Water/meth Injection

[TiTAN]

Some good info there Rekin, i originally dismissed Aquamist since i seen a guy flow test, what may of been of a older style pump and with a 2 nozzle setup could only get a max of 320cc/min, but i just seen on the site they claim the new pumps run out of flow at 1600cc.. i really do like their tanks.. but i dont like the idea of the pump always being on? or does it just come on n off enough to leave the lines pressurised.

Snow Performance claim they're nozzles get good atomization, even at low pressures.. im not worried about the pressure when it starts, but im a little concerned when i lift off the throttle quickly and put it back on (like when your spinnin tyres playing with the throttle), that with the amount im planning to inject, i may end up with way more mixture in the engine than it can handle and end up with some serious hesitation issues.. has anyone had any problems with this??

The newer 220psi pumps from these companies are meant to hold a steady 220psi.. so theoretically they shouldnt pulse as much, not sure if they will still pulse when they are still starting up...

Jarrod

how much are you planing to inject? i have a 500-600cc nozzle on mine and havent noticed any hesitation issues.

[Rekin]

Some good info there Rekin, i originally dismissed Aquamist since i seen a guy flow test, what may of been of a older style pump and with a 2 nozzle setup could only get a max of 320cc/min, but i just seen on the site they claim the new pumps run out of flow at 1600cc.. i really do like their tanks.. but i dont like the idea of the pump always being on? or does it just come on n off enough to leave the lines pressurised.

Snow Performance claim they're nozzles get good atomization, even at low pressures.. im not worried about the pressure when it starts, but im a little concerned when i lift off the throttle quickly and put it back on (like when your spinnin tyres playing with the throttle), that with the amount im planning to inject, i may end up with way more mixture in the engine than it can handle and end up with some serious hesitation issues.. has anyone had any problems with this??

The newer 220psi pumps from these companies are meant to hold a steady 220psi.. so theoretically they shouldnt pulse as much, not sure if they will still pulse when they are still starting up...

Jarrod

The pump being on is exactly the same as your fuel pump. It is always on and providing constant pressure in the water lines. The controller then opens the nozzle depending how much to spray in. Just how fuel injectors work.

Snow Performance and others, have pumps which only turn on when they are activated. That means when it turns off, you will get dribbling of water into your intake due to no more pressure creating the atomizing spray. (refer to the 2 vids i posted earlier)

The hsf3 costs about $650USD compared to the other systems selling for $300USD. I took the plunge and bought one, its been sitting in its box for 3 months!

[TiTAN]

snow performance have a solenoid that closes the line off when the pump isnt powered to stop leakage under vac and gravity feeding.

[R31Nismoid]

You guys should sit down and workout what you all need - come up with a kit and do a group buy IMO.

[jarrod83]

Yeh, i was hoping that they did something other than prevent siphoning, but haven't been able to find anything that suggested they could hold back any significant pressure... was looking at twin 375cc's

Price comparison: stage3 669, solenoid upgrade +50, safe injection +159 =878

HSF-6 899

not really a huge difference in price assuming theyre shipping rates arent extortion

how much was your shipping Rekin

At the end of the day, they look to be both great kits, i suppose it comes down to which ones offer the features you'll think you'll use/need more

Jarrod

[tridentt150v]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Wm...html&hl=wmi

[Rekin]

Yeh, i was hoping that they did something other than prevent siphoning, but haven't been able to find anything that suggested they could hold back any significant pressure... was looking at twin 375cc's

Price comparison: stage3 669, solenoid upgrade +50, safe injection +159 =878

HSF-6 899

not really a huge difference in price assuming theyre shipping rates arent extortion

how much was your shipping Rekin

At the end of the day, they look to be both great kits, i suppose it comes down to which ones offer the features you'll think you'll use/need more

Jarrod

HSF-6 is overkill, the HSF-3 is more than plenty. (and cheaper too)

I paid $44USD for shipping from http://howertonengineering.com/

[XRATED]

a cop looks under the bonnet/in the boot and sees a nos system and you are farked, this isnt the USA you cant have a connected nos system on the street legally no matter who you get to say its safe.

Thankyou captain obvious. But you can run it at the track, where you will be doing most of the hard work... Are you going to run a knife edge tune and water/meth on the street all the time? I wouldn't, there's no need.... your not going to use 400kw on the street very often.

BTW.. nitrous is no more dangerous in a vehicle than gasoline or LPG. In fact N20 is innert and stored better...

Water/meth isn't huge in the states either... most guys are running it because availability to good fuel is limmited.... (then they see the numbers us Aussies are getting out of the same engine/turbo combo's and they want the same- so they up the knock theshold and octane with WMI).

... it is cool running around the streets in a car with 30lb of nitrous on tap (currently in the US) though. HA HA!!

Justin.

[geraus]

This product sounds good, so does it spray water into the intercooler?

[tridentt150v]

your not going to use 400kw on the street very often.

Justin.

Maybe not in the city??? but out on the open road overtaking a couple of B doubles is a very normal activity and the ability to hammer it around them is very handy. The less time you spend on the other side of the road, the better off you are.

You may not use all 400kw all the time, but you definitely appreciate the urgency of the motor when you put the foot down and go!!!

[tridentt150v]

This product sounds good, so does it spray water into the intercooler?

No!!! 80-100mm before the TB. I think there is a pic in my thread showing this.

[jarrod83]

I looked at the HSF-3, but i thought it didnt have the flow sensor which was an extra 300, turns out it does... so the HSV-6 doesn't offers anything more, just more adjustments, the HSV-6 flow control module does look like its been put together a little tidier, but thats about it. Do you know if the 160psi aquamist pumps are comparable to the 220 psi shurflo ones??

Theyre's other uses for water meth tho besides knife edged tunes.. even if u only get an extra 20rwhp, but manage to add a descent amount of safety into your tune provided the wmi kit is working properly.. thats a gain to me. Hell ive spent a hell of a lot more with alot less gained. Plus im pretty keen on the idea of keeping the intake temps down. Of all my friends that have nos, i dont think any of them use it any more, lol.. tho i can half see water meth ending up that way

Any idea anyone on how long a 20litre tank will last before it goes bad?? will it keep in a good quality sealed container??. Id prefer to have a big tank that u fill up every few months.

Cheers

Jarrod

[Rekin]

Aquamist seem to know what they are doing so have no doubts in their pump selection. Send an email to howerton engineering and ask them, they are really helpful.

60Ltr fuel tank

10% = 6Ltr of water/methanol required

50:50 ratio of methanol and water = 3Ltrs of methanol & 3 ltrs of water required per 60Ltrs of fuel

Assume 60Ltrs fuel consumption per week (month = 4 weeks~)

4*3 = 12Ltrs of methanol required per month

So 20Ltrs should last you about 2 months, depending how you drive ofcourse.

If its sealed properly with no way of water entering. (methanol absorbs water, so once you mix water and meth, you will have less volume than you started off with due to the absorption)

So keep it sealed properly and it should be fine.

[WARLORD]

a check valve befor tthe nozzle is a good idea.

these guys make the best nozzle ive used 2 different ones the check valves are good to. : http://www.alcohol-injection.com/

best tank ive seen and strongest pumps: www.coolingmist.com/

ive dealt with them and had good dealings with them.

this is based on my opinion and my use of the products great with nos,i use googee methanol 50/50 with distilled water.ive had no detonation at all. car has not been tuned with it on a dyno but works well with 3-5 psi more boost.i only got it for my nos setup but its worked well with every day running so far.

then pics of some of he set up are here http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Mo...html&st=160

this is a post i did a while ago http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Wa...on-t281683.html

Edited June 26, 2010 by WARLORD

[mattis96]

The placement of the check valve doesn't matter that much as long as it is in line somewhere? Or is it better off closer to the injector? I put mine close to the tank but I will change it if it's wise to do?

[tridentt150v]

mattis96, SP say as close to the nozzle as you can. The solenoid is set to open when your inje ctor and/or boost level is reached, so only sprays when its open and only opens when it sprays.

But the main reason for having it is so that you don't drain your whole reservoir into your motor esp. if you park nose down on a hill. So what you have done is set your system to drain your hose length into your combustion chamber. If you aren't using your car then this fluid will pass your rings and find its way into your oil. If for some reason it doesn't get past your rings than there is the chance of hydraulic lock. ie when you go to start your motor you will be compressing water/meth and this will bend conrods/lift heads/bad shit.

Having said that the length of your hose would maybe not have that much fluid in it and it may not be all that bad + if you don't park in a steep driveway or on a hill you may never ever have a problem - but I'd change it just in case.

[Rekin]

I contacted PowerPlus fuels ( http://www.powerplusfuel.com.au/racing-fuels.php ) if they can supply a 50:50 blend of Methanol/Water or a high quality methylated spirit (98% ethanol + 2% methanol)

The ceo emailed me saying they can provide either blend in 20Ltr or 200Ltr drums!

I'll be emailing to ask about costs. This is great news! No hazchem suit for me when dealing with 100% methanol!

[WARLORD]

The placement of the check valve doesn't matter that much as long as it is in line somewhere? Or is it better off closer to the injector? I put mine close to the tank but I will change it if it's wise to do?

closer to the injector so the pressure is always in the line or you will get a delay.i run two but thats just me one at the tank and one at the injector

Edited July 1, 2010 by WARLORD

[XRATED]

Maybe not in the city??? but out on the open road overtaking a couple of B doubles is a very normal activity and the ability to hammer it around them is very handy. The less time you spend on the other side of the road, the better off you are.

You may not use all 400kw all the time, but you definitely appreciate the urgency of the motor when you put the foot down and go!!!

Dude... if you NEED 400kw to overtake, your doing somthing wrong.

There's nothing you can't do on the street with 300kw that you can do with 400... other than taking down a Lambo or Mclaren. So what's the need to run a knife edge WMI tune on the street? Overtaking? Come on dude...

J.

[tridentt150v]

^^^ how often do you get out past the town limits?? Do you feel threatened when you see insects on your screen, a bit jumpy at the thought of grass and tree's, can't get your head around lines of trucks and single lanes???

Go tell your idea's to the nearest R1/Fireblade/GSXR/Speed Triple/Hayabusa/Ducati etc etc etc and see what they all say, most big bikes have a power to weight ratio that dwarfs 400rwkw.

TBH I only have 300, and I use the WMI for controlling detonation, but I'll aiming for more and might make 400-450rwkw soon and I'll still want more - we always do.

And at the end of the day, once you have done and paid for your mods, driving a 400kw car isn't all that much more expensive than driving a 300kw car on the open road. If your cruisin' and not boosting all the time then your really driving a +2 litre in line 6, which is an economical car. Lets face it, the emphasis is on fun [in a driving responsibly sense].