Targa

[LotusGTR]

sorry i was off sick... first time in years!

everyone here is one the pace with gtr rules though. if you want to confirm anything my number is same as helens but 8877 and same email but stuart.benson

Thanks Stuart. I'll email.

[Targa Tom]

Thanks Stuart. I'll email.

Only seems like yesterday when I stood near Longford and made that blind leap.... the only commitment I ever made LMAO. Take it slow and listen to the advise... we have seen lots of good drivers drop it in the scrub...

SB will help you out, and there are a few guys on here with first hand experience. Deal in facts and read that regs book till you know it by heart. [Put a copy in your dunny]

Good luck. In the words of someone famous - "It will change your life"

TT

[LotusGTR]

So, you take a road registered car (more than likely anyway) then you strip it out and throw in a cage, fixed back seats, harnesses etc. Potentially you drive to the event and back, and to the mechanics. You might even sprint it too. Drive to the track and back. If you got a little reckless you might even take it out on a Sunday a.m. blast. You wouldn't drive it to the pub on a Saturday night....Or do most trailer them everywhere even though they're registered?

So, is it pure luck you don't eventually get pulled over and the car effectively taken off the road for being (very obviously) illegal? You then have an unregistered car, or go for rally rego, which requires you have a rally license and is legal for CAMS events only?

Is this how it is? Or is my assumption that all those mods are illegal not true? How does this side of things stack up?

And on it goes working everything out!

Cheers.

[sav man]

Depends on your state, in Tassie people have got their car SI'd (equivilent to rally rego) with only a AASA rally licence. Dad got the R33 put over the pits and rego'd in full Targa trim (cage and all). You'll have to check with people in your state, but Tassie's SI is pretty relaxed (appareny it's going to get clamped down), but we can drive to and from racing events, and drive the car on the road for testing perposes

[Roy]

The cars can be perfectly road legal if built carefully, but the biggest stumbling block is the side intrusion which you need in a rally car which an engineer may deem restricts normal egress/ingress .

[LotusGTR]

The cars can be perfectly road legal if built carefully, but the biggest stumbling block is the side intrusion which you need in a rally car which an engineer may deem restricts normal egress/ingress .

I guess when you think about it the cage is the only aspect of prepping the car that can't easily be undone. I'm going to be talking to Brown Davis and Meridian regarding cages, so I'll let them know we need to build them 'carefully' in my conversations with them. Any others I should consider? I also know a Vicroads approved certifying engineer so I might see what he can tell me about this area.

Lol at the words 'may' and 'deem'

[Marlin]

I'm in Queensland so can't tell you anything about Vic sorry.

I avoid driving mine, paranoid about getting pulled over. My 32 is a fully complied car not rally rego.

However, I did go to the effort to have everything mod plated, brakes, 2 seater, cage (shhh about the intrusion bars), etc...

I was pulled over one friday afternoon, bald R comp tyres, you know, and they let me off. Seeing my greying hair may have helped, as may have my prickling up when they suggested it was a drift car.

I still trailer it mostly, and it would be a game man to take it for a spirited mountain drive.

[2pee]

If things in NSW are a taste of things to come elsewhere and having had an argument at the RTA not so long ago after they changed the rules, according to the "staff eyes only" guidelines, R'nR imports are not permitted to drive to and from events, if you have a Au delivered vehicle you can, within certain parameters.

To add to the absurdity, you can drive a prohibited vehicle on an out of state permit here with total impunity, so with the possible exception of Tassie, expect the float requirement being part of the price of admission to the lunatic asylum.

[Marlin]

^^^^^ there's another reason why we wont see rallies in NSW, cars need to be driven between stages, not trailered.

The worlds gone farkin mad.

[Roy]

I think Meridiant do nicer cages but Brown Davis are on the tech board for rallying and also a consultant to Vic roads. So if you get some nice racey seats with high leg supports and the side intrustion is in line with the sides of the seats then you can say that the cages doesnt really imeded access, ie you make the seat the biggest issue. But, yeh have a chat with both of them...be interesting to hear the outcome.

[sav man]

it's no surprise that there are heaps of tarmac rally cars registered in tassie, even though they live on the mainland.

[Snowman]

Mine is road registered here in Vic.

I don't drive it around much (and you will quickly find a full trim race car isn't as pleasant to take for a drive than what a modded street car is!). But I do drive it to and from the work-shop, to and from events (although thats about to change!) and I also do take it for the odd test drive / set-up check / re-equant myself with the car around event time.

[essay]

Hey Nick, I am pretty sure you saw my R32 when I had it for sale. That car was in full Targa spec when i bought it in SA and had full reg. I attempted to register the car in Vic at Archie Robertson's and received 2 A4 pages of things to do. Needless to say I left it in SA reg. One critical area regarding design of your cage, and please check this out, is a percentage of clear opening for ingress/egress. From memory it is something around 76%. With my current car I have it rally reg'd, fairly simple process involving CAMS National rally license, scrutineering checkover, submission to CAMS assessment board, then Vic roads visit for hand over of plates (allow around month and a half for the wheels to turn). Hope this helps and good luck

[LotusGTR]

Hey Nick, I am pretty sure you saw my R32 when I had it for sale. That car was in full Targa spec when i bought it in SA and had full reg. I attempted to register the car in Vic at Archie Robertson's and received 2 A4 pages of things to do. Needless to say I left it in SA reg. One critical area regarding design of your cage, and please check this out, is a percentage of clear opening for ingress/egress. From memory it is something around 76%. With my current car I have it rally reg'd, fairly simple process involving CAMS National rally license, scrutineering checkover, submission to CAMS assessment board, then Vic roads visit for hand over of plates (allow around month and a half for the wheels to turn). Hope this helps and good luck

Hi Serge, yes that was me. Thanks for the tips. I'm going to investigate the cage very thoroughly. I've read VSI #28 and will hopefully speak with Brown Davis and Merdian today. The VSI confirms Roy's suggestion that the height of the seat bolster may be the answer to getting around the side intrusion bar issue. Hopefully given my start point is a pretty much roadworthy car, if I can get the cage right it'll continue to be that way.

Cheers.

[Targa Tom]

Unlike the majority of Evo Rally cars - ours started as a GSR and therefore fully rego'd

The big difference is you can get a race rally base without any duty etc built in, which reduces the cost.

Wonder how the WRC cars get on next time round...

Tassie is pretty relaxed - we bedded in the brakes and moved the GT3 Cup round for the price of a permit. $45 and must nominate time + too and from address and route to be used. (Great race car - shyte road car)

MAIB in Tassie offer a system where non registered cars can use roads for duration of event. Basically from the spirit to spirit for you Australians coming down.

TT

[Roy]

I think you are best to keep the thing registered, throw the cage in it and do everything within your power to make it legal to Vic Roads and CAMS and dotn get the car engineered (registered as a 2 seater) with the cage. Just do everything possible to make sure its legit, down to the compliance paperwork in the glovebox. Just dont ever submit it.

If you get pulled over and they question the legality of the cage, then worry about trying to get the car registered as a two seater with the cage. Beauty of not havng to do annual road worthy in Vic is that you end up running the gauntlet with police pulling you over rather then an annual road worthy inspector telling you the car needs things fixed. I think Vic Roads have got it wrong an dshould mirror NSW, but the rules are the rules and the fact that its all very subjective means proceed with caution.

But speak to Brown Davis and Meridian...i would be reasonable confident that Brown Davis could get your cage thorugh engineering and Vic Roads provided that the other mods are up to scratch. Thats the problem with engineering....you just cant ask the engineer to look at the cage, he will look at brakes, suspension, chassis, rims/tyres, lights, seat belts, seat installation, pollution gear, possibly down to emmissions

[LotusGTR]

I think you are best to keep the thing registered, throw the cage in it and do everything within your power to make it legal to Vic Roads and CAMS and dotn get the car engineered (registered as a 2 seater) with the cage. Just do everything possible to make sure its legit, down to the compliance paperwork in the glovebox. Just dont ever submit it.

If you get pulled over and they question the legality of the cage, then worry about trying to get the car registered as a two seater with the cage. Beauty of not havng to do annual road worthy in Vic is that you end up running the gauntlet with police pulling you over rather then an annual road worthy inspector telling you the car needs things fixed. I think Vic Roads have got it wrong an dshould mirror NSW, but the rules are the rules and the fact that its all very subjective means proceed with caution.

But speak to Brown Davis and Meridian...i would be reasonable confident that Brown Davis could get your cage thorugh engineering and Vic Roads provided that the other mods are up to scratch. Thats the problem with engineering....you just cant ask the engineer to look at the cage, he will look at brakes, suspension, chassis, rims/tyres, lights, seat belts, seat installation, pollution gear, possibly down to emmissions

Your first para will be my approach. Meridian are 99% sure it ain't ever going to be legal. Side intrusions, double diagonals in the main hoop and the diagonals in the roof are the culprits apparently. Let's see what BD say and go from there.

[LotusGTR]

Well I've spoken with Meridian and Brown Davis and cost estimates and advice are pretty much the same. It seems state based rules on cages will be replaced with a national code in the next year or so, which will be more onerous. But the 'rally rego' option will become more accessible and less costly so this will balance things off. This is apparently the way of the future. Overall I'm fairly confident of getting what I want in this area.

If the 32 GTR is the way to go then I'm pretty sure I understand what to do now to prep the car.

My last niggling doubt is when I see things like later model cars with less mods and power / performance and I wonder if something like that is more the way to go (hypothetical e.g. late model Mini). I guess my fear is with limited support crew options that I have (at this stage) I may be asking for a short and not very sweet experience. How much support would I realisitically need and would this requirement diminish with a different vehicle type? Is a handy mate with a car and a boot full of select spares and tools enough? What is realistically required? I know this comes down to things like budget, quality of prep, general resources, but can you give me a steer on this area?

Does anyone go to this type of event unsupported?

[sav man]

Once you get to know some poeple that are competing. You'll never do the event unsupported. There are plenty of people about that will help you out/carry tools and fuel.

[2pee]

Short answer is yes.....pretty well every time, baggage truck comes in handy.

Helps to make friends with locals if the tools you have at your disposal don't match the job at hand, should it get to the desperate stage. Also worthwhile not burning bridges either, came across a couple of stories of competitors ripping-off those who provide workshop access, labour or parts, small communities have long memories and word gets around to the long term detriment of the events.