeping giant here

...all i was saying is i want someone to import me a mark X with a supercharged 3.5ltr V6

geez!!!

Set up a workshop and import one, it isn't hard, emissions is easy, doesn't cost much money and you can be the one who gets the industry back to being "dynamic and innovative".

[Mr Eps]

did you know that i think you're a smug, pessimistic, angry and unpleasant person to deal with?

you're often rude to people on here and nobody says anything. i'm just letting you know... that's how i feel about you.

no - i'm not thinking that you like ME either, i don't expect you to.. and i'm sorry that i have formed that opinon - but perhaps try being nice to people once every so often and just relaxing

[xALmoN]

well rowan, if you do wanna set up a workshop, and is looking for investors, look my way =D

[xscape237]

This topic has been nagging me all day. I just have two points to express:

1. We are lucky that DOTARS allow us to have an import scheme at all! By "we", i mean both the consumer and also the various people who are employed and/or making money through the process.

2. The compliance plate has become nothing more than a commodity item, whether you like it or not. When bananas were $10 per kg, people just ate apples instead. Life goes on. TV killed the radio star. You get the idea.

[mxfly]

^^ Hell yeah. If there were no imports, I'd probably be driving bogan cars, hahaha.

[Chris Rogers]

^^ Hell yeah. If there were no imports, I'd probably be driving bogan cars, hahaha.

and if there were no imports what would the goose neck horse trailer owners tow with ??

(there is more to this than JDM sports cars which are dying a slow death here anyway.)

[xALmoN]

if there were no jdm sports cars, i'd be riding a motorcycle.

[tranman]

To be quite frank, its just economics. Its frustrating to hear some of the comments that have been made without understanding how markets work. Sellers (dealers/compliance workshops) blaming consumers? Please.... Since when do sellers need protection from buyers? Unless buyers for some strange reason wanted to boycott the industry by acting like a union, sellers need to harden up. Hearing anecdotes of sellers wanting to do the right thing but were 'forced' to accept work and cut corners?...No, if sellers decide to do that then they are harming their integrity not to mention breaking the law/regulations in the process.

From the posts I've read, some of the issues brought to light revolve around the government's ineffectiveness to regulate the policies that they have put in place. As a result you get the f*ckheads SELLERS in the market exploiting them, not the buyers. The blame chain if you will therefore looks like this: Government regulatory authorities-fail >industry suppliers-fail> and then...and i mean a small then, car buyers in the market knowingly accepting illegal goods.

The buyer should under no circumstances get the same blame apportioned to them as it is always the seller acting outside of governmnt rules/regs that will be culpable. A buyer who pays for pirated DVD's and does so knowingly isn't (and rightfully so) -isn't as critical as the seller distributing them. This is the same with drug dealers verus drug users. The same rings true for those car buyers knowingly getting their cars complied sub-standard, and the workshops cutting the corners, breaking the law and then justifying it by saying its the fault of the buyer and hence they are contributing to the demise of the industry. BULLSHIT

[Import Monster]

To be quite frank, its just economics. Its frustrating to hear some of the comments that have been made without understanding how markets work. Sellers (dealers/compliance workshops) blaming consumers? Please.... Since when do sellers need protection from buyers? Unless buyers for some strange reason wanted to boycott the industry by acting like a union, sellers need to harden up. Hearing anecdotes of sellers wanting to do the right thing but were 'forced' to accept work and cut corners?...No, if sellers decide to do that then they are harming their integrity not to mention breaking the law/regulations in the process.

From the posts I've read, some of the issues brought to light revolve around the government's ineffectiveness to regulate the policies that they have put in place. As a result you get the f*ckheads SELLERS in the market exploiting them, not the buyers. The blame chain if you will therefore looks like this: Government regulatory authorities-fail >industry suppliers-fail> and then...and i mean a small then, car buyers in the market knowingly accepting illegal goods.

The buyer should under no circumstances get the same blame apportioned to them as it is always the seller acting outside of governmnt rules/regs that will be culpable. A buyer who pays for pirated DVD's and does so knowingly isn't (and rightfully so) -isn't as critical as the seller distributing them. This is the same with drug dealers verus drug users. The same rings true for those car buyers knowingly getting their cars complied sub-standard, and the workshops cutting the corners, breaking the law and then justifying it by saying its the fault of the buyer and hence they are contributing to the demise of the industry. BULLSHIT

*applause*

nicely said mate.

[Iron Chef]

Well said tranman!

The current state of play, we have:

- Poorly-worded SEVS legislation which is inconsistently enforced by DoTaRS (they ask for RAWS to have de-reg papers but don't bother to cross-check the kms on IVIRs against the readings on the de-reg??)

- Consumers who would rather break the law and keep their aftermarket parts, who also want to pay as little as possible

- Greedy RAWS (some not all) who are prepared to also break the law in order to get a bigger slice of the market and make more money.

To fix it:

- SEVS needs to be overhauled, legislation and policies concentrate on the big issues rather than mucking around with trivialities

- Consumers need to pay more for their cars and accept that they'll get them stock standard

- Shonky RAWS need to be put out of business.

See? Simple! lol

[Mr Eps]

from a consumer point of view however (as in - buyer and driver of cars)

i see a car at auction - i want that car. that's the car i want. that's the car i buy.

i may buy it because it has a bodykit. i may buy it because it has rims. i may buy it because it's riding on tein superstreet coilovers. i may but it because it's had a really cool paint job.

from OUR perspective.. the car buyers perspective... we're paying for our car.

then paying FOB costs

then ~a grand brokerage

then ~1.5 grand shipping

then taxes, then GST, then customs, then warfage, then inspection, then steamcleaning, then towing, then compliance, then tyres, then registration,

bla bla bla etc etc etc..

after waiting 3++ months to "get" the car I bought.. (as in - the car in the auction photo with the bodykit and the shiny mag rimz)

...I for one WANT that stuff. i WANT my rims. i WANT my coilovers. i WANT my bodykit.

i don't WANT a stock standard from factory car. and why the hell WOULD i??

from watching this thread since i started it - the common issue between all sides of the dice are the same.. it's the ever shifting goal posts from the gubberment.

i mean, the government abolished the 15 year rule (fair enough) and started the SEVS system... after a few years, that's picked up - we now have a wide array of cars that we can pick from... things are great now!!!

so - why not change the pre-88 rule on a small minority of hot rodders and make it impossible for them to follow their hobbies.. let's make THEM suffer.. i remember as a kid going to the beach with my dad and just marvelling at the hotrods on the beach. the new generation of kids won't get to see them.. because the government "felt like" putting a stop to it.

or - personal import laws - the 20 or so people who actually import a car from overseas a year are made to suffer now because the government "felt like" changing that rule, too.. making it hard for that 20 people who are doing it to make money.. but making it a MASSIVE headache for the guy bringing his NSX-R over as a personal car..

consumers are definitely not the ones to blame however. we don't always WANT stock standard cars. why do the government turn people into criminals by changing the law as they see fit?

think about it - a year ago.. you were considered a hot rod enthusiast.. you coordinate hot rod events - there are kids with leukemia who have a huge smile on their face because you took them for a drive in a hot rod as a fundraising event. you and your hot rod club donate to charity. you don't drop skids. you're a mature guy with a passion for chromed out modelT fords...

aaaaaaaaaaaaand one day dotars make it so that your hobby is now outlawed. just cos thye kinda just felt like f**king with your shit for a bit.

yet we're here in this thread blaming each other - even though to function we NEED each other???? that's just ludicrous.

Tranman... good post by the way

[ModaFUR]

Good read