Targa

[LotusGTR]

Guys, this is the beginning of me looking at entering Targa Tas. It'll take a fair bit of time and effort to get there, and there will be many things I've got to sort along the way. Today I'm wanting to deal with vehicle selection. I have an R32 GTR that would be great for it (IMHO), other than I've been told it's 'too nice' to do that to. Built engine (to orginal specs), N1 turbs, coilovers, 3 sets of wheels. I'd have to add cage, seats, harness, navigation gear and I reckon it's just about there. I'm guessing I'll be in category 8, early modern, MS. I'm OK at driving and find this car very benign and predictable and would be confident in taking it there, and brining it back.

I'm wondering what other choices I could make though. I could buy one already prepped, buy a shitter and do it up, look outside the world of GTRs. If I was looking for alternatives, where are good places to look. My 105? Autosports? Here?

I realise there are many other areas that need addressing in participating in this event, but I'd like to start the investigation with a suitable vehicle type.

I have only done sprints (say 10) and recently-ish did 1.25 at Sandown - to give you some sort of an idea of me as a driver and the car's capabilities. Have driven the Burger Ring - didn't crash! Never done tarmac rally but need little convincing it's something I'd really enjoy.

More topics to come. Your input is appreciated.

[Snowman]

For me I think especially if you are starting out the major thing you want is a car you a comfortable driving in. Targa isn't a place you want to be learning a car as well as learning the game IMO.

The R32 GT-R is a good thing. Not sure who looks after your car but Racepace look after a beautiful R32 GTR Targa car (Drew's) that in early modern can be as competative as anything else out there in the right hands. If you are ok with turning it into a full race-car (and also ok with stepping up the chance considerably that you may end up throwing it away due to an accident) then I'd say you have a good car in your hands already.

[sav man]

You'll need to swap the -7's for R32 N1's if you want to use your car. The GT-R falls into the Early Modern LMS catagory. My105 is a great place to look for cars. Dad is just about to sell a R33 N1 replica with a fresh crate N1 engine and turbos.

You won't want to be learning the car in a big event like Targa. If you just want to compete, you should get a car you know, and enjoy to drive

[t01-100]

You've ticked a few of the bigger items off the prep list already so I'd stick with the GTR... any cheapy (Evo or STi) you get into will feel very disappointing compared to how lively a tarmac rally GTR is, although there is no such animal as a cheap GTR!

[Marlin]

Welcome to the "disease" Nick!

You seem to be thinking it through well, and if you already know it's something you'll enjoy, be prepared for it to change your life mate

[LotusGTR]

You'll need to swap the -7's for R32 N1's if you want to use your car. The GT-R falls into the Early Modern LMS catagory. My105 is a great place to look for cars. Dad is just about to sell a R33 N1 replica with a fresh crate N1 engine and turbos.

You won't want to be learning the car in a big event like Targa. If you just want to compete, you should get a car you know, and enjoy to drive

Where is your old man's car advertised? Why LMS and not MS? Just the way it is? Re turbs I'll have to double check them as they could be N1. Kinda gets confusing when somebody else does the work.

[Snowman]

Nick the older GT-R's fall under LMS. If you haven't read this yet I suggest this is the place to start http://www.targa.org.au/Competitors/Regula...ns%20070410.pdf

You will find the car classes on page 24 (26).

Read carefully the General Regulations for all Vehicles starting page 15) for all of the little things you will need that you haven't for your club level stuff.

[Roy]

Some say dont track a car you cant afford (financially or emtionally) to bin and write off. I think thats a bit extreme regarding track stuff, but think it coul dbe close to the mark for a tarmac rally car.

Your GTR is so mint, makes good power with all the nice bits. It will make a great tarmac car....but yeh, i suppose its only a car so go for it.

[LotusGTR]

Some say dont track a car you cant afford (financially or emtionally) to bin and write off. I think thats a bit extreme regarding track stuff, but think it coul dbe close to the mark for a tarmac rally car.

Your GTR is so mint, makes good power with all the nice bits. It will make a great tarmac car....but yeh, i suppose its only a car so go for it.

your words are still ringing in my ears.

[sav man]

Where is your old man's car advertised? Why LMS and not MS? Just the way it is? Re turbs I'll have to double check them as they could be N1. Kinda gets confusing when somebody else does the work.

Hasn't been advertised yet, currently running the engine in, and finishing it off.

the SS LMS and MS is dictated by standard speed. My Gtst can run MS as it's slow to start with, a GT-R isn't slow to start with. a R35 is realy fast to start with, so it's in SS

Edited June 30, 2010 by sav man

[LotusGTR]

Nick the older GT-R's fall under LMS. If you haven't read this yet I suggest this is the place to start http://www.targa.org.au/Competitors/Regula...ns%20070410.pdf

You will find the car classes on page 24 (26).

Read carefully the General Regulations for all Vehicles starting page 15) for all of the little things you will need that you haven't for your club level stuff.

Thanks for that. I actually tried to download this yesterday, without success. I subsequently rang Helen @ Octagon and she emailed it to me. I've read it and yes, my car in in LMS but Helen was suggesting MS.......she did say the technical director was away....So, I'll assume LMS. I'm very pleased to see 2" increase in wheel size and diameter is permitted as my brakes can be accommodated. As an aside I was told there are a new set of regs to be publshed any day now that accommodate Wrestpoint, High Country and Targa Tas.

I'm suprised at how few restrictions there are, and hope I'm reading in the right places. So far, General Regs on their pages 15-21, then Early Modern on pages 22-24, then Modern LMS on page 25....Perhaps someone can confirm these are the right places?

Some questions as follows:

Typically what tyres are used. Semi comps / R specs?

It mentions isolations switches as recommended (which suprised me). Do I assume I've got to get one? Confirming their main purpose as in an accident you can turn everything off?

Towing eyes. I can remember the rear ones (which will need a paint up) and where are the fronts? Perhaps this is something I'll need to get done....

ROP I'm thinking Meridian or Brown Davis, but if there are any specific requirements then please let me know

[Duncan]

yeah some things are very free and some are very restricted.

they key restrictions for a 32 gtr are standard turbos, standard cams, standard afms. The turbos will limit you to 300-330kw at about 24psi. Also standard suspension arms everywhere (except hicas that you can remove).

I have and would always have a kill switch....plenty of opportunities to und upsidedown in a tree.

As for tyres, best you can get. generally medium compound dunlop dz03.

[LotusGTR]

Ah, I've just re-read point 12 under General Regs and it says 'the limits of modifications allowed are specified herinafter'. I think this is the key clause as this seems to say to me that unless it is specifically mentioned in points 13-86 (plus the supp regs too), you can't do the modification.

Is this how it is interpreted? I just can't see anything specifically about suspension arms etc as you suggest Duncan.

I just want to make sure I've got my head around the regs and how they work.

[Snowman]

Basically that is it Nick. If it doesn't say you can do it then you can't.

[PHaT MR30]

Fantastic you've got the bug Nick, we could do with some more cars in Early Modern!

Definately wait until the new regs come out before you do anything drastic, interpretation of the rules/regs is key to making the best use of them and if your unsure of anything Stu the Technical Director will be more than happy to advise.

Regarding tyres a wise man once said pick your tyres to finish as if it were a 100% dry event, you don't want to get to day 5 with bald tyres and it being completely wet. This year we got 2 spares which could be put on for the 4th/5th day for 2wd and 5th leg for 4wd. but it could be different for future events.

My advice as a co-driver is find a navigator early and as a priority, spend time with them to understand it and driving together. If you leave it to the last minute and it will ruin your event.

[LotusGTR]

Fantastic you've got the bug Nick, we could do with some more cars in Early Modern!

Definately wait until the new regs come out before you do anything drastic, interpretation of the rules/regs is key to making the best use of them and if your unsure of anything Stu the Technical Director will be more than happy to advise.

Regarding tyres a wise man once said pick your tyres to finish as if it were a 100% dry event, you don't want to get to day 5 with bald tyres and it being completely wet. This year we got 2 spares which could be put on for the 4th/5th day for 2wd and 5th leg for 4wd. but it could be different for future events.

My advice as a co-driver is find a navigator early and as a priority, spend time with them to understand it and driving together. If you leave it to the last minute and it will ruin your event.

Thanks for the welcome....though this is still an idea more than a reality. You got to start somewhere though. Re the naviagator, this is a big building block for me to have in place for this to be a reality. This was the next area of investigation once I got the whole car thing sorted (which in broad terms I think I have i.e. R32 GTR = good car for the event). Octagon have said they'll find me a nav if I can't for myself, but outside of them, SAU is my best network for this so I'll gladly hear from anyone who thinks they may want a chat with me.

[sav man]

Best way to read the regs is to print them out, and highlight all the parts that are applicable to you, and re-read, and re-read. And if you think you have a creative interpreatation run it past stu, and he'll tell you if your cleaver or not.

As far as a cage, just get one built to CAMS specs, as that will easily cover you for and AASA events, and CAMS events.

You also need a internal and external isolation switch.

[LotusGTR]

OK guys, I've got enough of a handle on the car thing, so let's move on to appropriate licensing.

I've got the usual CAMS LS2 license, so where to from here. Helen at Octagon has suggested attending this http://motorsportacademy.com.au/ which is for a whole weekend and in SA......It's hard enough getting time to do the prep and the events let alone weekends away in SA for driver training.....So, I want to get this done with minimum hassle and cost if possible. Having said that if some of these courses offer genuine learning experiences that will add to my enjoyment, safety, smooth running, competitiveness then I'm open to investing. I do not want some Jim Murcott driving school experience (which I did when I was 18 and it was a yawn then) where I get taught threshold braking and what under and oversteer is. It's got to have teeth or I may as well just go the quick and dirty route.

What are my options chaps? I can drive, I'll just need to prove it to someone and hopefully learn something along the way.

Cheers.

[t01-100]

...she did say the technical director was away....So, I'll assume LMS.

sorry i was off sick... first time in years!

everyone here is one the pace with gtr rules though. if you want to confirm anything my number is same as helens but 8877 and same email but stuart.benson

[Snowman]

Can't say I've ever heard of the motorsports academy so I can't really comment on it.

But there are some traps with just having track experience. The main one in my opinion is that getting good on a circuit is more about knowing the circuit than it is about driving what you see. I'm far from an expert on these matters but for me I found things like the touring events (such as the ATC/Dutton events) and even skidpan days like SAU Vic run are a good start. These are great for teaching you to drive fast something you may never have seen before like what you will experience when you first go Tarmac Rallying. You don't know where you braking points or apexes are until you get to each turn and thats a skill that is not so easy to gain just by doing track laps.

They will also teach you the consequences of small mistakes in a more friendly way. On the circuit if you get something slightly wrong you run a wheel wide onto the dirt and gather it up and keep going without much consequence. In a touring event you make a small mistake and you hit a cone and get a 5s penalty which will totally bugger your event in a competative sense but thats about it. In a tarmac rally a small error can lead to you hitting a tree and crying over the loss of your beloved car!