E85 Fuel Setup

[XRATED]

The addition of 85% ethanol cools down the entire line as well as combustion due to its properties. Thus the heating effect will be dramatically less than for bp98.

I am aware of E85 thermal properties...

But an 044 at 0 psi pumps alot of fuel... If an 044 pumps 3.5lpm at 55psi @12V - probably double it or more for 0-5 psi. It's filling that surge tank volume very 30 seconds.

That's alot of roundy roundy...

J.

[Adriano]

Im guessing even more than double the flow rate for 0-5 psi. I used a vl pump to fill jerry cans, and it fills 20l in about 2 min

[bigmikespec]

Hey Justin,

You reckon one Weldon pump is sufficient to pump out of a fuel cell (foam filled?) from multiple pick ups maybe either side of tank without getting fuel surge? Or surge tank still required? I like the idea of one pump but I do not reckon it is possible.

Mike

[rob82]

I am aware of E85 thermal properties...

But an 044 at 0 psi pumps alot of fuel... If an 044 pumps 3.5lpm at 55psi @12V - probably double it or more for 0-5 psi. It's filling that surge tank volume very 30 seconds.

That's alot of roundy roundy...

J.

Are you guys suggesting that E85 will run cooler that normal pump fuel within the fuel system?

[XRATED]

From what I have read, E85 wont store heat energy like 98 will...

Also E85 combustion temps are cooler... Thus engine running temps are generally cooler.

Wich all adds up to cooler circulating fuel.

Cheers

Justin

[XRATED]

Hey Justin,

You reckon one Weldon pump is sufficient to pump out of a fuel cell (foam filled?) from multiple pick ups maybe either side of tank without getting fuel surge? Or surge tank still required? I like the idea of one pump but I do not reckon it is possible.

Mike

Hey Mike, surge is caused by the pick up to the fuel pump/s sucking air instead of fuel- creating air and vapor locks. I dosn't matter if you use one or one hundred pumps, the pump has no effect on surge.

If you use two pickups and one pick up sucks air- you will get surge... reguardless if the two pickups go to one pump or two.

As I understand it (I've never installed a foam filled fuel cell) a foam filled fuel cell will prevent the fuel from moving laterally to quickly. If it prevents the quick motion of fuel in any direction, then you will not need a surge tank. However if you half fill the cell and shake it from side to side and notice that the fuel sloshes quickly from one side to the other, then you will need a surge tank.

The best place for a pick up is at the back, in the center at the lowest point. I'd stick with one pickup in the center.

Also make shure you put a 40 mic filter before any pump you install... I see alot of fuel systems without filters. You'll just wreck the pump.

Hope that helps

Justin

[bigmikespec]

Yeah, cheers mate good info. Just trying to figure out what the best way to go is. Using a single Weldon pump drawing from a fuel cell seems like a good way to go and also the simplest. A Weldon pump is expensive as is a Fuel Safe fuel cell but is it better than a cheap fuel cell, lift pump, surge tank and two high pressure pumps...

[JonnoHR31]

why not just use a standard pump to feed a surge tank from the standard tank then whatever main pump you want after that? doesnt have to be 2 pumps

[XRATED]

Yeah, cheers mate good info. Just trying to figure out what the best way to go is. Using a single Weldon pump drawing from a fuel cell seems like a good way to go and also the simplest. A Weldon pump is expensive as is a Fuel Safe fuel cell but is it better than a cheap fuel cell, lift pump, surge tank and two high pressure pumps...

... If your fuel cell has suitable baffles or if the foam slows the movement of the fuel enough, then you won't need a surge tank- reguardeless of what pump you run. If you do need a surge tank- run high volume low pressure pump to the surge tank, then draw from the surge tank.

Weldon pumps are expensive... but so is an engine re-build.

J.

[Mark-32]

Can anyone tell me what power levels a single 044 pump can handle. Just after some reliable info and it seems as though you guys are the ones that can help me.

Im in the process of building a fuel system for my rb26. Current setup is single in tank 044. Fuel is 98RON only.

Im using dash 5's with the usual fruit, but boost is only standard at the moment on 13.5psi making 322rwkw

Im about to wind the boost up next to around 20-22 psi if theres no detonation.

My questions are:

Will my current intank 044 be ok to use as the lift pump?

Will an additional single 044 mounted externaly support 380-400rwkw (If thats what i should expect the car to make with 20-22psi?)

Will a 2 litre surge tank be ok?

What size fuel lines, any additional information i should know?

Sorry to steal this thread so to speak but i have alot of the same questions as stated here and cant find the answers by searching.

Any info is much appreciated

[XRATED]

Can anyone tell me what power levels a single 044 pump can handle. Just after some reliable info and it seems as though you guys are the ones that can help me.

Im in the process of building a fuel system for my rb26. Current setup is single in tank 044. Fuel is 98RON only.

Im using dash 5's with the usual fruit, but boost is only standard at the moment on 13.5psi making 322rwkw

Im about to wind the boost up next to around 20-22 psi if theres no detonation.

My questions are:

Will my current intank 044 be ok to use as the lift pump?

Will an additional single 044 mounted externaly support 380-400rwkw (If thats what i should expect the car to make with 20-22psi?)

Will a 2 litre surge tank be ok?

What size fuel lines, any additional information i should know?

Sorry to steal this thread so to speak but i have alot of the same questions as stated here and cant find the answers by searching.

Any info is much appreciated

Answers are:

It will work, but it will flow way to much fuel contantly. Put a stock pump back in with the factory speed control.

I used to run a single 044 using 98 and made just shy of 400rwkw + a 50hp shot of nitrous (was a wet system, so it draws from the 044 aswell)in my gtr.

Shure.. but bigger the better.

You can get away with the stock fuel lines, although I ran a 1/2" line just to maximise the 044's flow potential.

If it's a street car, I'd also look at a fuel pump speed controller.

J.

[s2d4]

I agree that the last pump that you posted would work better since you can go -8 then to twin -6 into a dual feed rail. This way there will not be a pressure build up at the reducers (as there isn't any to become a bottleneck). I am pretty sure my fluid dynamics wasn't off since its common knowledge that you can only flow as much as the smallest section of pipe/line will allow. It is also a well known fact that pumps will wear out faster trying to push the same flow over a smaller pipe.

As for the sizing in combination with the orientation since it isn't inline, by the time fittings are attached, the unit can become relative fat and I am not too sure where it will fit in an external setup. This wouldn't be a problem in the boot though.

Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced. A better choice would be to set up each 044 pump with -6 lines feeding directly into each end of the fuel rail. There is no bottleneck on the feed side as nothing in the fuel system is smaller then the outlet size of the 044.

The two occasions where your own single setup of 044 ran at around 400kw + nitrous, did you upgrade the fuel rail? stock fuel line? were you maxing them out with the addition of nitrous oxide as it allow the engine to burn more fuel and air? Was it tuned for the effects of the nitrous shot?

Example 2 didn't have knock control or pressure drop ignition cut in the ecu just some gauges and warning light hence the driver was able to run it for a few seconds in that situation.

Example 3 sounds a bit odd, wouldn't one of the first things to check when you drop fuel pressure is the actual pump?

1. I don't need to save money on fuel system components - I agree, not sure about 900+ vs 400 though since a single 044 will support 600HP+ which is more than enough for most track cars so doubling isn't a bad idea for a peace of mind?

2. Less components= Less things to fail - I agree to a certain degree, case in point, push rod vs overhead cams. Although there are quite a few good pushrod engines out there.

3. Simpler to operate and control - Just let the fuel pump controller control the relays which feeds the +12Vdc straight from the battery. If you are worried about the temperature, add a cooler as they are only 100+

4. Easier to install and package - I guess tightening a few extra fittings and one line shouldn't be too hard? Most surge tanks that are available are suited to the two pump set up so packaging isn't an issue here I think.

5. Less fittings and thus less points of failure/leaks - same thing as number 2, just different wording. I doubt that anyone would not run an Oil cooler/filter relocation set up just because of this issue.

6. The one pump is of better quality than multiple cheaper pumps - this is one area that I am not too sure about as the 044 is "used by Japanese European & Australian tuner shops, JGTC cars, Touring cars, almost all WRC cars, and many more. Quite possibly, the most popular aftermarket fuel pump" In addition, I tend to think german stuff is better than American in most cases, especially automotive related. A lot of german road cars also uses bosch fuel pumps so maybe the quality is there?

7. Quicker to diagnose a problem with the fuel delivery - check the fuel pump and other fuel line components when the fuel pressure drop. Not sure what to do if you can't visibly find any faults? change the pumps. Use knock control and pressure drop ignition cut in the ecu to prevent damage.

btw, I am just asking questions and voicing some concerns to get a better understanding, not taking a pot shot at you or anything. My apologies if you were offended but there is no need to call me a little boy.

Edited June 14, 2010 by s2d4

[XRATED]

I agree that the last pump that you posted would work better since you can go -8 then to twin -6 into a dual feed rail. This way there will not be a pressure build up at the reducers (as there isn't any to become a bottleneck). I am pretty sure my fluid dynamics wasn't off since its common knowledge that you can only flow as much as the smallest section of pipe/line will allow. It is also a well known fact that pumps will wear out faster trying to push the same flow over a smaller pipe.

The "fluid dynamics" your using is not based on your knowledge/understanding/calculations using fluid dynamic mathmatics... Your using common knowledge and appling it to this situation- I'm not saying your wrong, but I doubt you sat down and worked through the mathmatics. I have a reasonable good working knowledge of fluid mechanics/dynamics as I am a large yacht engineer-

As for the sizing in combination with the orientation since it isn't inline, by the time fittings are attached, the unit can become relative fat and I am not too sure where it will fit in an external setup. This wouldn't be a problem in the boot though.

One 044 is roughly 7x2.5 inches? add brackets and you mount two together, then add end fittings +2 inches, you get 8x6 inches roughly.... do yo agree? One weldon 2032 is 7.7x3.45 inches... then add fittings to each side +2 inches- you end up with 7.7x5.45.... effectivly the same package size if not smaller........ how do you not see that? If you still don't have engough space, then go for an aeromotive eliminator pump... they're somthing like 7x3 inches...

Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced. A better choice would be to set up each 044 pump with -6 lines feeding directly into each end of the fuel rail. There is no bottleneck on the feed side as nothing in the fuel system is smaller then the outlet size of the 044.

This statment shows your lack of knowledge or understanding of "fluid dynamics" as you say... If 100gpm from one pump gets pushed into a -8 line it will flow exactily the same as if 100gpm was pushed into the same -8 line at the same pressure... 100gpm is 100gpm reguardless of the the number of pumps delivering it.

There are many ways to set up a fuel system... I have done a few... Not just in high performace vehicles either (applications from 1500hp to 12000hp), thus I try and help people with they're choices on this forum. Running two -6 from two 044's is a reasonable way to go, but like any set up there are comprimises, pros and cons... eg, if one pump fails- 1/2 your rail will lean out much quicker than the other- you also need twice as much fuel line and twice as many filters...

The two occasions where your own single setup of 044 ran at around 400kw + nitrous, did you upgrade the fuel rail? stock fuel line? were you maxing them out with the addition of nitrous oxide as it allow the engine to burn more fuel and air? Was it tuned for the effects of the nitrous shot?

I ran a 1/2" fuel delivery line, stock return line and an upgraded fuel rail (one feed one return)- fuel line dosn't have much to do with anything though??? When you say "them' what are you reffering to? The pump was close it it's max flow rate, with a 10% buffer with the nitrous. I'm not going to explain how nitrous works, I'd suggest you do some reaserch. Yes my timing map was optimised to make full use of the nitrous safely, what dose that have to do with fuel delivery?

Example 2 didn't have knock control or pressure drop ignition cut in the ecu just some gauges and warning light hence the driver was able to run it for a few seconds in that situation.

90% of tuned cars out there don't have knock compensation maps or an ignition cut for low fuel pressure... I don't think you actually understand how these would work... it's not as simple as a hobbs pressure switch and relay.

Example 3 sounds a bit odd, wouldn't one of the first things to check when you drop fuel pressure is the actual pump?

The failing pump still worked under low load conditions, it still pumped- there were no dips or spikes in fuel pressure untill peak hp- there were no abnormal signs of fuel pressure or fuel delivery under all other conditions. The only reason we diagnosed one pump as faulty is we pressure-flow tested each pump on a test rig to find out if the two pumps delivered what they were rated at... one ended up weaker than the other and the controll pump ( a brand new out of the box pump we used as a benchmark)... we basically found it by accident.

1. I don't need to save money on fuel system components - I agree, not sure about 900+ vs 400 though since a single 044 will support 600HP+ which is more than enough for most track cars so doubling isn't a bad idea for a peace of mind?

Either do I... but the most common reason people choose two 044's over a single larger pump is it's cheaper. I can't see any other reason why you would go to the extra complexity?

2. Less components= Less things to fail - I agree to a certain degree, case in point, push rod vs overhead cams. Although there are quite a few good pushrod engines out there.

I've never said it's a bad idea or it's wrong to run multiple pumps... My preffrence is to run one pump...

3. Simpler to operate and control - Just let the fuel pump controller control the relays which feeds the +12Vdc straight from the battery. If you are worried about the temperature, add a cooler as they are only 100+

??? Fuel pump controllers don't operate realays... they are PWM's. Fuel coolers add a whole new dimention- I'm not going to get into it, but I think they're a last resort... if they rupture, it's very dangerous.

4. Easier to install and package - I guess tightening a few extra fittings and one line shouldn't be too hard? Most surge tanks that are available are suited to the two pump set up so packaging isn't an issue here I think.

Are you going to argue evey point??? If you feel you need two pumps and two lines... be my guest. Just make shure you add a 100mic filter before each pump and a 40 mic (for e85) or 10mic (normal fuel) after.

5. Less fittings and thus less points of failure/leaks - same thing as number 2, just different wording. I doubt that anyone would not run an Oil cooler/filter relocation set up just because of this

less fittings also equals less cost, if I didn't have to run an oil cooler, I wouldn't... but lower oil temps out weighs the possible leaks... all oil cooler are designed with a minumum of fittings too... also oil wont ignite quite as easily as vaporised gasoline, so it's less of an issue.

6. The one pump is of better quality than multiple cheaper pumps - this is one area that I am not too sure about as the 044 is "used by Japanese European & Australian tuner shops, JGTC cars, Touring cars, almost all WRC cars, and many more. Quite possibly, the most popular aftermarket fuel pump" In addition, I tend to think german stuff is better than American in most cases, especially automotive related. A lot of german road cars also uses bosch fuel pumps so maybe the quality is there?

I would pitt a $1400 weldon (leaded bronze and tool steel internals) up against an off the shelf 044 anyday for reliability... I don't even know if 044 pumps are made in germany? do you? I keep saying this... I'M NOT SAYING 044'S ARE BAD OR WRONG. They are popular all around the world.

You can't compare the a race teams use of equipment to an average tuner/racer's use... How many races do you think each pump will do? Not many- nothing is used more than a few races... especially cheap items like fuel pumps.

7. Quicker to diagnose a problem with the fuel delivery - check the fuel pump and other fuel line components when the fuel pressure drop. Not sure what to do if you can't visibly find any faults? change the pumps. Use knock control and pressure drop ignition cut in the ecu to prevent damage.

If the one pump fails.. it fails.... whatever method you use to diagnose a fault the proceedure is simplified... fact. Usually a single failing fump will show it's self on the dyno or at the track well before you get to peak torque/hp as compared to two pumps in paralell.

All the sensors, cut outs, guages, telapathy in the world is all good... it has nothing to do with fuel delivery reliability and arn't guarantee to save a motor. Best cure is prevention... You can't trust a 20k motor to a "back up plan" warings and cut outs.

btw, I am just asking questions and voicing some concerns to get a better understanding, not taking a pot shot at you or anything. My apologies if you were offended but there is no need to call me a little boy.

Your making some loose statments that are not based on your own experience, reaserch, testing or matmatics... I don't mind giving my opinion or advice to those who listen and are interested in learning... you just seem hell bent on arguing every point? I have posted up my advice, based on experience... you don't have to follow it. I'm not a professional race car fuel system engineer, but have been building skylines circa '96 and am a qualified superyacht engineer.

I'm not offended, just confused by some of your questions and comments...

At the end of the day none of these 5 page amounts to s@it... it's an open internet forum and you can't trust anything anyone says. ha ha ha ASK YOUR TUNER/BUILDER/MECHANIC FOR ADVICE.

Little buddy is not 'little boy', it's a kind term used, loosely translated to 'smaller or younger friend'...

If I were you, I'd hit the books and start studying, calling people who you can trust for advice and learing as much as you can about the things we have disscused in this thread.

Edited June 14, 2010 by XRATED

[nismorob]

i run E85 and

1 o44 external pump,700cc injectors and it ran perfect on the dyno to 7500....its an rb26

[s2d4]

Yeah, I am actually an electrical/control systems engineer albeit a rather junior one at this stage. It's probably a good idea to get one of the mech guys that specialises in hydraulics to go over some points.

I don't see as it arguing actually, more like questioning so I can fully understand why you are against it.

Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced. A better choice would be to set up each 044 pump with -6 lines feeding directly into each end of the fuel rail. There is no bottleneck on the feed side as nothing in the fuel system is smaller then the outlet size of the 044.

This statment shows your lack of knowledge or understanding of "fluid dynamics" as you say... If 100gpm from one pump gets pushed into a -8 line it will flow exactily the same as if 100gpm was pushed into the same -8 line at the same pressure... 100gpm is 100gpm reguardless of the the number of pumps delivering it.

Umm, what you are saying is pretty obvious but I was actually referring to the reducer, -10 to single -8 or -8 to single -6. The flow will be dictated by how much the lower size line will allow and it will be done at an unnecessary pressure level (more wear) as the pump draws more current. This is wrong?

[Mark-32]

Answers are:

It will work, but it will flow way to much fuel contantly. Put a stock pump back in with the factory speed control.

I used to run a single 044 using 98 and made just shy of 400rwkw + a 50hp shot of nitrous (was a wet system, so it draws from the 044 aswell)in my gtr.

Shure.. but bigger the better.

You can get away with the stock fuel lines, although I ran a 1/2" line just to maximise the 044's flow potential.

If it's a street car, I'd also look at a fuel pump speed controller.

J.

Good info ta mate.

Couple more questions for you guys.

Is there any way I can get away with keeping my 044 as a lift pump?

Would just be alot simpler to leave it there and build the external setup seperately and not have to worry about pulling the intank pump out again.

How do I use the factory speed control? Not to sure what that is?

Also where do I get a fuel pump speed controller and how does that get wired in?

I would really like to just keep the setup as simple as possible, so if the 044 intank pump is going to be to big to useand be a problem, what lift pump should I get and where can i get it from?

If I really do have to take the in tank pump out, I will use that as my external and purchase a new lift pump.

[XRATED]

Yeah, I am actually an electrical/control systems engineer albeit a rather junior one at this stage. It's probably a good idea to get one of the mech guys that specialises in hydraulics to go over some points.

I don't see as it arguing actually, more like questioning so I can fully understand why you are against it.

Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced. A better choice would be to set up each 044 pump with -6 lines feeding directly into each end of the fuel rail. There is no bottleneck on the feed side as nothing in the fuel system is smaller then the outlet size of the 044.

This statment shows your lack of knowledge or understanding of "fluid dynamics" as you say... If 100gpm from one pump gets pushed into a -8 line it will flow exactily the same as if 100gpm was pushed into the same -8 line at the same pressure... 100gpm is 100gpm reguardless of the the number of pumps delivering it.

Umm, what you are saying is pretty obvious but I was actually referring to the reducer, -10 to single -8 or -8 to single -6. The flow will be dictated by how much the lower size line will allow and it will be done at an unnecessary pressure level (more wear) as the pump draws more current. This is wrong?

Your pretty close. A reduced fitting/appature will only cause a restriction if it's flow rate at a given pressure is exeeded. Eg if a pump with a -10 outlet fitting flows 100pgm at 50psi is reduced down to -8 AND the -8 fitting can flow 100gpm at 50 psi there will be little or no restriction.... Why on earth would you reduce a pump down?

What's with the reducer qustions/comments?

"Pretty sure -10 reducing down to -8 is different to two -6 lines into an -8 as it actually isn't reduced"... not if it's the same flow rate at the same pressure. You actually got it right above. "The flow will be dictated by how much the lower size line" It all ends up in a -8 line, so the -8 line is the restiction... ha ah h a

We're going round in circles and I'm not explaining this very well.

At the end of the day, pick the correct size line for the flow rate and delivery pressure your trying to flow. Simple as that. Ask the hydralic guys for the formula... they use it everyday.

I'm not 'against' multiple pumps... I just prefer a single pump, for the reasons I've already stated.

Cheers

Justin

[Mark-32]

Good info ta mate.

Couple more questions for you guys.

Is there any way I can get away with keeping my 044 as a lift pump?

Would just be alot simpler to leave it there and build the external setup seperately and not have to worry about pulling the intank pump out again.

How do I use the factory speed control? Not to sure what that is?

Also where do I get a fuel pump speed controller and how does that get wired in?

I would really like to just keep the setup as simple as possible, so if the 044 intank pump is going to be to big to useand be a problem, what lift pump should I get and where can i get it from?

If I really do have to take the in tank pump out, I will use that as my external and purchase a new lift pump.

What do you think XRATED, any advise?

[XRATED]

Good info ta mate.

Couple more questions for you guys.

Is there any way I can get away with keeping my 044 as a lift pump?

Would just be alot simpler to leave it there and build the external setup seperately and not have to worry about pulling the intank pump out again.

How do I use the factory speed control? Not to sure what that is?

Also where do I get a fuel pump speed controller and how does that get wired in?

I would really like to just keep the setup as simple as possible, so if the 044 intank pump is going to be to big to useand be a problem, what lift pump should I get and where can i get it from?

If I really do have to take the in tank pump out, I will use that as my external and purchase a new lift pump.

You can use it... It's just WAY too big and may cause heating and vapor locks. If you hook up the origional wiring to the 044 it will slow it down at low demand (factory speed control), so it'll help a little. You could also run a FPR on the return line on the surge tank to keep it pressurised (say 10psi) this will also slow the pump down a little.

Aeromotive sell a good DC speed controller/PWM (Pulse Width Modulator)... It uses an rpm signal or AFM signal to ramp the pump up as required. It just means the pump's not pushing max flow ALL the time... you certainly don't use max hp all the time on the street.

I would find a good condition stock pump or one of the lower rated bosch motorsport pumps (040 is still too big)- remember pumps are flow rated at a particular pressure... at 0psi pressure a pump will normally flow double or tripple it's rated flow. Use the standard wiring (as there is factory speed controll) for the lift pump. Call Steve at EFI hardware for any parts you need.

Then use your current 044 as the external main feed pump. Make shure you use a good mount as they can be noisy. Also run a good size power feed cable, earth cable and realy to ensure you get maximum voltage/amperate to the pump.

Stock fuel lines should be fine for you application... If you need to buy a FPR get one with the largest return port possible... It helps keep the fuel a little cooler.

Ensure you use a pickup screen or sock on the lift pump, use a large 100mic filter before the main pump and a large 10mic filter before the fuel rail....

Cheers

Justin

Edited June 15, 2010 by XRATED

[Mark-32]

You can use it... It's just WAY too big and may cause heating and vapor locks. If you hook up the origional wiring to the 044 it will slow it down at low demand (factory speed control), so it'll help a little. You could also run a FPR on the return line on the surge tank to keep it pressurised (say 10psi) this will also slow the pump down a little.

Aeromotive sell a good DC speed controller/PWM (Pulse Width Modulator)... It uses an rpm signal or AFM signal to ramp the pump up as required. It just means the pump's not pushing max flow ALL the time... you certainly don't use max hp all the time on the street.

I would find a good condition stock pump or one of the lower rated bosch motorsport pumps (040 is still too big)- remember pumps are flow rated at a particular pressure... at 0psi pressure a pump will normally flow double or tripple it's rated flow. Use the standard wiring (as there is factory speed controll) for the lift pump. Call Steve at EFI hardware for any parts you need.

Then use your current 044 as the external main feed pump. Make shure you use a good mount as they can be noisy. Also run a good size power feed cable, earth cable and realy to ensure you get maximum voltage/amperate to the pump.

Stock fuel lines should be fine for you application... If you need to buy a FPR get one with the largest return port possible... It helps keep the fuel a little cooler.

Ensure you use a pickup screen or sock on the lift pump, use a large 100mic filter before the main pump and a large 10mic filter before the fuel rail....

Cheers

Justin

Ok so i spoke to my tuner and he said to run 2 external 044 pumps with the surge tank and use a carter 15psi low pressure pump as my lift pump.

Can you tell me how to plumb and wire the two pumps up, and also in regards to filters and one way valves, and will a 2 litre surge tank be big enough?

Also wheres the best place to purchase the carter lift pump and the assosiated filters and one way valves to complete the setup?