P Platers To Advance To Open Licence Quicker

[kawasakirider]

If you guys read the last Sunday mail, check it out. If not, here's the article.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/teen-dr...6-1225881728215

Anyone have any solid info about this? I am keen as to do a course so I can get my opens!!!!!

[jrm]

To be devils advocate (and I don't entirely agree with the current 3-year period for P-platers) but it doesn't like like the best idea to me.

I personally believe *ALL* drivers should be *required* to sit an advanced and defensive drivers training course before getting their open license. The lack of training regular drivers currently have is ridiculous compared to other countries.

[kawasakirider]

To be devils advocate (and I don't entirely agree with the current 3-year period for P-platers) but it doesn't like like the best idea to me.

I personally believe *ALL* drivers should be *required* to sit an advanced and defensive drivers training course before getting their open license. The lack of training regular drivers currently have is ridiculous compared to other countries.

I agree that most young people shouldn't have a high powered car, but I'm confident I can excersize restraint so I won't get into trouble... Some people will try and drive a car to it's limits and exceed their own no matter what car they are in, though.

[mad082]

i think that all P platers should have to do this course, but it shouldn't mean that they get their licence any sooner. the school i went to used to have the year 11 or 12 (can't remember which) off to the local roadcraft centre for a 2 or 3 day driver ed class. we would spend time in the classroom doing practical stuff as well as out on the skidpan doing braking in the wet, braking while turning, etc. it was good fun and taught us a bit as well. however it didn't stop me doing stupid things in the first year of having my licence.

[badhairdave]

I'd support it, depending on the extent of the training. If it's a week long course, or a series of days over a couple of months, yep, if it's a 1 day defensive driver class forget it. It would also have to be discretionary based on your actual performance because some people just cant drive.

I don't see it as a short cut. It's actual car control training, the sort of stuff you aren't going to learn being a mobile chicane on a freeway and exactly what most people on here seem to support.

Interesting that the detractors point to the road toll dropping and say this additional training is a bad thing. Have you considered that regardless of licence type these people are still on the road, retards.....

[mad082]

a lot of detractors seem to dislike any way of reducing the road toll other than reducing the power of vehicles and increasing fines.

there are only 3 ways to properly reduce the road toll and get hoons off the streets.

1: make it harder to get your licence. go back to the old scheme where you could only make 3 minor mistakes when driving, instead of the 7 or 9 you are allowed now.

2: better education. this includes existing licence holders. make it so that if you get booked a certain amount of times in a set period or have an at fault accident then you need to resit your licence test. i think this would be good for a lot of the old drivers (not talking really old people, but in their 40's and older) who think they own the road so don't indicate, tailgate, don't give way, don't stop at stop signs, etc. it would remind them of how they are supposed to drive. also do what they do in europe and make it so parents aren't allowed to teach their kids to drive. that will stop them passing on their bad habbits.

3: provide more facilities for people to do motorsport. if they did this then i would be all for them increasing fines to pay for it, because then there wouldn't be any excuses. make it something that is available to everyone without having to drive hours to get there (for me the closest drag strip is 3 hours away) and then more people will use it.

my only negative criticism of having the course though would be if they were to teach p platers how to control the car in the even of oversteer. basically you are teaching them how to drift and will give them more confidence in doing it rather than teaching them to drive safely. as long as they stick to handling the car in emergency situations and focus on actual driving ability such as following distances, negotiating obstacles at speed (such as swerving to miss a car that has pulled out in front of your), etc then i'm all for it.

[kawasakirider]

a lot of detractors seem to dislike any way of reducing the road toll other than reducing the power of vehicles and increasing fines.

there are only 3 ways to properly reduce the road toll and get hoons off the streets.

1: make it harder to get your licence. go back to the old scheme where you could only make 3 minor mistakes when driving, instead of the 7 or 9 you are allowed now.

2: better education. this includes existing licence holders. make it so that if you get booked a certain amount of times in a set period or have an at fault accident then you need to resit your licence test. i think this would be good for a lot of the old drivers (not talking really old people, but in their 40's and older) who think they own the road so don't indicate, tailgate, don't give way, don't stop at stop signs, etc. it would remind them of how they are supposed to drive. also do what they do in europe and make it so parents aren't allowed to teach their kids to drive. that will stop them passing on their bad habbits.

3: provide more facilities for people to do motorsport. if they did this then i would be all for them increasing fines to pay for it, because then there wouldn't be any excuses. make it something that is available to everyone without having to drive hours to get there (for me the closest drag strip is 3 hours away) and then more people will use it.

my only negative criticism of having the course though would be if they were to teach p platers how to control the car in the even of oversteer. basically you are teaching them how to drift and will give them more confidence in doing it rather than teaching them to drive safely. as long as they stick to handling the car in emergency situations and focus on actual driving ability such as following distances, negotiating obstacles at speed (such as swerving to miss a car that has pulled out in front of your), etc then i'm all for it.

I agree with all that, except for the first point. I'm not the worlds best driver and I passed my licence test first go with only one mistake. If you had 3 mistakes, the majority of people will still pass. The stuff they ask you to do in your practical test is extremely easy. You aren't allowed and CDE's, though (critical driver errors).

I've never done a defensive driving course, do they always teach how to control oversteer?

[Duchie]

I agree with mad082 on some of his points.

First of all im a learner, got a non-turbo r33 and its great but there are things that you need to learn with experience, like how to control your car in the wet, if it starts sliding in the arse and so on.

I attended a defensive driving course 2 days ago through school and they taught us skills which you do not learn in driving lessons, so in saying this it is advisable for EVERYONE to do some sort of driving course, but alone this lesson only enlightened me in advanced braking procedures and correct methods of turning the car.

So even in doing these courses you still need more experience before allowed powerful cars. I have to admit i am a bit of a hoon and so more tracks would help in getting it outta my system.

Just my two cents, eat it!

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i would support p platers (or all drivers for that matter) completing an advanced driving course

but i will never support anything that gets people onto opens sooner

p platers cant drive for shit.... fact... driving takes many years to learn, and this aint gonna happen overnight

[Ericjayrol]

I just wanna comment on that last comment about P platers driving like shit and driving taking many years...

Just like with any skills in humans, there are people who are naturals at certain things, and driving is one of those things, not that im saying i drive as skilled as a full license driver (though I know many that scare me on the roads).

I like the idea of a advanced driving courses, even if i think the reasoning behind its introduction is to make extra money for the RTA through both paying for the course and charging for a full licensing fee earlier.

[MSTRshenanigans]

Make it compulsory to do but no reduction in P plate time. New drivers suck. =P

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

I just wanna comment on that last comment about P platers driving like shit and driving taking many years...

Just like with any skills in humans, there are people who are naturals at certain things, and driving is one of those things, not that im saying i drive as skilled as a full license driver (though I know many that scare me on the roads).

I like the idea of a advanced driving courses, even if i think the reasoning behind its introduction is to make extra money for the RTA through both paying for the course and charging for a full licensing fee earlier.

it has nothing to do with skill, it is purely time on the road.... yes there are p platers that can rip good lap times, drift, launch a 1.4 60 footer etc etc but these are not the things that make a good street driver.

every day i see p platers driving waaaaay too close to the car in front, not slowing down in the rain, applying makeup while driving/ laughing with their mates and not paying enough atention to the roads etc etc etc

also, you will only ever really appreciate how long a car stops until you have experienced an accident first hand.

[Owgasm]

As some of you have stated, driving isn't something you learn over night. Some people are better and learn quicker, still doesn't mean you're more experienced. You gain experience by driving in different conditions, being in different scenarios etc.

I haven't done a driving course, so can't comment on what they teach and how it helps everyday driving.

In saying this though, some people I believe can drive for 3 years on their P's and not leave their own suburb and may not encounter different road conditions/driving scenarios. e.g. One of my friend, didn't drive on a highway until she/he (can't remember) was about 6months into their Red Ps. What good is that?

What I do reckon would be a good idea is some way for RTA or something to check the standard of cars that P platers drive, to ensure they're safe and roadworthy. Having the power restrictions i've heard have restricted alot of cars that are great safe cars and aren't actually "powerful" but just may have a turbo or something.

I've lost my train of thought, haha. So its a bit messy.

[kawasakirider]

it has nothing to do with skill, it is purely time on the road.... yes there are p platers that can rip good lap times, drift, launch a 1.4 60 footer etc etc but these are not the things that make a good street driver.

every day i see p platers driving waaaaay too close to the car in front, not slowing down in the rain, applying makeup while driving/ laughing with their mates and not paying enough atention to the roads etc etc etc

also, you will only ever really appreciate how long a car stops until you have experienced an accident first hand.

Mate I have to disagree with you there on some points, whilst I agree that there are a lot of unsafe P platers out there, there is a minority that drive like sensible adults whilst on the road. I drive over 100 KM every day (100 KM highway, more driving in town) and I always leave a large gap between myself and other cars on the road. It's not worth risking an accident just to be a dickhead and sit up someone's ass. If they are going too slow, I don't sit up their ass, I wait for an overtaking lane and then work my way up and pass them. If they are doing the speed limit, there is no reason for people to sit on another cars ass because the gap should be easy to maintain (if indeed they are doing the speed limit also).

I have been in a crash whilst driving (not my fault and everything was sorted) and I have also been in another crash last year in which the car rolled 3 times and hit a tree (I was a passenger). I understand how quickly things can go wrong (especially riding motocross for a long time, it only takes a split second and you're on the edge of control).

It doesn't necessarily take a good driver to get out of bad situations (this should be a given if you are driving on the road, the ability to get out of situations, because it happens frequently, especially the amount of driving I do), but it does take a good driver not to get into those situations in the first place. I don't want to risk my licence, my girlfriends life, my own life and everyone else's on the road.

There's a time and a place to drive like a hoon and I believe I can differentiate between the right and wrong times.

[FrangaR33]

Mate I have to disagree with you there on some points, whilst I agree that there are a lot of unsafe P platers out there, there is a minority that drive like sensible adults whilst on the road. I drive over 100 KM every day (100 KM highway, more driving in town) and I always leave a large gap between myself and other cars on the road. It's not worth risking an accident just to be a dickhead and sit up someone's ass. If they are going too slow, I don't sit up their ass, I wait for an overtaking lane and then work my way up and pass them. If they are doing the speed limit, there is no reason for people to sit on another cars ass because the gap should be easy to maintain (if indeed they are doing the speed limit also).

I have been in a crash whilst driving (not my fault and everything was sorted) and I have also been in another crash last year in which the car rolled 3 times and hit a tree (I was a passenger). I understand how quickly things can go wrong (especially riding motocross for a long time, it only takes a split second and you're on the edge of control).

It doesn't necessarily take a good driver to get out of bad situations (this should be a given if you are driving on the road, the ability to get out of situations, because it happens frequently, especially the amount of driving I do), but it does take a good driver not to get into those situations in the first place. I don't want to risk my licence, my girlfriends life, my own life and everyone else's on the road.

There's a time and a place to drive like a hoon and I believe I can differentiate between the right and wrong times.

JoeyJoeJoe wasnt to referring to all P-Platers just the vast majority. To be honest anyone with half a brain can keep themselves out of trouble in a car as long as they pay attention and have a reasonably well maintained car. IMO it takes skill to get a car out of a bad situation and not end up hitting that tree or oncoming car. How many people who are average drivers manage to not kill themselves when presented with such a situation? not many i'm afraid, thats one of the reason our road toll is the way it is.

[kawasakirider]

JoeyJoeJoe wasnt to referring to all P-Platers just the vast majority. To be honest anyone with half a brain can keep themselves out of trouble in a car as long as they pay attention and have a reasonably well maintained car. IMO it takes skill to get a car out of a bad situation and not end up hitting that tree or oncoming car. How many people who are average drivers manage to not kill themselves when presented with such a situation? not many i'm afraid, thats one of the reason our road toll is the way it is.

Fair enough mate, wasn't having a dig I was just saying lol. I agree, it takes a good driver to get out of bad situations, which I've done a few times since I've been driving (who knows, maybe I've just been lucky and it's worked out for me) but it also takes a mature driver not to get into as many of those situations compared to a tailgating fag who is a driving like a tool.

[FrangaR33]

Fair enough mate, wasn't having a dig I was just saying lol. I agree, it takes a good driver to get out of bad situations, which I've done a few times since I've been driving (who knows, maybe I've just been lucky and it's worked out for me) but it also takes a mature driver not to get into as many of those situations compared to a tailgating fag who is a driving like a tool.

Thats true. Especially about the tailgaters. I consistently rage out at the f**kers who tail gate me, although I have a big tow bar so I think there car will come of second best. After having to do an emergency stop without the aid of an electronics I know exactly how far it takes for a car doing 70km/h to come to a complete stop and the vast majority of people dont leave nearly enough room to be able to stop in the event of an accident. It just gives me the shits that this isnt common knowledge amongst not only P-Platers but the entire driving community. I consistently see 4 or 5 cars all bunched up together and if they had to stop all 5 cars would be totally wrecked, I find myself willing it to happen so they would finally learn their lesson not to tailgate and have it not be at my expense or of that someone who matters to me.

[Ericjayrol]

it has nothing to do with skill, it is purely time on the road.... yes there are p platers that can rip good lap times, drift, launch a 1.4 60 footer etc etc but these are not the things that make a good street driver.

every day i see p platers driving waaaaay too close to the car in front, not slowing down in the rain, applying makeup while driving/ laughing with their mates and not paying enough atention to the roads etc etc etc

also, you will only ever really appreciate how long a car stops until you have experienced an accident first hand.

I don't see how it has nothing to do with skill...

If you drive for years, that doesn't mean your learning anything from the experience... there has to be skill built by going through that experience, which some people never build, Ive seen many people who have held licenses for years, but im shit scared when im driving with them because obviously in all those years they just haven't needed to respond to anything or haven't learned anything.

Also, I don't classify anything thats hot shit on a track, as making someone a good driver. I do have realistic expectations of a good driver, not saying that a drag racer or drifter is a good driver because they have track skill.

I've had many situations where I needed to respond, and there have been times where I was at fault aswell as times I was not, but I got out of the situation without a problem, both from my skill in combination (sometimes) with the other driver's own skill.

I think that skill is a major part of what makes a good driver, 100% there are P platers that drive better than most full license drivers.

Also, on a side note, my personal opinion on what makes someone a good driver, isn't never having an accident or never getting into an incident, but rather being able to handle that situation calmly and responding in a calm and collected way that leaves nobody injured and nothing damaged.

[MSTRshenanigans]

The sad fact is that they are not, majority speaking, good drivers until they get time on the road experience driving in situations and scenarios outside of the learning environment. No course can give them that unless its like the matrix. Why I say this is people everyday drive erratically and randomly change lanes, turn around, stop start.

[FloydWestwood]

Maybe the govt could try the system they use for motorbikes, but on cars.

You do a course and test first to get your L's - the course just teaches you to operate bike/car. Then your on L's for a period of time.

To get your P's you do another course and driving assessment and do the licence test at the RTA - this course is designed to mimic traffic situations and teaches you to react appropriatly to those situations.

Then your on your red, then green P's.

All up should be three years til your on your opens, but includes the much needed education that young drivers don't get these days.