The E85 Sparkplug Thread

[Simon-S14]

yeah but its E85... its prob too rich at start up

[Harey]

From my experience ethanol burns hotter and faster when under high boost pressures, a colder plug will be fine. I doubt I will be changing plugs just to get the engine to start better.

I though ethanol burnt colder?

I thought a hotter heat range spark plug was desired with E85?

[scotty nm35]

There's a lot of mis-information around. I was told 10 to 15 degrees advanced where it actually wants less timing on the dyno. It wont eat out you fuel lines either.

It has very strange burn qualities, burning slow and cold usually but apparently hotter and faster than petrol once under boost pressure (so it would depend how many psi you run). Everybody will tell you a different story but that is the fun of testing it.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

E85 is a tricky one... Cold start is a bitch, but it's not the sole purpose of this thread.

In the orig sparkplug thread there is 11ty pages and 11ty combinations, some that work and some that don't. That is what I hope to acheive here

[bradsm87]

CAR: S14 200SX (SR20DET with 9:1 comp)

POWER: 270rwkw

BOOST: 24psi

TYPE OF ETHANOL: E50 (50% just fuel E100/50% BP 98)

PLUG: BKR6EIX

GAP: 0.8mm

COLD START: Great in summer. Not too bad in winter. Was shit with 7's.

HOT: Perfect

I did heaps of research about spark plugs and when the ignition system is near it's limits like mine is, the smaller tip of Iridium plugs allow a spark with less required voltage. It doesn't have as much potential for a big hot spark like copper though so copper is still best if the ignition system can actually spark.

Used to run 7's but would cold start shit and missfire like all hell when u plant it after a bit of cruising. 6's are perfect.

[SimonR32]

CAR: R32 Gts-t with RB25DET

POWER: 385rwkw

TYPE OF ETHANOL: E42.5

PLUG: BCPR7ES

GAP: 0.6

COLD START: Fine

HOT: Fine

Started missing at 0.8 gapped plugs, which was fixed by gapping to 0.6

Might try and run some 6's at 0.8 next time it's on the dyno to see how that goes!

Edited January 6, 2011 by SimonR32

[DVS JEZ]

i would have thought to achieve better cold start you'd want to lean it off a fair bit.

how many tuners spend enough time on the cold start map anyway... the answer is not enough.

The reason it needs to be richer is when everything is cold when the fuel sprays out the inj it isnt atomised properly and sticks to the cold ports and valves etc so not much actually reaches the cylinder (too lean for combustion). Therefor a richer mix is needed so the correct amount needed is ready to burn. Once it starts and warms a little the mixtures can be leaned off back to target AFR

[The Dan]

How many of you guys are getting your tune done with EGT sensors in each port?

[DVS JEZ]

Waaay to much work and money. I researched it for a while trying to find the best way to do it cost efficiently using the dump pipe. Especially on a GTR with crappy access to the runners.

Whats the main reason YOU would want egt of each runner?

if the inj are flowing the same and the rail has sudficient/even flow and pressure would u still use it?

[HYPED6]

I run E85, RB26 with standard pistons and compression. 292 @ 10.2 cams.

Absolutely no dramas with cold starts. It may be that its hotter up here than down south but at 5 - 10deg in the morning its perfect.

CAR: 32GTR

POWER:607 rwhp with 100 shot NOS

TYPE OF ETHANOL: E85 Caltex

PLUG:Bcpr6es

GAP:0.8

COLD START:Good

HOT: Good too

Edited January 6, 2011 by HYPED6

[scotty nm35]

I was thinking about individual egt but before the turbine seemed like such a silly idea incase one breaks off. I decided on one ex temp sensor right at the turbine outlet and a wideband.

Im currently running 1.1 gap on Denso Iridium IKH22's, the cold plugs I originally ran with bp98. I only have a small issue with spark before the engine oil has reached operating temp. (probably running too rich) No starting issues at all since the change to Eflex.

[The Dan]

If you don't run individual EGT's in each runner then don't bother using E85 coz you're wasting your time. You'll have no idea what temps you are at and therefore the tune could be miles off. Not so important with pump fuel as you can tune easily to AFR but with E85, every setup is potentially different which means one of you could be 1000deg egt and the next person with the same engine and turbo could be 600deg egts. 0.8 lambda doesn't run true in every case with E85, or at least that's what we found while having our cars tuned with it

[scotty nm35]

Haha, I had better convert back then...

How is the exhaust temp going to change so radically within 3 inches? Keeping to a realistic temp at the turbo outlet should give an accurate idea of what is happening. I realise there is variation between the cylinders but how many tuners are that anal to fit individual egt for each port on a road car? Race or drag I could understand.

In my case, e85 is the best mod I have done, and all it cost me was filling at a different servo.

[Piggaz]

Hmm. Looks like my plugs are waaaayy too cold. BCPR9ES-8. No wonder its coughing like a asthmatic 100 kms after pulling them in.

[The Dan]

Haha, I had better convert back then...

How is the exhaust temp going to change so radically within 3 inches? Keeping to a realistic temp at the turbo outlet should give an accurate idea of what is happening. I realise there is variation between the cylinders but how many tuners are that anal to fit individual egt for each port on a road car? Race or drag I could understand.

In my case, e85 is the best mod I have done, and all it cost me was filling at a different servo.

When people start blowing engines up all over the place, then maybe others will sit up and take notice. Just like all the v8 supercar teams did

[SimonR32]

If you don't run individual EGT's in each runner then don't bother using E85 coz you're wasting your time.

When people start blowing engines up all over the place, then maybe others will sit up and take notice. Just like all the v8 supercar teams did

Edited January 7, 2011 by SimonR32

[scotty nm35]

When people start blowing engines up all over the place, then maybe others will sit up and take notice. Just like all the v8 supercar teams did

lol.

The V8 supercar teams were trying to be smart and run very lean to lighten their massive fuel load, added to the fact they were wringing their engines around a racetrack at full noise. The laws of physics cant be bent unfortunately.

I have noticed a decent lowering my of exhaust temps on the dyno and the road, even with 3psi more boost on a maxed turbo. I would suggest running an exhaust temp gauge mounted at the turbine outlet just to make sure the temps aren't sky-rocketing.

I've been running ethanol for almost a year with no engines exploding and my fuel lines are still intact. Am I just lucky or do I have a great tuner?

[HYPED6]

To get the most out of E85, EGT's are a very help full tool. Well any fuel for that matter.

ERD is right, some engines (highly strung boosted ones) will be quite happy at 0.90-0.95 Lambda. Good Temps, and making more power than richer mixtures.

Where some need more than .078 Lambda for temps and some times have no adverse effect on power out put at all.

Its a case by case really. E85 is very forgiving. You can over advance it, run it lean and its still pretty safe on pistons.

Over advancing however puts massive loads on big end bearings and gudgeon pins. But this will come back to your engine builder with "but it didn't ping, the pistons are perfect!"

Sorry off topic has one one asked the V8 guys what ignition timing they run????? I believe there biggest complaint is the massive amount of heat exhaust E85 generates.

I am also under the understanding that they have a limit on total ignition timing that can be run at full load.

I believe this was started in the 98 octane era to create a parity with the teams.

Back on topic ........ I will run a set of 9's or 10's in my gtr and see if there are differences that I can find with starting cold.

[scotty nm35]

Back on topic ........ I will run a set of 9's or 10's in my gtr and see if there are differences that I can find with starting cold.

Cold starts in Queensland in summer shouldn't give you too many headaches.

I only have a problem at under 10 degrees, below 5 it wont start at all without a squirt of petrol. (The electronic throttle wont let me give it some on startup to dump fuel in.)

[The Dan]

I don't find your pictures funny

lol.

The V8 supercar teams were trying to be smart and run very lean to lighten their massive fuel load, added to the fact they were wringing their engines around a racetrack at full noise. The laws of physics cant be bent unfortunately.

I have noticed a decent lowering my of exhaust temps on the dyno and the road, even with 3psi more boost on a maxed turbo. I would suggest running an exhaust temp gauge mounted at the turbine outlet just to make sure the temps aren't sky-rocketing.

I've been running ethanol for almost a year with no engines exploding and my fuel lines are still intact. Am I just lucky or do I have a great tuner?

And I don't think your emoticon is witty

Sure, you may be fine. But you all prance around like you know every scenario for every engine ever built. People will read this shit and think they have knowledge enough to do it themselves. Armed with the peace of mind that SAU forum goers have given them. Well I can tell you it's not that simple. Make jokes all you like and have your fun now. Yes your tuner is probably doing ok. If you don't have any idea of temps in your exhaust, at a minimum at the exit of the turbine, then you could probably make another 50-100hp at the wheels and not risk anything. Or.....you could already be running over 1000 degrees and not even know it.

Knowing temps at the runner will not save your turbo, however. As we have found, a restrictive turbine housing creates so much of a heat build up, that 750 in the runner can mean over 1000 at the turbine. Then 1 inch back in the dump it will still drop at least 100degrees out.

Tuning Noels car to 0.8 lambda with 7's in, cold start was f**ked, missfired its arse off, tuned to 0.95 lambda and egt's went from 600 to 750 at the cylinder head.

The point I was making about it being a waste of time without EGT's is you are moving to E85 to make more power/torque, you aren't going to be tuning it to it's potential without knowing temp and, therefore, wasting your time