Foglights? Got Told Off By A Cop... Pretty Sure It Comes On Standard Mate...

[PM-R33]

for example HIDS are actually illegal in Britain but many cars now come with them stock

HID's aren't illegal in Britain Fitting HID's to a car not designed for HID's is illegal, same as most places in the world.

[JEPPE]

Interesting little fact most Aussies dont know, in most European countries you are required to drive around with daytime driving lights to make the car more visible. This may include the low beams automatically coming on when the vehicle is started or other additonal white/yellow/amber lighting. Seems in Aus we are the complete opposite lol.

Maybe that's because most European summers are like our winter

[PM-R33]

You've never been to Europe im assuming? I think you're missing the point.

[JEPPE]

Actually I've been to quite a few places in Europe, I stayed in Italy for 4 months. But don't you think that weather would have an influence on visibility? That's all I was saying, maybe it's not your point, it was just a comment.

[jjskyline79]

HID's aren't illegal in Britain Fitting HID's to a car not designed for HID's is illegal, same as most places in the world.

Actually they are would you like to read a copy of the legilastion????

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

please take note of the following

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

Edited June 27, 2010 by jjskyline79

[jjskyline79]

Maybe that's because most European summers are like our winter

well Britain at least yes

the high way code says something along the lines of lights shall be used when it's dark and in adverse weather conditions. The sun shining in the uk could be classed as an adverse weather condition.

[PM-R33]

Actually they are would you like to read a copy of the legilastion????

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

please take note of the following

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

Lol ummmm did you even read the link you just gave me It pretty much says exactly what I said and even the main heading is what I said "Aftermarket HID headlamps".

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

So as I said, factory HID headlights that comply to regulations (pretty much every new car nowadays) are legal, even fitting a headlight from a vehicle that came with HID's is legal to do; hence people do projector retrofits. It is only illegal to fit HID's to cars that are not designed for HID's.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

Edited June 28, 2010 by PM-R33

[jjskyline79]

You didn't read it proberly did you???

[PM-R33]

I read the entire thing, what on earth are you on about?

If a car has factory HID's that have approval they are legal - FACT

If a car has retrofitted factory HID headlights that have approval into their car that did not come with HID's they are legal - FACT

If a car has fitted HID's into their cars' headlights that are made for halogen bulbs, it is illegal - FACT

Pretty much the same law every where in the world.

God I can't believe im getting into another HID argument.

Are you seriously going to deny those three statements even though those three statements are backed up by the link that you supplied? So you are trying to say that every single new Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Landrover and the dozens of other car manufacturers that use HID's in nearly all their newest cars all have illegal headlights in Britain and can get done for them? Because that is what it appears like you are saying.

Edited June 28, 2010 by PM-R33

[jjskyline79]

Dose it not say please correct me if im wrong

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

now back to fog lights.

Edited June 29, 2010 by jjskyline79

[adznight]

Do you ride a motorbike?

If not, then I suggest having a go before you start making claims about them being harmless.

I'm sorry, how does this affect motorbike riders? You're trying to tell me you're blinded by low wattage halogen lamps during the day?

[Cowboy1600]

I'm sorry, how does this affect motorbike riders? You're trying to tell me you're blinded by low wattage halogen lamps during the day?

Read the whole thread.

And have you ridden a motorbike on the road?

[PM-R33]

Dose it not say please correct me if im wrong

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

now back to fog lights.

So you are referring to a legislation from 1989 that does not mention a particular type of light that did not exist at the time and a website that is simply saying that as a technicallity since there is no mention of HID's being approved therefore reading the law to a T, it must mean they are not approved.

There is also no mention of LED headlights, therefore they must be illegal according to the law to a T.

Fact is they are not illegal, the context of the law simply is not updated and therefore if you are reading it to a T it classifies anything not mentioned to be not approved, which we all know is not the case since modern lights are approved and have come a long way since 1989. I could probably put money on that if you find a legislation for tail lights there will be no mention of LED lighting, therefore LED tail lights would be illegal under the same technicallity.

You are simply hanging on a small technicallity which is obviously looked over since it is outdated. Therefore please stop telling people the wrong type of information without telling the whole story.

Now back to foglights.

Edited June 29, 2010 by PM-R33

[Cowboy1600]

Dose it not say please correct me if im wrong

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

now back to fog lights.

Did you read the heading of the article?

"Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps"

PM-R33 said:

If a car has factory HID's that have approval they are legal - FACT

If a car has retrofitted factory HID headlights that have approval into their car that did not come with HID's they are legal - FACT

If a car has fitted HID's into their cars' headlights that are made for halogen bulbs, it is illegal - FACT

and he is 100% correct on each point.

If a car is sold with factory HIDs then they are legal.

If you replace factory headlights with factory HIDs, they are legal.

If you whack a set of HIDs into the stock, non-HID fitting, illegal.

More from the article (emphasis is mine):

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

Know, back to phog lites.

[adznight]

Read the whole thread.

And have you ridden a motorbike on the road?

Yes, I've been reading the thread thanks, you may notice my post on the first page I'm sorry but I fail to see how a set of low wattage factory fitted halogen lamps make a difference.

The lights here are virtually the same as the R33 S2 (I've owned one). Being factory fitted they are adjusted correctly. They are a much dimmer light than my factory fitted Xeon's - this is the point I was making.

How can you say a set of FACTORY driving lights can dazzle you more so that a set of headlights? Non- factory lights - yes I'll agree, they are horrible and can point in literally any direction.

And no, I don't ride a motorbike though I do drive at night time..

[jjskyline79]

So you are referring to a legislation from 1989 that does not mention a particular type of light that did not exist at the time and a website that is simply saying that as a technicallity since there is no mention of HID's being approved therefore reading the law to a T, it must mean they are not approved.

There is also no mention of LED headlights, therefore they must be illegal according to the law to a T.

Fact is they are not illegal, the context of the law simply is not updated and therefore if you are reading it to a T it classifies anything not mentioned to be not approved, which we all know is not the case since modern lights are approved and have come a long way since 1989. I could probably put money on that if you find a legislation for tail lights there will be no mention of LED lighting, therefore LED tail lights would be illegal under the same technicallity.

You are simply hanging on a small technicallity which is obviously looked over since it is outdated. Therefore please stop telling people the wrong type of information without telling the whole story.

Now back to foglights.

Mate i dont write the rules thems are the rules for the UK as stupid as it is even if its from 1900 and frozen to death

[Cowboy1600]

Yes, I've been reading the thread thanks, you may notice my post on the first page I'm sorry but I fail to see how a set of low wattage factory fitted halogen lamps make a difference.

The lights here are virtually the same as the R33 S2 (I've owned one). Being factory fitted they are adjusted correctly. They are a much dimmer light than my factory fitted Xeon's - this is the point I was making.

How can you say a set of FACTORY driving lights can dazzle you more so that a set of headlights? Non- factory lights - yes I'll agree, they are horrible and can point in literally any direction.

And no, I don't ride a motorbike though I do drive at night time..

Put on a helmet, wipe the inside with a damp cloth, close it, then go go for a drive on dusk.

[bluejeans]

to sum this up in a few words

put super bright blue HIDS on your car - we will kick them in!

[adznight]

Mmmmmmmm-kay then....