R32 Mcpherson Strut Conversion

[nisskid]

Ok, i can see this thread being met with resistance for 2 main reason:

1: it probably should be in the suspension tech section

2: who the f**k would want to put mac strut in a skyline?

well to answer:

1: I need some people with a clue, and unfortunately, questions that aren't asking what coilover to buy, what's this noise, or will these wheels fit, in the sus section, go pretty much unanswered, and i know people in here have experience with both d/wishbone and mac strut setups.

2: It's mostly a drift thing, quite simply the S-chassis is taken care of better in the A/M for drift specific modifications, most namely knuckles, getting rid of the d/wishbone setup will allow me to get more lock.

I guess my question is, from a geometry stand point, what are people's thoughts on the conversion? Would i be attempting the unthinkable? I'm still unsure whether it's worth sticking with the d/wishbone setup and getting as much lock out of that as possible, or whether the disadvantages of the mac strut setup will outweigh any benefits.

This is an example of the conversion, undertaken by driftworks:

http://www.driftworks.com/2010/06/the-drif...sion-explained/

[sav man]

have you looked at the modified knuckles for the r32? mcferson strut or not, the r32 wheel sits in the wrong spot in the guard for mega lock http://kpi.squarespace.com/steering-angle-modifications/ shows what i mean. Compare where the full locked wheel on the 350 sits compared to the r32 in the guard. The r32 wheel sits fearther back, and likes to rub/damage the guard.

Damo has looked at converting to a mcferson in his drift car a few times, and has been talked out of it by people with race suspension know how.

Has anyone worked out what the conversion will do to roll centre/bump steer/dynamic camber, and what all of that will do to the overall handeling of the car.

[Beer Baron]

honestly if you truly think wishbones and lack of aftermarket drift support for R32s is holding you back then I would say rather than demote the R32 from wishbones to macpherson strut just buy a silvia! it has the machpherson strut in there and working and has the extensive aftermarket support you long for. use the R32 for something else.

not being a smart arse either. silvias are not exactly big money to buy. even well set-up ones can be had pretty cheap from time to time. hell I drive and drift one.

[DJRIFT]

Dooo Iiiitttt.

check out this link for some basic info and while the bloke went a bit over the top with the tubbing its still the go. http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/63666-taff-tune...huge-no-no.html

I looked into once or twice but keep being talked out of it. If you do doit thoe be sure to use s14 or s15 stuff for multiple reasons ill get to.

its all a bit of reverse engineering to get to just how easy it is. if you put a Rb engine in a S chassis than you change the cross member. but you dont need to change the lower control arms. so first off the S chassis lower contol arms will fit right in. the castor rods mount up the same between the r32 and S chassis so you put in some S14 lower control arms (longer than S13) and use the r32 castor rods.

Note. ive never confirmed this but apparently the taper on the ball joints is different between S14 and R33 lower control arms. other than that they are near identical.

put in your modified knuckles and some coil overs.

ive never gotten to the part of where to mount the top hats of the coil overs and after seeing the drift works link im surprised by how far back they are.

With my personal experience chasing lock. add lock spacers (first thing) re-centre the rack. the first thing you hit is the chassis rail. A bash it with a hammer. B put GTR guards on and push out the track with r33 lower control arms. then modify the lock stops. and move the rack forward, hard mounted to bracketry. with the rigth wheel size and offset the next place you will rub is the foot wells. the best thing ive found thoe is having the room within the GTR guards.

Also Nigel Petery is making modded knuckles for a r32

if you did do it make sure you run S14 knuckles as the s13 knuckles flex with big brakes on them as friends of mine have found.

i could go on but thats enough for now.

[DJRIFT]

after reading that thread on the drift works car it was interesting to see that they didnt achieve any more absolute lock than the r32 setup but improved the ackerman. which can be achieved by some NP modded r32 knuckles

see talked my self out of it again

[nisskid]

have you looked at the modified knuckles for the r32? mcferson strut or not, the r32 wheel sits in the wrong spot in the guard for mega lock http://kpi.squarespace.com/steering-angle-modifications/ shows what i mean. Compare where the full locked wheel on the 350 sits compared to the r32 in the guard. The r32 wheel sits fearther back, and likes to rub/damage the guard.

Damo has looked at converting to a mcferson in his drift car a few times, and has been talked out of it by people with race suspension know how.

Has anyone worked out what the conversion will do to roll centre/bump steer/dynamic camber, and what all of that will do to the overall handeling of the car.

i have NP wonder knuckles atm im getting good lock, but i want to start getting ridiculous.

im not worried about guard rubbing atm, and im running 225/45's on 17x9 -5, so i have a decent amount of clearance from chassis rail and caster rods.

the idea of going with the s14 front end just seems to be easy, simplifies the front end, and gives me an easy lock solution. i think if it was a dedicated circuit car, it would be a different story, but atm it see's more drift, and at a competitive level, so that's the priority. s14's are a better drift car, its just im a skyline man, and always will be.

[nisskid]

after reading that thread on the drift works car it was interesting to see that they didnt achieve any more absolute lock than the r32 setup but improved the ackerman. which can be achieved by some NP modded r32 knuckles

see talked my self out of it again

yeh but my car is much different to the driftworks 32, much different drifting, they are ultimately a competition car, mine is about pushing it to the limit, ridiculous entries etc, consistency and speed arent my main focus. they wouldnt use much more angle as simple they will lose a bit of speed with too much angle

[nisskid]

honestly if you truly think wishbones and lack of aftermarket drift support for R32s is holding you back then I would say rather than demote the R32 from wishbones to macpherson strut just buy a silvia! it has the machpherson strut in there and working and has the extensive aftermarket support you long for. use the R32 for something else.

not being a smart arse either. silvias are not exactly big money to buy. even well set-up ones can be had pretty cheap from time to time. hell I drive and drift one.

i have spent too much $$ and too much time to throw it away, it would make a good circuit car, but it just isnt my focus atm, i couldnt handle seeing my 32 sitting around collecting dust, anyone who knows me and my car will tell you how much i love the thing, and to love the thing means seeing it getting used for what it was made for.

saying that, s14's are a better drift car, so i was thinking next visit to japan, ill buy a s14, modify the knuckles over there, drift it there, then transplant the subframe from it (after i modify it like i have my s13 one), then just chuck the whole front end on, including rack etc.

the front lower control arms will be modified, lengthened then made to suit delrin bushes to replace stock bushes, camber tops etc, that gives me solid mounting up front, camber adj etc etc

[Beer Baron]

fair enough. I can understand an illogical attachment to a car that is not exactly suited to it's purpose. hell truth be told GTRs are rubbish circuit cars. there are plenty of options out there that are cheaper and just as (more?) fun but something about driving a highly tuned GTR around a track means we keep coming back for more.

[nisskid]

fair enough. I can understand an illogical attachment to a car that is not exactly suited to it's purpose. hell truth be told GTRs are rubbish circuit cars. there are plenty of options out there that are cheaper and just as (more?) fun but something about driving a highly tuned GTR around a track means we keep coming back for more.

yeh definitely, im a skyline man through and through, have been since i was 10, its just a pity the 32's chassis is made out of cheese lol

[nisskid]

Has anyone worked out what the conversion will do to roll centre/bump steer/dynamic camber, and what all of that will do to the overall handeling of the car.

this is my main worry, i guess ill be the lab rat on this one, ill provide extensive coverage on it if i do, if anyone is interested

unfortunately my sponsor wasnt too happy last time i spent 2hrs on the aligner playing with bump steer while customer cars needed to be done, so will have to get on my knees to get an idea this time lol

[DJRIFT]

yeh but my car is much different to the driftworks 32, much different drifting, they are ultimately a competition car, mine is about pushing it to the limit, ridiculous entries etc, consistency and speed arent my main focus. they wouldnt use much more angle as simple they will lose a bit of speed with too much angle

Ok i dont really see why the drift works car is much different. they have modified the front end for a better drift setup. do you actualy have any data or proof that they are drifting with much different lock to yourself. It doesnt say that they only have 45deg of lock or any amount of lock and who is to say that the 32 front end wasnt modified before this meaning it already had tons of lock and the s14 setup gave no more lock (but how much lock???????????????) than the r32 setup BUT did give better ackerman. its like trying to do algebra at school. 2xL=A.

If you already have the maximum out of the r32 setup and belive heavily that if you had S14 front it would be even 5% better than go that way. Id be thinking that you should have a talk with a suspension gooroo about how to mount it all thoe as the drift works car has the struts sitting back on a fair angle meaning the geometry change on the wheel is probably far more superior than the s14 factory setup.

this is my main worry, i guess ill be the lab rat on this one, ill provide extensive coverage on it if i do, if anyone is interested

unfortunately my sponsor wasnt too happy last time i spent 2hrs on the aligner playing with bump steer while customer cars needed to be done, so will have to get on my knees to get an idea this time lol

the Key to the whole project woul be to actualy graph the wheel angles and changes made with bump steer and alike but as you throw in every new variable like camber toe and castor on top of shock top mounting you are going to have a tone of data to map. Its ok to say im going to use fancy pants bushes and lengthened arms but do you know what that will achieve? not with out starting from a single point. so unless you become mates with someone that has already done all this and can had you over all the relevent data than you will have to be a pioneer and take the error with the trial.

as far as McPherson V Double wish bone. double wish bone is superior for circuit but there is no proof to say that McPherson or D Wishbone is better for drift as there isnt any top level drift teams paying thousands for a race suspension engineer to plot all the data talked about above between a McPherson strut and D wishbone set up on any one car.

all you can go off is what top teams around the world are doing what. my guess would be that 90% of the leading world wide teams would be running McPherson.

so in my conclusion for your actual Question would be that McPherson is the better option for drifting. if drifting is your main focus and your unhappy with your current setup. change it.

[Risking]

If you want some actual info on the conversion what's involved and generic geometry you can expect from doing it shoot me a pm, I'll put you in touch with someone.

The conversion has been done before with mixed results. It won't give you any more lock and the ackerman angles are worse for an R32 if you use s14 upright.

There are better ways to do which work.

Bump steer is not the issue untill you go cutting and shutting arms

the issues are more to do with getting an castor on it without new shock towers and the shock angles you'll end up with.