Targa

[paulR32gtr]

Does anyone go to this type of event unsupported?

You can sign up with places like MPC in bayswater to handle your fuel, think they have mechanics and tools - just pay a fee for them to support you for the event. They are stationed with fuel trucks at the end of certain stages, pull over refuel, use tools for patch jobs. It might seem pricey, but after you add up accomodation, fuel, getting the support vehicle to the event etc it probably ends up pretty cost effective. Not sure which events they do - def. tassie, some of the other guys should be able to tell you more and who else does it.

Otherwise plenty of people around to go halvies with on bringing a support vehicle - always good to share costs - just a 4wd or something and there is always some poor sap to get roped in to driving it (just don't tell them how much hard work it actually is!). Try make sure you are similar cars and driver skill so your start times will be similar - minimise stressing your support vehicle out if you need fuel away from service stations.

Beauty of a well prepped GTR is you wont need to put a spanner near it! All the tools and spare parts you bring with you will most likely never be used - just an oil change and rotate tyres or something. It was funny watching the Evo's pulling engines and diffs etc - we were just popping the hood, checking oil, cooler pipes and water on a wound up unopened 1989 engine - it took a beating.

Some good advice we got was to treat rallies like a scenic holiday! Drive at 7/10ths and if you start seeing red it's time to back off a little to make sure you bring the car home.

[PHaT MR30]

Yep as much as people say they can help out and carry fuel tools etc, its when your stuck with a problem a technical expert comes in real handy. I cannot stress enough the importance of a good service crew.

We use MPC and while the price seems excessive, in the end they have a truck full of tools and spares, diagnostic equipment with guys that know how to use it and several vehicles that run around after you and are all at the end of a stage when you need them.

Now I reckon if you added up how much it would cost you to have a few mates with a couple of vehicles, pay for their accom and food plus petty for them to drive around after you for a week I wouldn't be surprised if it was nearly what someone like MPC charge anyway.

This year was the first time I have done the event and didn't have a proper service crew and really the added stress wasn't good, relying on filling up at servo's and hoping the guy you gave some jerry can's to is going to be about where he said he would be so you could refuel in the middle of nowhere.

[Marlin]

lol, I just wrote a really long detailed reply to my thoughts on servicing, but refrained.

They say never burn a bridge.

[paulR32gtr]

This year was the first time I have done the event and didn't have a proper service crew and really the added stress wasn't good, relying on filling up at servo's and hoping the guy you gave some jerry can's to is going to be about where he said he would be so you could refuel in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah it was only by absolute sheer luck that we ran into our support car god bless her, when we were fuel light on empty on a long transit between comp stages. No mobile reception where we were (3 though - surely Telstra nextg powah would have been ok).

[sav man]

West coast is bad for coverage, even for nextg. Damo and I planned the westcost service stops with the Telstra network map

[PHaT MR30]

Cheap prepaid nextG phone plus antenna on roof work just about anywhere

[paulR32gtr]

Noted

[LotusGTR]

Well, I've made some progress in that I've got a navigator lined up. He has no experience, but is just the right kinda guy and has a close friend who is a rally navigator instructor and used to nav for a works Toyota rally team who is prepared to help. Great contact I'd think. My nav also has some contacts who could form part of the service crew I'm slowly pulling together. It all needs to come together of course, but I've got a good strong direction on this now. Happy.

Re the cage, I've got this idea that I'm going to keep the interior as it may be a track / sprint car too and get road driven to and from local-ish events. I'm not sure how much I want to be driving / competing in a gutted car that's like being inside a Coke can.

I'd like some feedback on this. Am I being naive about this? Am i being soft? Is the reality if it's going to be a targa car I may as well go the whole hog? Is weight saving that important (i.e. chucking out the interior) bearing in mind I'm in this for fun, not winning.

I want to get my head in the right space on this issue so feedback appreciated.

[Marlin]

Nick, I'd strip the interior mate.

We're not talking about a rose-jointed and straight-cut gearbox car here, it's a completely rubber bushed road car with a road car gearbox, so even completely stripped of sound deadening, they're still quite habitable.

Pay attention to getting rid of the typical Skyline diff whine though, that is one thing that can become annoying and tiring on long transport sections.

I'm sure my nav Tim and the other Skyline runners would concurr that the benefits (it's faster and easier stop too!) of lightening your car will far outweight the negatives, and agree that they are still really quite nice, especially if you have two small speakers and an iPod for tunes (I prefer the sweet, sweet tones of RB20 for six days though )

[Snowman]

My only advice is to try and find a car like yours with a cage and a full interior and sit in it with a helmet on.

My old race car I had the same intensions and was adamant that I wanted to keep all of my interior trim for lots of different nice reasons. The one thing I didn't take into account was the impact this would have on the cage design and as such anyone sitting in either the drivers or passengers chair with a helmet on was pretty much in constant contact with the cage. You could never quite get your head dead straight and you had to deal with constant "banging" on your helemt when racing.

One of the single main reasons I wanted to build a new car rather than repair the old car after my little incident was so I could rectify that situation and build a new car without the head banging issues!

So yeah my old car was an exceptionally nice car with a cage. The new car is a "coke can" as you say and I wouldn't go back the other way again. (Mind you I haven't had to live in the coke can yet so maybe I'll change my mind back again after the noise and rattles drive me insane! LOL)

[skylinegtts]

ben,

what have you found to be the issue causing the whine? centre bearing?

also on the topic of targa/circuit cars, whats the go with bolt in cages, im looking into this at the moment because the car will still be street registered. id prefer a weld in cage, so im thinking along the lines of having the side intrusions to bolt in and the rest of the cage welded in.

[LotusGTR]

I beleive this is mostly covered earlier in the thread. You'll no doubt be steered away from bolt in cages and even welded ones with bolt in side instrusion. I got told, do not be 'half pregnant' with a cage, and especially for tarmac rally.

ben,

what have you found to be the issue causing the whine? centre bearing?

also on the topic of targa/circuit cars, whats the go with bolt in cages, im looking into this at the moment because the car will still be street registered. id prefer a weld in cage, so im thinking along the lines of having the side intrusions to bolt in and the rest of the cage welded in.

[LotusGTR]

Interesting as mine does have the diff whine....(adds to the list $$$). How much weight do you shed getting rid of the interior?

Nick, I'd strip the interior mate.

We're not talking about a rose-jointed and straight-cut gearbox car here, it's a completely rubber bushed road car with a road car gearbox, so even completely stripped of sound deadening, they're still quite habitable.

Pay attention to getting rid of the typical Skyline diff whine though, that is one thing that can become annoying and tiring on long transport sections.

I'm sure my nav Tim and the other Skyline runners would concurr that the benefits (it's faster and easier stop too!) of lightening your car will far outweight the negatives, and agree that they are still really quite nice, especially if you have two small speakers and an iPod for tunes (I prefer the sweet, sweet tones of RB20 for six days though )

[warps]

You could never quite get your head dead straight and you had to deal with constant "banging" on your helemt when racing.

Do you actually notice it when driving though? Mine is similar - easy to hit your helmet on the cage and it restricts movement somewhat. I was gutted the first time I sat in the car with a helmet, as I hadn't considered it when buying. Thing is, I don't notice it at all while competing, and that's even when having to look out of the side window in gravel events.

[LotusGTR]

Again interesting as I've heard this before, especially with R32s. I can't imagine how annoying it would be banging your helmet on the cage would be.....I'm 5'9" but even so my head is already really close to the roof lining at the top of the door openings. Add a cage and a helmet and we're taking mm's of clearance. Probl too close.

Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and strip the old girl. Now I'm finding Roy's word ringing in my ears as I'm going to have to wreck my nice car.

My only advice is to try and find a car like yours with a cage and a full interior and sit in it with a helmet on.

My old race car I had the same intensions and was adamant that I wanted to keep all of my interior trim for lots of different nice reasons. The one thing I didn't take into account was the impact this would have on the cage design and as such anyone sitting in either the drivers or passengers chair with a helmet on was pretty much in constant contact with the cage. You could never quite get your head dead straight and you had to deal with constant "banging" on your helemt when racing.

One of the single main reasons I wanted to build a new car rather than repair the old car after my little incident was so I could rectify that situation and build a new car without the head banging issues!

So yeah my old car was an exceptionally nice car with a cage. The new car is a "coke can" as you say and I wouldn't go back the other way again. (Mind you I haven't had to live in the coke can yet so maybe I'll change my mind back again after the noise and rattles drive me insane! LOL)

[Marlin]

ben,

what have you found to be the issue causing the whine? centre bearing?

also on the topic of targa/circuit cars, whats the go with bolt in cages, im looking into this at the moment because the car will still be street registered. id prefer a weld in cage, so im thinking along the lines of having the side intrusions to bolt in and the rest of the cage welded in.

Normally the whine is poorly setup diff, entailing shimming and lapped pinion/ring gear. Remembering most of our diffs are 20 years old now, and may have been upgraded with differing LSD centres etc, but seldom do most of us actually completely rebuild and setup the diff.

The 34 N1 we had was very noisy, and unfortunaly required a complete replacement pinion and ring gear, which was many thousands as to my suprise the N1 diff had subtle variations, but what they were I can't remember now.

[Marlin]

Both the 34's I've been in felt very uncomfortable with cage intrusion around the head, and I remember thinking "how the fark can I drive this!?", but I found once the timer said go, I'd forgotten all about it and never once noticed the intrusion, just like Warps says.

As for weight of the interior Nick, I don't know for sure, but stripping weight is king.

As Snowy has found (like we did with our blue 34 from 2006), it's nice to keep the "interior" and appear as though you're not trying too hard, but it does cost speed, but most importantly, it costs you in the most important area, braking performance.

Eg; Even if it made, say, a 3% difference (say, 3 metres?) to your braking lengths, extrapolate that over 500 competetive kilometres, with say four corners per kay, that means you're not on the brakes for six whole kilometres..... substantial (do I have the sums right?).

Edited August 27, 2010 by Marlin

[Snowman]

Do you actually notice it when driving though? Mine is similar - easy to hit your helmet on the cage and it restricts movement somewhat. I was gutted the first time I sat in the car with a helmet, as I hadn't considered it when buying. Thing is, I don't notice it at all while competing, and that's even when having to look out of the side window in gravel events.

I didn't really notice it HEAPS until the first time I tried to run with a HANS type device. Then the 2 devices wanted to fight each other for which position my head needed to be in as the HANS wanted my head straight and the cage didn't agree. Consequently I only ran the HANS for one stage and took it off. But I want to start using one full time going forwards.

But even without the HANS I still got annoyed from time to time with it. The Nav's I've had that have been far too tall for their own good tended to get REALLY annoyed with it to the point where they all took the coushins out of the seats just to try and get under the bar! My new Nav suffers from Too Tall Syndrome as well so I'm sure he will be happy for the difference.

[navdan]

The Nav's I've had that have been far too tall for their own good tended to get REALLY annoyed with it to the point where they all took the coushins out of the seats just to try and get under the bar! ...

I took the cushion out because it was the only way I was going to fit in the car!

...and that aint too comfortable over 2 days, let alone 5!!!

Edited August 27, 2010 by rexdan

[LotusGTR]

Guys, I'll be fitting oil and water temp and oil pressure gauges. Can anyone give me some feedback on what brands to look at and where to buy? I'm interested in mounting options too. If they can be made to mount in the (fairly) useless OEM triple DIN gauges go then so much the better.

Thank you.