E85 Fuel Setup

[huddy]

Hey guys,

been reading through motorsport section and this section and I just cannot seem to find exactly what i'm after re: E85 and fuel setups.

I was planning on running 2 x external pumps, but after reading, it may be simpler to run 1.

My setup is - RB26/30, gt3076r 0.82 ext gate on E85 - hoping for between 330 - 360rwkw

I have:

walbro intank pump as pickup/feed pump, 3 L surge tank, 1 x external 044, nismo fpr, 1000cc injectors - I was wondering if this will be sufficient? Or if I will need 2 x externals (due to E85).

***ALSO***

How does the external pumps get wired up? Do they get wired in with the standard intank pump (so internal and external prime at the same time/powered same time) - was thinking of doing this with an extra relay to keep voltage up.

Thanks

-Matt

BTW - POST PICS

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeasily enough

[XRATED]

400rwkw is about the safe limmit for a single 044- depending how much torque your puting down...

I would go with an aftermarket pump, rated for e85 and with a higher flow rate... like an aeromotive A1000? Or a Weldon inline 1100 http://www.weldonracing.com/products/Produ...line+Pumps.html .

I don't like twin pumps...

J.

[todoom]

Look at NYTSKY's thred he has said what he runs with E85 and that makes 390kw i would put two 044's for the saftey of not having to push the 1 044 and running the risk of doing damage to your engine.

[huddy]

thanks guys, i'd like to know why people don't rate having 2 externals???

I've seen a lot of ppl speaking of 'x' amount of power out of single 044 external but many are relating to pump fuel. How much more does E85 flow the PULP?

cheers

[jonn]

400rwkw is about the safe limmit for a single 044- depending how much torque your puting down...

I would go with an aftermarket pump, rated for e85 and with a higher flow rate... like an aeromotive A1000? Or a Weldon inline 1100 http://www.weldonracing.com/products/Produ...line+Pumps.html .

I don't like twin pumps...

J.

Unfortunately Weldon pumps are only rated for gasoline/petrol. They would not be a good choice for E85.

Compatible with Gasoline Only (not compatible with alcohol / ethanol based fuels)

[N1GTR]

thanks guys, i'd like to know why people don't rate having 2 externals???

I've seen a lot of ppl speaking of 'x' amount of power out of single 044 external but many are relating to pump fuel. How much more does E85 flow the PULP?

cheers

Well on mine it used 45% more on power runs, who cares about normal running (it's less of course)

I use 2 o44's external and have zero issues. STACKS of big power cars use them, usually in the boot with a 2L or so surge tank.

Edit; Mine maxed out 1000's on the fourth dyno run, there's vids on YouTube but the lesson is that 1000's on my setup (26/30 like you) was no good. They lasted until a touch over 400rwkw before there was no more duty cycle to go. Went with Injector Dynamics 2000's and very happy. It drives so much better now aswel which I wasn't expecting. Speak to Trent at Mercury Motorsport for pricing, I got them from him. I think your setup will be a heap of fun to drive, good luck with it all

[brad 110]

Hey guys,

been reading through motorsport section and this section and I just cannot seem to find exactly what i'm after re: E85 and fuel setups.

I was planning on running 2 x external pumps, but after reading, it may be simpler to run 1.

My setup is - RB26/30, gt3076r 0.82 ext gate on E85 - hoping for between 330 - 360rwkw

I have:

walbro intank pump as pickup/feed pump, 3 L surge tank, 1 x external 044, nismo fpr, 1000cc injectors - I was wondering if this will be sufficient? Or if I will need 2 x externals (due to E85).

***ALSO***

How does the external pumps get wired up? Do they get wired in with the standard intank pump (so internal and external prime at the same time/powered same time) - was thinking of doing this with an extra relay to keep voltage up.

Thanks

-Matt

BTW - POST PICS

YOU WILL NEED TWO 044S, 113 HP AT THE CRANK PER LITRE OF E85, PETROL IS 165HP PER LITRE, AN 044 IS ONLY CAPABLE OF 3.6LTPM AT 55 PSI. THE WALBRO AS LONG AS IT IS THE BIGGER RATED UNIT WILL BE FINE. 1000CC INJECTORS WILL BE OK.

[R31Nismoid]

AN 044 IS ONLY CAPABLE OF 3.6LTPM AT 55 PSI. THE WALBRO AS LONG AS IT IS THE BIGGER RATED UNIT WILL BE FINE. 1000CC INJECTORS WILL BE OK.

Umm what?

There is no way any Walbro will flow more than a Bosch 044. I've been down that road before.

Bosch 044 will have a minimum flow 5Litres/min (300LPH) at thier 5bar rating & 12 volts. No idea where you get 3.6LPM from.

That's the issue with Bosch pumps and their ratings as you'll see below, the 044 is NOT rated @ the same pressure as the 040.

Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In Tank

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)

Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 044

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In-Line

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)

http://boschfuelpumps.com/

[huddy]

realistically - is it possible that with boost around 25psi I may see 370+ rwkw (been reading NYTSKY's build thread).

what other single pump would flow enough and be suitable for E85?

I dont want to be running out of fuel all because I opted for the wrong external pump OR didn't go down the 2 x external pump options.

Seems there are a few conflicting options... which makes it hard lol.

Appreciate the input, keep it coming.

-Matt

[bubba]

Umm what?

There is no way any Walbro will flow more than a Bosch 044. I've been down that road before.

Bosch 044 will have a minimum flow 5Litres/min (300LPH) at thier 5bar rating & 12 volts. No idea where you get 3.6LPM from.

That's the issue with Bosch pumps and their ratings as you'll see below, the 044 is NOT rated @ the same pressure as the 040.

Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In Tank

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)

Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 044

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In-Line

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)

http://boschfuelpumps.com/

The guy said 3.6L/min @ 55psi.. 55psi is ~75% of of 72.5psi.. 3.6L is ~75% of 5L..

His maths isn't exact but it's pretty close..

Edited June 11, 2010 by bubba

[R31Nismoid]

He said its "only capable"... which is totally wrong.

The specs clearly show even going by 75% of the minimum, you can get more out of it yet if you wanted - given the minimum outputs.

So it would exceed it either way.

[rob82]

Umm what?

There is no way any Walbro will flow more than a Bosch 044. I've been down that road before.

Bosch 044 will have a minimum flow 5Litres/min (300LPH) at thier 5bar rating & 12 volts. No idea where you get 3.6LPM from.

That's the issue with Bosch pumps and their ratings as you'll see below, the 044 is NOT rated @ the same pressure as the 040.

Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In Tank

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)

Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 044

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In-Line

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)

http://boschfuelpumps.com/

Those specs are crap - got to this site http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/...s/fuelpumps.pdf

Then you will see that they are only good for 200LPH @ 5Bar = 3.33L/min @ 12Volts.

I've never seen a single 044 ever make 400rwkw safely on our dyno.

And as for 6x 1000cc/min not being enough for 400rwkw on E85 thats crap too - I bet your fuel pressure is dropping or your trying to make power above 10 000rpm.

I've made 420rwkw on an xr6t with 6x 660cc/min injectors with a base fuel pressure of 4bar with 16psi of boost and that was with 1x 044 and 1x walbro intank in semi parallel pump setup.

[rob82]

Well on mine it used 45% more on power runs, who cares about normal running (it's less of course)

I use 2 o44's external and have zero issues. STACKS of big power cars use them, usually in the boot with a 2L or so surge tank.

Edit; Mine maxed out 1000's on the fourth dyno run, there's vids on YouTube but the lesson is that 1000's on my setup (26/30 like you) was no good. They lasted until a touch over 400rwkw before there was no more duty cycle to go. Went with Injector Dynamics 2000's and very happy. It drives so much better now aswel which I wasn't expecting. Speak to Trent at Mercury Motorsport for pricing, I got them from him. I think your setup will be a heap of fun to drive, good luck with it all

The injector dynamic injectors ID1000s are awesome but by my calcs they should be good for at least 500rwkw on E85 unless its a very ineffcient engine.

[R31Nismoid]

Those specs are crap - got to this site http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/...s/fuelpumps.pdf

Then you will see that they are only good for 200LPH @ 5Bar = 3.33L/min @ 12Volts.

I've never seen a single 044 ever make 400rwkw safely on our dyno.

And as for 6x 1000cc/min not being enough for 400rwkw on E85 thats crap too - I bet your fuel pressure is dropping or your trying to make power above 10 000rpm.

I've made 420rwkw on an xr6t with 6x 660cc/min injectors with a base fuel pressure of 4bar with 16psi of boost and that was with 1x 044 and 1x walbro intank in semi parallel pump setup.

Well there you go then

[huddy]

can of worms much??

opinions on seeing how i go with 1 x external 044 (seems like it can be done)... is it worth seeing how it goes and how safefly or just go with 2 x externals?

cheers

[brad 110]

Umm what?

There is no way any Walbro will flow more than a Bosch 044. I've been down that road before.

Bosch 044 will have a minimum flow 5Litres/min (300LPH) at thier 5bar rating & 12 volts. No idea where you get 3.6LPM from.

That's the issue with Bosch pumps and their ratings as you'll see below, the 044 is NOT rated @ the same pressure as the 040.

Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In Tank

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)

Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:

Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 044

Minimum Current: 12 Volts

Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)

Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)

Fuel Pump Location: In-Line

High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)

Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)

http://boschfuelpumps.com/

the specs are great flow them in the car at 55psi with a -6 supply line or smaller and there goes the specs, the walbro in the tank is pumping at 0 pressure as a lift pump, no one said anything about a walbro out flowing an 044 at 55 psi.

[s2d4]

You may as well spend the extra 200- 220 bux on the pump that will give you a piece of mind plus you can always go e85 after if you feel like it.

can of worms much??

opinions on seeing how i go with 1 x external 044 (seems like it can be done)... is it worth seeing how it goes and how safefly or just go with 2 x externals?

cheers

Edited June 11, 2010 by s2d4

[s2d4]

What about the actual quality of the pump?

044 seems to be the industry standard for feed pumps?

As for internal, the 044 can be mounted internally too, either as a lift pump or even inside the surge tank as feeds to the rail.

the specs are great flow them in the car at 55psi with a -6 supply line or smaller and there goes the specs, the walbro in the tank is pumping at 0 pressure as a lift pump, no one said anything about a walbro out flowing an 044 at 55 psi.

Edited June 11, 2010 by s2d4

[Butters]

One 044 pump will be fine as long as you don't try and run stupid high rail pressure and run a seperate relay to power the pump.

I don't actually see how two pumps gives you "safety". If one pump fails and the other isnt enough your still screwed. I see the complications of running two pumps more likely to cause issues.

FYI - Running 425 rwkw on e85 with one 044 in tank and run the 141 mph to back it up as well

Yer - Thats No surge tanks, no lift pumps, even stock fuel lines and fuel filter.

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