Race Car Time :d

[Nee-san]

Greetings Gents,

After a long hiatus my 32 GT-R will be back on the road and I'm itching to get it to Queensland Raceway to see how i stack up against a few of my mates, 1 with an evo 1 RS and another with a turbo MX5.

Handling wise, my car is currently standard apart from larger wheels, 17x9's.

I'm trying to Nut out a package that will aid me out on the track whilst retaining some level of drivability... read this as I am more then willing to lose some comfort but not all.

the tyre i will be using is KU36 255's on a 17" wheel, I figure its best to list the most important part of the system first and sort of develop things from there.

I would like to make maximum use of the cars standard characteristics, meaning i dont want to change to huge brakes for the fun of it. If i can get away with what nissan intended i will do so, obviously this is motorsport, nothing is cheap but i dont want to spend money needlessly either.

That said, what are peoples thoughts in terms of

Suspension (springs, dampers)

Brakes

swaybars

4wd controller ?

hicas removal ?

a bit about the car

Built 32-GTR 330rwkw but this could increase in the near future...

currently in the process of removing sound deadening etc etc.

What are your thoughts gents ?

[Duncan]

Great to see another car becoming trackified!

I would not bother spending any money on that list above before you fit proper semi slicks or slicks though...the difference will be chalk and cheese, and any suspension changes may work differently with the different type of tyre. ku36 is not a track tyre, its just a good road tyre

[Nee-san]

Hey Duncan,

Thanks for your reply, the car is is currently also my daily drive, as i live in central brisbane my driving is limited to and from work and just general transport so i will not be doing a large amount of kilometres per week apart from the occasional sunshine coast or goldcoast run.

as for the tyres, as a 4th year mech eng and automotive engineering student I wholeheartedly agree with your advice, however i am hesitant to run semislicks on the street for fear of going through a number of sets per year i felt that the ku36 represented the best compromise in this respect and i am eager to hear your thoughts on how i should proceed.

one option i have bandied around is selling off my Apexi 17x9's and fitting standard 32 GT-R wheels which as we all know are a great for all purposes, not to mention in terms of rubber pricing and availability.

[Risking]

Keep the 17's and fit a set of RE55 SR2's. Buy a set of gtr rims and use those for daily duties.

Going with a lesser tire will make all the difference.

Suspension wise, replace every rubber bush with some type of urethane product, get a set of adjustable castor and camber arms. Shock wise set a budget and work to it. Typicaly the more your willing to spend the better they will be. Saying that most people wouldn't be able to tell the real differnace between a tein or a sach shock if they had the same spring. So buy something decent and use quality springs eibach are my pick.

hicas remove it, if your good with a lathe turn up some pins and replace the stupid rear ball joints on the uprights with rod ends and make up your own intermediate bar.

Sway bars there is only one. Selbys bars. I've tried them all and end up back with selbys bar everytime. They are consistant, fit well and reasonably priced.

Brakes to begin with buy a good set of rotors, DBA 4000 series are a nice starting point and a good set of pads. Use fresh fluid, motul rbf600 is okay and see how the brakes survive. Stretch to a set of braided lines if budget permits.

Awd controllers I've never really used oters may have better input about them.

There is a massive ammount of things I've left out but to have some fun seriously buy a good set of tires and go driving.

[Duncan]

Just do what brad siad,....he got it right

Years ago I tried the compromise of good road tyres on the track and it is just frustrating.

Much better option is 2 sets of wheels that you swap before the track day. Buy some cheapies in whatever you want for road use with OK rubber on them, and then put semi slicks on the 17x9 (assuming they are good wheels). THat is a great size for reasonably priced semi slicks around 245/45/17 up to 265/40/17.

The compromise of trying to use 1 tyre for 2 totally different uses will just frustrate you for both uses....and it is more expensive over time because you will rip up road tyres on the track

[FineLine]

Just do what brad siad,....he got it right

Years ago I tried the compromise of good road tyres on the track and it is just frustrating.

Much better option is 2 sets of wheels that you swap before the track day. Buy some cheapies in whatever you want for road use with OK rubber on them, and then put semi slicks on the 17x9 (assuming they are good wheels). THat is a great size for reasonably priced semi slicks around 245/45/17 up to 265/40/17.

The compromise of trying to use 1 tyre for 2 totally different uses will just frustrate you for both uses....and it is more expensive over time because you will rip up road tyres on the track

Times 11ty

[Nee-san]

I like the Idea of standard GT-R wheels, thanks for all the advice guys, just out of curiousity whats a reasonable price for a 245 semi >?

[djr81]

Greetings Gents,

After a long hiatus my 32 GT-R will be back on the road and I'm itching to get it to Queensland Raceway to see how i stack up against a few of my mates, 1 with an evo 1 RS and another with a turbo MX5.

Handling wise, my car is currently standard apart from larger wheels, 17x9's.

I'm trying to Nut out a package that will aid me out on the track whilst retaining some level of drivability... read this as I am more then willing to lose some comfort but not all.

the tyre i will be using is KU36 255's on a 17" wheel, I figure its best to list the most important part of the system first and sort of develop things from there.

I would like to make maximum use of the cars standard characteristics, meaning i dont want to change to huge brakes for the fun of it. If i can get away with what nissan intended i will do so, obviously this is motorsport, nothing is cheap but i dont want to spend money needlessly either.

That said, what are peoples thoughts in terms of

Suspension (springs, dampers)

Brakes

swaybars

4wd controller ?

hicas removal ?

a bit about the car

Built 32-GTR 330rwkw but this could increase in the near future...

currently in the process of removing sound deadening etc etc.

What are your thoughts gents ?

Ok well first point is that what Nissan intended was that the car be driven on the road and not the track. If you take your standard car to the track you will find it coming up short in a number of areas. Well, most of them really.

Before going through the list I would like to offer the following free advice (worth every cent):

Do not try & get half pregnant.

In other words if you are even half serious about it you will end up with a solution that is a proper one and not a half measure. So implement the proper solution and don't waste money on doing it in bits.

So thoughts are :

Tyres. Go get some RE55 SR2 compounds. Don't muck about with the lesser compromises that try & be R comps but without the compound to do the job properly. Don't use road tyres on the track. They just get destroyed and you go slow. So get some RE55's & make sure you look after them - this means a good suspension package. Also get a good tyre gauge. Good meaning that it doesn't come from Supercheap Auto or similar. Keep notes.

Suspension (springs, dampers)

Too many people make the mistake of going ape with spring rates. Queensland Raceway is bumpy as hell so avoid big numbers on the spring rates. Nismo make (or made) a good unit with a 5.5kg/mm front & 4.5 kg/mm rear. Aim for something about that number. 3kg/mm springs will have the thing cornering on its door handles so avoid those too. Don't run the car too low.

Swaybars.

Whiteline/Selbys are ok. Cusco are better. Nismo are good too as the match the spring rates (if you can get some)

Brakes.

Standard R32 GT-R brakes are not up to the job. You will get fade after very few laps. Do not buy DBA 4000 rotors. I would recommend Project Mu gear. Pads Ferodo DS2500 are very good, if expensive. Remove the backing plates (be carefull at the rear due to the proximity of the arm bushes to the rotor) and get some ducting to the front rotors. Motul brake fluid (RBF660) is worth the investment.

4WD controller.

Ruzik.

HICAS removal.

Yes. But take it all out & it is also a good idea to get a better cooler for the power steer system while you are about it.

Also make sure the bushes are all good, the LSD & the ATTESSA clutches work as Nissan intended and get some serious -ve camber in the front end.

Also read (and understand) about suspension theory and driving theory. That will help alot.

Oh and start looking for a new gearbox....

[Nee-san]

Ok well first point is that what Nissan intended was that the car be driven on the road and not the track. If you take your standard car to the track you will find it coming up short in a number of areas. Well, most of them really.

Before going through the list I would like to offer the following free advice (worth every cent):

Do not try & get half pregnant.

In other words if you are even half serious about it you will end up with a solution that is a proper one and not a half measure. So implement the proper solution and don't waste money on doing it in bits.

So thoughts are :

Tyres. Go get some RE55 SR2 compounds. Don't muck about with the lesser compromises that try & be R comps but without the compound to do the job properly. Don't use road tyres on the track. They just get destroyed and you go slow. So get some RE55's & make sure you look after them - this means a good suspension package. Also get a good tyre gauge. Good meaning that it doesn't come from Supercheap Auto or similar. Keep notes.

Suspension (springs, dampers)

Too many people make the mistake of going ape with spring rates. Queensland Raceway is bumpy as hell so avoid big numbers on the spring rates. Nismo make (or made) a good unit with a 5.5kg/mm front & 4.5 kg/mm rear. Aim for something about that number. 3kg/mm springs will have the thing cornering on its door handles so avoid those too. Don't run the car too low.

Swaybars.

Whiteline/Selbys are ok. Cusco are better. Nismo are good too as the match the spring rates (if you can get some)

Brakes.

Standard R32 GT-R brakes are not up to the job. You will get fade after very few laps. Do not buy DBA 4000 rotors. I would recommend Project Mu gear. Pads Ferodo DS2500 are very good, if expensive. Remove the backing plates (be carefull at the rear due to the proximity of the arm bushes to the rotor) and get some ducting to the front rotors. Motul brake fluid (RBF660) is worth the investment.

4WD controller.

Ruzik.

HICAS removal.

Yes. But take it all out & it is also a good idea to get a better cooler for the power steer system while you are about it.

Also make sure the bushes are all good, the LSD & the ATTESSA clutches work as Nissan intended and get some serious -ve camber in the front end.

Also read (and understand) about suspension theory and driving theory. That will help alot.

Oh and start looking for a new gearbox....

Thanks for your responses guys, after some research I have decided that I will source myself a set of the nismo S-tune suspension + swaybars.

As for the brake situation I am still undecided as upgrades can be quite expensive. This is not to say I will keep the standard arrangement but just that I need to evaluate how much of an increase is required in this area, so far I'm looking at options like the bigger R33 brembos.

AWD controller can wait until I get to a point where it makes sense from a cost/benefits point of view.

HICAS will be removed as it is a cheap and effective way of removing weight and bettering the handling.

ATTESSA system will be bled as will clutch and brakes etc, this will go alone with general overhaul of warn bushes etc.

As for the gearbox, are you saying that the standard unit will not last long with what I have intended for it ? (sprints + occasional hillrun and street duties) at this point I will note that as a percentage breakdown the intended use looks like this 75% street duties whilst the remaining 25% will be where it is being driven in anger.

Cheers,

Mitch.

[djr81]

Thanks for your responses guys, after some research I have decided that I will source myself a set of the nismo S-tune suspension + swaybars.

The S tune is no longer available new as far as I know. So they may be hard to get.

As for the brake situation I am still undecided as upgrades can be quite expensive. This is not to say I will keep the standard arrangement but just that I need to evaluate how much of an increase is required in this area, so far I'm looking at options like the bigger R33 brembos.

R33 Brembos are over rated & expensive. Also understand that running stock brakes is expensive too because you go through alot of pads, rotors & fluid. Catch 22 really.

AWD controller can wait until I get to a point where it makes sense from a cost/benefits point of view.

They aren't that expensive & make a BIG difference to lap speed. Also the interact with your suspension setup & the attessa system.

HICAS will be removed as it is a cheap and effective way of removing weight and bettering the handling.

Removing the front half is, I think, an engine out job. But worth it if you get the chance.

ATTESSA system will be bled as will clutch and brakes etc, this will go alone with general overhaul of warn bushes etc.

ATTESSA clutch packs have an end shim that allows a certain amount of gap between the clutch plates when not working. As the plates wear this gap opens & you get a slow acting ATTESSA system. A controller can hide this but it is an expensive & long winded proper fix because you have to buy a particular thickness of shim fron Nissan that you cant measure until the system is out & in bits.

As for the gearbox, are you saying that the standard unit will not last long with what I have intended for it ? (sprints + occasional hillrun and street duties) at this point I will note that as a percentage breakdown the intended use looks like this 75% street duties whilst the remaining 25% will be where it is being driven in anger.

Just saying that making lap speed needs quick gear changes which the synchros can't usually keep up with. The gears themselves should be fine just the synchros will in time not work so well.

[Nee-san]

The S tune is no longer available new as far as I know. So they may be hard to get.

R33 Brembos are over rated & expensive. Also understand that running stock brakes is expensive too because you go through alot of pads, rotors & fluid. Catch 22 really.

They aren't that expensive & make a BIG difference to lap speed. Also the interact with your suspension setup & the attessa system.

Removing the front half is, I think, an engine out job. But worth it if you get the chance.

ATTESSA clutch packs have an end shim that allows a certain amount of gap between the clutch plates when not working. As the plates wear this gap opens & you get a slow acting ATTESSA system. A controller can hide this but it is an expensive & long winded proper fix because you have to buy a particular thickness of shim fron Nissan that you cant measure until the system is out & in bits.

Just saying that making lap speed needs quick gear changes which the synchros can't usually keep up with. The gears themselves should be fine just the synchros will in time not work so well.

As far as I can tell the Transfer case etc is operating fine.

I have found a place where I can get S-tune and similar suspension for a reasonable price second hand, as for the saybars i will get selbys/whiteline of the same dimension as the nismo items.

My biggest concern is brakes, I'm not really sure as far as options go whether i should be looking at a superior caliper or just trying to maximise the rotor area.... pads and fluid are easy, you just buy "good" stuff so if you have any ideas in this sort of area then i'de appreciate your input

Cheers,

Mitch.

[Nee-san]

?

[djr81]

As far as I can tell the Transfer case etc is operating fine.

I have found a place where I can get S-tune and similar suspension for a reasonable price second hand, as for the saybars i will get selbys/whiteline of the same dimension as the nismo items.

My biggest concern is brakes, I'm not really sure as far as options go whether i should be looking at a superior caliper or just trying to maximise the rotor area.... pads and fluid are easy, you just buy "good" stuff so if you have any ideas in this sort of area then i'de appreciate your input

Cheers,

Mitch.

To do the job properly you need bigger callipers, bigger rotors & probably a new master cylinder.

[Tangles]

re: ripping up street tyres.

My stagea has been tracked twice in 6months at Mallala, using 235/45/17 marshal matrac road tyres. They arnt that bad off at all.

have worn exceptionally well, still could do another track day or two on them plus normal driving duties.

The rb26 r32 sedan Im doing up for track duties is fitted with the ku36 tyres, not used as yet tho so cant comment on wear/tear.

also, the stagea is using the r32 gtr front brake calipers with qfm a1rm track pads. Had no fade whatsoever at the last trackday.

I fitted wilwood 4-pot calipers and 324mm discs to suit a 300zx on the r32 track sedan

[MrStabby]

Re: AWD controller, i'd put that near the top of the list, powerdown out of corners is hopeless in R32s....as you must already know. I just got the austalian ebay one for $160 which helps massively, but all the serious guys say get the Ruzic...

Re: Brakes, dont worry about changing the rears, and for the fronts many have had success with the G4/D2 chinese stuff, which accept AP pads. Used to be around $2K for the kit which includes rotors, calipers, adapters, braided lines and street pads. I got EBC yellows for my G4s for just over $300. There's been a couple of good threads in Suspension/Braking/Tyres about them, so search there.

[tarmac]

without reading the above;

castor arms are a must or at least urethane caster arm bushes. you dont want steering toe moving all over the place under brakes

locked subframe

locked hicas

good alignment maybe some toe out on front

good tires

good brake pads.

good brake fluid

gtr will already have decent sized sway bars

good monotube large piston coilovers.

ditch as much weight as your willing

.