Hid's On Standard Headlights Quick Question

[PM-R33]

*Sigh* It's like talking to children.

[Kinks]

You adjust the headlight a bit down to make up for the extra brightness and point them a bit more to the left so they don't point as much into oncoming traffic on the drivers side. Pretty bloody simple.

That idea is simple, but it's the Forrest Gump type of simple not the easy fix type of simple. Aiming your lights down gives you a big hotspot in front of the car, which on initial glance seems great wow look at all that light on the road, but you are most likely getting less light thrown on the distant road which is where you need it most. I'd rather know about something on the road when it's 200m in front of me not when it's 50m in front of me.

I purchased five kits off of Dave for an SS, Monaro, Supra, Mazda 3 and my own and also purchased a kit elsewhere for my bike down the track. Adjusted all the kits to compensate a bit for the extra light out put and not one of those people have had any problems or complaints from other people/the law.

Lemmings will happily follow each other off a cliff without complaining. So you're a good customer of Dave's HID kits, does that automatically mean that they are good just because you have bought 5 pairs? I fail to see a causal relationship between those two concepts.

Bringing shit like focal points into this discussion is a bit of a joke and your looking into it way to much

So applying logic, reason and optical physics as supporting evidence for why it's a brain dead idea in a headlight enclosure designed for a halogen bulb is unreasonable? Oh I guess I'll just have to think less, then it will seem OK.

It's not just about the extra brightness. It's also about the much better clarity, lower power consumption, much longer life length of bulbs, easier on the eyes, same price as most top of the range halogen bulbs and they have a nicer modern colour compared to a gay yellow light.

You sound like a Jehovas Witness who was peddling his faith. Will these headlights wipe my arse for me too?

If you don't want/like them fine, so be it, other people love them and I know i'll never own a car in the future without HID's, preferably factory ones on a big dollar Euro car

It's not about wanting or liking them - I do want HIDs. It's about them being utterly unsuited for our headlights. If someone could show me an acceptable cutoff pattern I would buy a set and shut up. I've asked the question on a number of occasions, nobody has posted pics, including vendors on this forum. Surely if they had more to gain than to lose by posting pics of the cutoff pattern, they would? It would only ever help their sales!

God that same website posted again, good to see you read the entire thread. We are all aware why they are illegal and you can allready get defected for them.

And yet the logic and reasoning behind that website and our laws has had no effect on you. Nice.

My lights are fine and I have never had any problems with them even when driving in front of, next to, or opposite police, nor do the other people's cars that I installed the kits into and adjusted. So at the end of the day i'm happy.

Oh well as long as you think it's fine and you're happy. That completely changes things.

*Sigh* It's like talking to children.

Yes, yes it is.

[PM-R33]

Fine you want to play this game, let's go.

That idea is simple, but it's the Forrest Gump type of simple not the easy fix type of simple. Aiming your lights down gives you a big hotspot in front of the car, which on initial glance seems great wow look at all that light on the road, but you are most likely getting less light thrown on the distant road which is where you need it most. I'd rather know about something on the road when it's 200m in front of me not when it's 50m in front of me.

Where did I say I pointed it straight down at the road? Nowhere. I said I adjusted it down a little bit because when I put the HID's in I found the light was shining a hell of a lot higher than previously. I also found that there was now more light shining towards the drivers side so after a bit of driving around and getting friends to drive infront or next to, we played around with them until I found them to not be that bad. Sure they are not perfect like halogen bulbs, however i still get a lot more distance over my normal bulbs and a lot more clarity. To make such a big deal about making it seem like I drive around with high beams on or something is a joke. Driving across from some one with high beams clearly blinds you and you can not see. My HID's are NOTHING like that. Only way I can see that being sorted is you fly up here and have a look for yourself, agree that it actually aint that bad, I slap you across the face and then you're on your merry way home.

Lemmings will happily follow each other off a cliff without complaining. So you're a good customer of Dave's HID kits, does that automatically mean that they are good just because you have bought 5 pairs? I fail to see a causal relationship between those two concepts.

I said the kits aren't that bad and I have played around with them on five different cars and set them up to be pretty good. Some cars they were a lot better than on others, mainly the Monaro and the Mazda 3.

So applying logic, reason and optical physics as supporting evidence for why it's a brain dead idea in a headlight enclosure designed for a halogen bulb is unreasonable? Oh I guess I'll just have to think less, then it will seem OK.

No offence, but as a nearly fully qualified Engineer who has touched on a bit of optics including convex, concave lenses and focal points and worked at Autobarn throughout uni and highschool speaking with suppliers of bulbs such as Philips, Narva and Lightforce i probably know a lot more about bulbs and HID's than yourself and much of the sheep on here that read about HID's being illegal and have been blinded by cars with HID's pointing in random locations so suddenly they are so called experts.

You sound like a Jehovas Witness who was peddling his faith. Will these headlights wipe my arse for me too?

I listed some positive's about HID's and you come back with that dribble.

It's not about wanting or liking them - I do want HIDs. It's about them being utterly unsuited for our headlights. If someone could show me an acceptable cutoff pattern I would buy a set and shut up. I've asked the question on a number of occasions, nobody has posted pics, including vendors on this forum. Surely if they had more to gain than to lose by posting pics of the cutoff pattern, they would? It would only ever help their sales!

Well how about you stop being a tight arse, fork out $100 on some, test them, play around with them a bit and determine for yourself what you think of them like I did. If I found that every second person flashed me beacause they were blinded or had everyone tell me that it's way to dangerous I would have gladly taken them out. The fact is even though I understand the lights aren't specifically made for our headlights and it is not approved to fit them (which quite frankly if your going to ride that band wagon list all the modifications done to your car and i gaurantee i'll find one that aint ADR approved) it aint that bad once you play around with them a bit.

And yet the logic and reasoning behind that website and our laws has had no effect on you. Nice.

I'm not a sheep. I will make my own mind up on whether what I believe to be a wrong or right choice. Half the parts on our cars are not legal, so once again, don't bring the law into this. And the main reasons HID's are not to be fitted to normal headlights in most countries is due to them not having auto leveling functions or a headlight cleaning system due to HID's giving out more glare than halogens even in cars designed for HID lights. I understand the logic, there is a lot of science invovled with a lot of parts on our cars. I'm saying that yes the logic and physics proves HID's are not suited for our headlights and does not give a perfect light output and focal point, however the light output it does give is hardly something to make such a big deal about and make it seem like you are endangering every driver on the road and are going to kill some one. I mean come on, seriously. Adjust the lights slightly, play around with them until you find a bit of a middle ground and you are fine.

Oh well as long as you think it's fine and you're happy. That completely changes things.

Yes I do think i'm happy because unlike you i know what the light out put is on MY car.

Just one last thing, it's 2010, HID conversions are not new and the OP asked a simple few questions that I answered for him including the Bi-Xenon question, so why on earth are we even discussing this in such great detail now?

Edited June 24, 2010 by PM-R33

[Kinks]

Only way I can see that being sorted is you fly up here and have a look for yourself, agree that it actually aint that bad, I slap you across the face and then you're on your merry way home.

Or.. you know.. someone could post pics showing the results when it's done properly (and ideally, directions on achieving this). Dave's been in this thread and said that 90% of people don't adjust their headlights properly when fitting HIDs. Why is that? Are people just too stupid or is there a lack of clear instructions provided with the kits ensuring they are used properly? Maybe there should be a public service announcement (I'm dead serious about this, I've seen enough people with R33s and blinding HIDs that fixing this problem would help EVERYONE).

I said the kits aren't that bad and I have played around with them on five different cars and set them up to be pretty good. Some cars they were a lot better than on others, mainly the Monaro and the Mazda 3.

Which goes to show it has everything to do with reflector design, and also how closely the arc in an HID matches the position of the filament in a halogen bulb. Specific to R33s, I have seen a dozen people who blinded everyone and one person whose HID lights were not dazzling and annoying. Aha! they do exist! But I have no idea how far down he aimed his lights to achieve that, it was a long time ago. If I had a chance to look at the beam pattern more closely and find out which kit it was I would have bought a set.

No offence, but as a nearly fully qualified Engineer who has touched on a bit of optics including convex, concave lenses and focal points and worked at Autobarn throughout uni and highschool speaking with suppliers of bulbs such as Philips, Narva and Lightforce i probably know a lot more about bulbs and HID's than yourself and much of the sheep on here that read about HID's being illegal and have been blinded by cars with HID's pointing in random locations so suddenly they are so called experts.

None taken, I'm a qualified engineer. I'm also a keen photographer so I've spent plenty of time looking through lenses.

Well how about you stop being a tight arse, fork out $100 on some, test them, play around with them a bit and determine for yourself what you think of them like I did. If I found that every second person flashed me beacause they were blinded or had everyone tell me that it's way to dangerous I would have gladly taken them out. The fact is even though I understand the lights aren't specifically made for our headlights and it is not approved to fit them (which quite frankly if your going to ride that band wagon list all the modifications done to your car and i gaurantee i'll find one that aint ADR approved) it aint that bad once you play around with them a bit.

I'm not going to fork out my money on an experiment particularly when none of the pics I've seen of HIDs in R33 housings show acceptable beam patterns. Not even if it was $1, since all of the pics I've seen demonstrate the exact opposite. Until you bit and posted a proper reply I had no idea whether you were part of the 90% shining light everything and thinking it was wonderful or the 10% who actually took the time to try and make it work properly.

I'm not a sheep. I will make my own mind up on whether what I believe to be a wrong or right choice. Half the parts on our cars are not legal, so once again, don't bring the law into this. And the main reasons HID's are not to be fitted to normal headlights in most countries is due to them not having auto leveling functions or a headlight cleaning system due to HID's giving out more glare than halogens even in cars designed for HID lights. I understand the logic, there is a lot of science invovled with a lot of parts on our cars. I'm saying that yes the logic and physics proves HID's are not suited for our headlights and does not give a perfect light output and focal point, however the light output it does give is hardly something to make such a big deal about and make it seem like you are endangering every driver on the road and are going to kill some one. I mean come on, seriously. Adjust the lights slightly, play around with them until you find a bit of a middle ground and you are fine.

I disagree with plenty of laws, although I recognise that they're there to keep the lowest common denominator safe. In this case with the majority of HID kits being poorly fitted I completely agree with them being illegal.

Just one last thing, it's 2010, HID conversions are not new and the OP asked a simple few questions that I answered for him including the Bi-Xenon question, so why on earth are we even discussing this in such great detail now?

I believe it was your cavalier attitude that you knew what you were doing and we should simply trust you on face value. I respect what you've said in your last post. Unfortunately past evidence on this forum has shown that the vast majority of HID installations have thrown glare everywhere with R33s. Whether it's the bulb's fault (inaccurate construction) or lack of correct aiming can't be easily determined, but since nobody has posted on here saying "this is what I did, here's the cutoff before and after and a shot down the road showing improved lighting on the bitumen (no massive hotspots) and minimal increase in upwards glare" it's enough to tell me I'm probably wasting my money by buying a kit. I could be wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong because I've wanted HIDs ever since I bought the car but not at the expense of other road users.

[PM-R33]

Ok finally we are getting somewhere and can speak in a more intelligent mannar. I take back certain sly comments I may have made since I can now see that you know what you are talking about and are after an actual true understanding, not just getting up me for having HID's, must be an Engineer thing ay

Or.. you know.. someone could post pics showing the results when it's done properly (and ideally, directions on achieving this). Dave's been in this thread and said that 90% of people don't adjust their headlights properly when fitting HIDs. Why is that? Are people just too stupid or is there a lack of clear instructions provided with the kits ensuring they are used properly? Maybe there should be a public service announcement (I'm dead serious about this, I've seen enough people with R33s and blinding HIDs that fixing this problem would help EVERYONE).

Ok well first thing is no, there are no instructions that I have ever come across, including the big dollar Philips HID kits I used to sell that talk about headlight adjustment. So I do believe that 99% of people just wack them in and off they go. This here would be the first big problem. Some cars it may be fine, but obviously for a lot, probably not.

When I first installed the kit I took the car for a spin straight away to see what it was like as my kit was the first one I did. Straight away had every fifth person flashing me and noticed that the light output shone out extremely far and seemed to angle out to the side of the car a lot. As you know lights in Australia are ment to point left to not blind on coming traffic as much. So went back home and starting playing around with them by shining them on a wall. Yep there were hotspots and the lights were shining in bad locations. Kept playing around with them until I got them to a point where I no longer got flashed and had friends say it was no longer blinding.

They are still very bright and from a distance in a pack of cars my lights stand out like dogs balls, however they don't stand out in the way as a high beam would. Hence never had problems with police.

Which goes to show it has everything to do with reflector design, and also how closely the arc in an HID matches the position of the filament in a halogen bulb. Specific to R33s, I have seen a dozen people who blinded everyone and one person whose HID lights were not dazzling and annoying. Aha! they do exist! But I have no idea how far down he aimed his lights to achieve that, it was a long time ago. If I had a chance to look at the beam pattern more closely and find out which kit it was I would have bought a set.

Definetely agree. The Monaro took the best from the HID's mainly due to modern projector headlights (VZ Monaro lights) and don't look as glarey as mine at all and didn't need much mucking around with realigning. They also seem to produce a much clearer light if you can understand what i mean.

I'm not going to fork out my money on an experiment particularly when none of the pics I've seen of HIDs in R33 housings show acceptable beam patterns. Not even if it was $1, since all of the pics I've seen demonstrate the exact opposite. Until you bit and posted a proper reply I had no idea whether you were part of the 90% shining light everything and thinking it was wonderful or the 10% who actually took the time to try and make it work properly.

Like I kept saying and hence my comment to Dan. I wasn't saying I was happy because I thought the lights were awesome and didn't care about other drivers. I ment I was happy because I got them to a point where they were not a problem for other drivers and gave me the benefits that I was after.

I have had normal every day halogen yellow bulbs that I hated. Then went to Philips Crystal Vision bulbs which I liked a lot better due to the softer light they gave which made things a lot clearer and natural looking, however was dissapointed by their overall brightness and distance. Then obviously went to try the HID's after ages of convincing myself and never looked back.

I disagree with plenty of laws, although I recognise that they're there to keep the lowest common denominator safe. In this case with the majority of HID kits being poorly fitted I completely agree with them being illegal.

Like I said I completely understand why they are illegal, however personally with the kits I have installed I don't find them to be a problem. I have driven with plenty of friends cars in a group (hell every second person has HID's nowadays) and don't find them to a be a problem personally. Even with ones that are quite obviously pointing all over the place, I still don't really find it to be that bad, it isn't like a high beam that completely makes you not see.

I believe it was your cavalier attitude that you knew what you were doing and we should simply trust you on face value. I respect what you've said in your last post. Unfortunately past evidence on this forum has shown that the vast majority of HID installations have thrown glare everywhere with R33s. Whether it's the bulb's fault (inaccurate construction) or lack of correct aiming can't be easily determined, but since nobody has posted on here saying "this is what I did, here's the cutoff before and after and a shot down the road showing improved lighting on the bitumen (no massive hotspots) and minimal increase in upwards glare" it's enough to tell me I'm probably wasting my money by buying a kit. I could be wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong because I've wanted HIDs ever since I bought the car but not at the expense of other road users.

Fair enough. Like I said if you ever decide to, give them a shot yourself and see how you feel about them. You might love them and end up getting into a debate about them with some one in a few years time lol.

Edited June 24, 2010 by PM-R33

[Kinks]

Definetely agree. The Monaro took the best from the HID's mainly due to modern projector headlights (VZ Monaro lights) and don't look as glarey as mine at all and didn't need much mucking around with realigning. They also seem to produce a much clearer light if you can understand what i mean.

Projectors are a different kettle of fish, because there's a metal screen that provides a sharper cutoff pattern and reduces glare. The only difference with them is light distribution and I've seen R32 HID conversions that look quite reasonable in that regard as they use projectors. Obviously a full housing swap would be a better bet, as headlight design in general has come a long way since then. Comparing HID globes in an R32 housing and an R32 headlamp with a full housing swap to a euro HID projector - the euro one looks insanely good just like a new car's.

I have had normal every day halogen yellow bulbs that I hated. Then went to Philips Crystal Vision bulbs which I liked a lot better due to the softer light they gave which made things a lot clearer and natural looking, however was dissapointed by their overall brightness and distance. Then obviously went to try the HID's after ages of convincing myself and never looked back.

Yeah I have used Plus 50's in the past and they were quite good compared with your $2 generic bulb that is yellow and dim by comparison. I currently have Philips bluevision in which I think is not as blue as the crystal vision (go figure - the crystal vision has a darker blue tint on the bulb) - but basically any bulb with a blue coating is going to drop your overall light output and I'd agree with what you've found that the light looks nice but ultimate brightness isn't as good as a clear bulb.