Mobile Speed Cameras

[fatz]

your speedo reads 9 km/h under your true speed and you still get booked

lol

so your doing 117 on the speedo to get nabbet at 105

i am getting smarter reading this!

ps nice dato!

[spranga]

IMO the problem is that these days safe driving is by default defined as not speeding. THis is due to the RTA's obession with speed and regulating driving decisions with changing speed zones and cameras. Driving is more complicated than simply adhering to speed limits. It is the most dangerous thing most people do every day and everyone (including me) knows someone who has been killed or badly injured on the road; however without speeding accidents will still happen. My disabled brother was run over by a person driving in a petrol station. She drove straight over him while talking on the phone at 5km/h..... If she had got his head rather than his torso she would have killed him... at 5km/h....

No one can argue against physics, the faster you are going the bigger the impact will be; however there are times when driving at the limit is dangerous and times when driving above the limit is relatively safe. (I say relatively safe because not moving at any speed is the safest strategy of all!) There is such as thing as safe speeding. People do it all the time. They observe the road conditions and drive their car accordingly, constantly adjusting speed to suit grip levels, traffic levels, visability, vehicle type etc..I think these people however are unlikely to travel more than 10-20% over the posted limit. I consider driving down a higly populated suburban street with cars parked on either side of the road (obsuring your view of entering pedestrians) at 50 or 60 is more dangerous than driving at 130 on a deserted highway at 6am with clear vision. You don't have to drive at the prescribed limit but many people are content to drive to the limit without considering what is appropriate. I am often amazed at people who dangerously drive through congested shopping centre car parks at 20 or 30. I am sure some of these same people would regard doing 130 on the fwy as dangerous and anti-social yet they are far more at risk of causing harm.

The speed limit on the street where I live is 60km/h. The speed limit on the Anzac Bridge is also 60km/h. My street is single lane and in a highly populated built up residential area of Sydney opposite a popular water front park. The Anzac Bridge is 4-5 lanes without pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. If I drive down my street at 60km/h it is apparently 'safe' however if I drive across the Anzac Bridge at 6am at 70km/h I am being 'driving dangerously'. WTF!

The speed limit on the road outside my front door is 60km/h. My house is 6 doors down from an off camber corner. Every year when it is wet 4-5 cars have minor crashes into the kerb, parked cars or small trees on this corner. Without exception whenever I go to see if everyone is OK the driver says to me ''I wasn't even speeding''. Correct, but you have no idea of what your cars limits are or how to read the road and adjust your speed accordingly. None of these drivers get fined yet they clearly do not take driving very seriously and don't understand the concept of driving to the prevailing conditions.

I would like to see government advertising, licensing arrangements and campagins which broaden the definition of safe driving and target the development of roadcraft. What about some ads which demonstrate the effect of poor concentration, driving too close to the car in front etc... not some ad that shows a car magically crashing as the speedo goes above the limit.

I am not in favour of reckless drivers who speed everywhere. However safe driving has been hijacked by revenue raising and now big business...

[MBS206]

IMO the problem is that these days safe driving is by default defined as not speeding. THis is due to the RTA's obession with speed and regulating driving decisions with changing speed zones and cameras. Driving is more complicated than simply adhering to speed limits. It is the most dangerous thing most people do every day and everyone (including me) knows someone who has been killed or badly injured on the road; however without speeding accidents will still happen. My disabled brother was run over by a person driving in a petrol station. She drove straight over him while talking on the phone at 5km/h..... If she had got his head rather than his torso she would have killed him... at 5km/h....

No one can argue against physics, the faster you are going the bigger the impact will be; however there are times when driving at the limit is dangerous and times when driving above the limit is relatively safe. (I say relatively safe because not moving at any speed is the safest strategy of all!) There is such as thing as safe speeding. People do it all the time. They observe the road conditions and drive their car accordingly, constantly adjusting speed to suit grip levels, traffic levels, visability, vehicle type etc..I think these people however are unlikely to travel more than 10-20% over the posted limit. I consider driving down a higly populated suburban street with cars parked on either side of the road (obsuring your view of entering pedestrians) at 50 or 60 is more dangerous than driving at 130 on a deserted highway at 6am with clear vision. You don't have to drive at the prescribed limit but many people are content to drive to the limit without considering what is appropriate. I am often amazed at people who dangerously drive through congested shopping centre car parks at 20 or 30. I am sure some of these same people would regard doing 130 on the fwy as dangerous and anti-social yet they are far more at risk of causing harm.

The speed limit on the street where I live is 60km/h. The speed limit on the Anzac Bridge is also 60km/h. My street is single lane and in a highly populated built up residential area of Sydney opposite a popular water front park. The Anzac Bridge is 4-5 lanes without pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. If I drive down my street at 60km/h it is apparently 'safe' however if I drive across the Anzac Bridge at 6am at 70km/h I am being 'driving dangerously'. WTF!

The speed limit on the road outside my front door is 60km/h. My house is 6 doors down from an off camber corner. Every year when it is wet 4-5 cars have minor crashes into the kerb, parked cars or small trees on this corner. Without exception whenever I go to see if everyone is OK the driver says to me ''I wasn't even speeding''. Correct, but you have no idea of what your cars limits are or how to read the road and adjust your speed accordingly. None of these drivers get fined yet they clearly do not take driving very seriously and don't understand the concept of driving to the prevailing conditions.

I would like to see government advertising, licensing arrangements and campagins which broaden the definition of safe driving and target the development of roadcraft. What about some ads which demonstrate the effect of poor concentration, driving too close to the car in front etc... not some ad that shows a car magically crashing as the speedo goes above the limit.

I am not in favour of reckless drivers who speed everywhere. However safe driving has been hijacked by revenue raising and now big business...

Contradictory post is contradictory.

[wht510]

....However safe driving has been hijacked by revenue raising and now big business...

Agree with everything and all well said.

As you posted: The government can't make 10's of millions of revenue dollars from advertising about 'driving for the conditions', or 'poor concentration' etc. It's just easier to fine poor sods going 4km/h over the speed limit. Even though what you say makes perfect sense.

If the Government wants to make revenue, why not throw the book at more people talking on mobile phones and RAISE the fines?

Also dis-obeying the road rules (such as keeping left unless overtaking in 80+ speed zones or crossing double lines etc.)?

Perhaps even more car checks to make sure the car is road worthy? (in VIC we don't have a yearly check)

Why? Because it doesn't make as much money as easily!

You can't argue with Physics (I like to but never win - damn it), but you can argue with better road design, positioning of safety devices to stop those telephone/power lines from being hit, remove certain trees, REMOVE all the stupid clutter road signs, and replace them with easier to read, better positioned etc. etc. Cars are getting safer/stronger more stable with more safety features and stop in quicker distances with your average Fred Nerk driving them. They are even becoming "pedestrian friendly'". Yet speed limits are being lowered? Pedestrians are being fooled into thinking because the car is going slower they can cross. The 40 zones are increasing traffic making crossing harder and the gaps between these 'slugs' of traffic are getting smaller due to the congestion and the rule of "you can only go as fast as the slowest section of road during peak hour".

I wouldn't mind as much if I KNEW the revenue was going into better roads and road design, but it isn't. Most of the Vicroads traffic engineers must either be effing stupid, or have effing stupid rules they have to adhere to. (probably the latter). I could rattle off numerous roads which I think are dangerous (and I usually drive under the speed limit due to this), but i'd be here for ages. No one is fixing them. You can speak to Vicroads, and they note it, but don't do anything unless it's a pot hole or traffic light cycle.

Meh.

[oweban]

Contradictory post is contradictory.

People != All people. There'll always be people out there who think they can drive in the wet how they do in the dry, and conversely, there's people who stay aware at all times and adjust accordingly. I'd like to say I'm the latter, but I'm probably more in the middle.

[wht510]

Contradictory post is contradictory.

Who cares?

In Germany and Italy the government performed a study which PROVED those who travel faster than the general traffic velocity (so not necessarily speeding over the limit), and those who sped over the limit, where less prone to be involved in an accident and less prone to cause an accident.

1. They were more 'awake' or alert when driving.

2. Other people noticed the speed difference and therefore noticed the driver in their car and kept away from them (so didn't merge into them etc.)

3. The driver who was 'speeding' would generally remove themselves from the 'cluster' of traffic and therefore the statistics involved in having an accident with another motor vehicle were lessened.

4. These drivers were generally more confident.

The Japanese also performed a similar study which wasn't for motor vehicles, but for motor bikes. Guess what? They found the same thing!

I would consider myself as a safe "speeder" for the previously mentioned reasons.

YET in Australia, the focus is so much on speed we get chastised every 5 seconds in TV advertisements for going 5km/h over. Then the media gets brainwashed into thinking 5km/h is "hoon driving", which in turn brain washes the general public who keep slowing down. Go figure.

Makes it easier to get away from all the mindless idiots sitting on 90 in a 100 zone up each others bumpers.

[spranga]

but you can argue with better road design, positioning of safety devices to stop those telephone/power lines from being hit, remove certain trees, REMOVE all the stupid clutter road signs, and replace them with easier to read, better positioned etc. etc.

I wouldn't mind as much if I KNEW the revenue was going into better roads and road design, but it isn't.

Totally agree!

Contradictory post is contradictory.

No contradiction. One driver is driving to the conditions and possibly going over the speed limit and not crashing, the other is driving under the limit and not driving to the conditions and crashing.

[MBS206]

Those studies, yes are quite true from those countries.

In Australia though, have you opened your eyes up?

I watch EVERY DAY on the freeway cars that are travelling higher then the general traffic flows speed (Like mentioned in the study), now these people are normally the ones involved in the most near misses. Why? Because people in Australia DON'T check the speed another vehicle is travelling at. Half the time they don't even check if there IS a car there.

I'm not sure about you guys, but seeing first hand how people actually drive in other countries, is a real eye opener.

People say Asians can't drive for shit, but I'll tell you right now, I would rather drive on a road in Thailand, then in Australia. (And I'm sitting right now in Bangkok saying this too )

Why? Because in other countries people drive predictibly. Everyone is taught to drive exactly the same, they know if they do something what other people will do. In Australia it's pure luck if you can do something and have two people react the same way!

Australians truly are shit house drivers!

Oh and we know that these cameras are for revenue raising and not increasing road safety. But what everyone is bitching about in this thread (Until the last page) is about how unfair it is to get BOOKED for speeding, when the simple matter of the fact is, Don't Speed, Don't get Caught.

Unfortunately, people don't understand this concept, they still think that speeding is a right. No, it's illegal.

If you don't speed, you won't have a problem!

Oh, and as for those who speed a bit over the limit/general traffic flow, I'm not sure if you've ever done a road trip to say Queensland from NSW (Or something similar), but I can recall on EVERY TRIP a car that has "sped past safely" only to over take them an hour later as they're now doing 10 - 20KM/H under the limit. Then an hour after that they "speed past safely" again, and this continues on the whole journey. And do you know what causes this? The extra alertiveness drains their energy quicker, they lose concentration, and reduce their ability to maintain the same speed, so now they're tired, fluctating in speed, and more of a danger on the road.

So while you might be "More alert while safely speeding" the evidence is out there that you become fatigued quicker.

[spranga]

I'm not sure about you guys, but seeing first hand how people actually drive in other countries, is a real eye opener.

People say Asians can't drive for shit, but I'll tell you right now, I would rather drive on a road in Thailand, then in Australia. (And I'm sitting right now in Bangkok saying this too )

Why? Because in other countries people drive predictibly. Everyone is taught to drive exactly the same, they know if they do something what other people will do. In Australia it's pure luck if you can do something and have two people react the same way!

Australians truly are shit house drivers!

I have experienced the same overseas, particularly in Italy. Skillful and fast drivers who generally view driving as a skill which they have to develop to survive. It seems there is a relationship between the amount of regulation and the driving skill of the drivers. The more governments try to make drivers drive better with regulation the less attention drivers actually pay to roadcraft and developing their skills.

[wht510]

Whoa there Matt....My eyes are open. By the sounds of it, i've been driving longer than you, and probably seen more in my time on the road, yet I don't tell you to open your eyes. Show some respect young punk (HaHahaha...)

Australians aren't "Shit house drivers". Just some of them. What's with the generalisations?

I'd rather an "extra alertiveness" driver on the road who then stops for half a 15 minute leg stretch every 2 hours and then passes me again, than some brain dead 'safe driver' who isn't alert, who is going under the speed limit and doesn't really care.

Funny you should say a road trip. The missus and I have just come back from SA. Drove 8 hours from Melbourne and pretty much stuck to the speed limit. Funny how the border from Vic to SA changes from 100 to 110. DAMN I'm doing an extra 10 k's an hour! Feels better, more alert despite the fact i've been driving for a while. Roads aren't too bad, and the only thing we hit was locusts! Pity about SA and all of their speed cameras. At least they SHOW where they are. Unlike bloody Melbourne where they are all hidden.

The missus and I shared the driving too. We passed people exactly what you were saying, as we were sitting 2km/h over the speed limit, but stopped and stretched the legs/ate swapped drivers etc. only to catch up to the same twit sitting on 95 in a 100 zone (or 103 in a 110 zone) who hasn't had a break with a line of traffic behind them. They were usually in a car which either had a massive scratch down the side, or accident damage of some description.

Thailand??? HAHAHhahahahahhaha.. You have got to be kidding right? Do they even know what a speed camera is? Do you know how easy it is to get a license in Thailand? Do you know the average speed they drive (HAHAhahaha... it's freaken low). How old is the average car in Thailand? How many accidents do they have/ how many fatalities. Do some research before commenting on another country, and then you can make an informed comment.

I watch EVERY DAY on the freeway cars that are travelling higher then the general traffic flows speed (Like mentioned in the study), now these people are normally the ones involved in the most near misses. Why? Because people in Australia DON'T check the speed another vehicle is travelling at. Half the time they don't even check if there IS a car there.

I'd rather be involved in a near miss than an accident/fatality ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. So i'll keep doing what i'm doing and think nothing of your comment.

Alright, we are going to have to agree to disagree. You've got the law on your side, and i'm arguing the law is an ass and only interested in raising money.

[oweban]

http://www.grsproadsafety.org/page-thailand-28.html

According to official statistics (police), 12,858 people were killed in road crashes in 2005. However the real number might even be higher. According to documentation from the health sector, the real death toll could be 20,000 or more if victims who die after being removed from the crash scene are included.

The primary causes of road crashes are the dangerous mix of motorcyclists and larger vehicles, alcohol impaired driving, and excessive speed. Many road deaths happen during the two national holidays: New Year (6 days) December/January and Songkran (9 days) in April.

[wht510]

Nice!

Statistically speaking if I'm 4km/h over the speed limit, I'm less prone to an accident using European statistics and reports, but using Australian biased statistics, I'm more likely to hit that pedestrian/car/wall/tree instead of stopping in time.

MUARC (Monash University Accident Resarch Centre) - Who are given grants by the government and just happen to be their major user FFS, have vested interests. They HAVE to say what the government wants otherwise they don't get the grant for future work. I know how it works, I used to go to University there.

MUARC is responsible for teaming up with the TAC (Transport Accident Commission) for providing all of these stupid ads. TAC even sponsors MUARC with the money the rape us for registration in VIC.

Buckle up or suffer the pain. - I endorse and practice religiously.

Drowsy drivers die - I endorse and practice having power naps when necessary and wont drive when i'm tired.

Drink/Drive bloody idiot - I endorse and encourage designated drivers. etc.

Concentrate or Kill - I endorse (but do you see many of these ads, or are they as memorable?)

Note: Concentrate or Kill differs from the speed and drink-driving advertising campaigns in that it did not have an associated enforcement campaign. Therefore they couldn't make a buck out of the advertisements or 'Blitz' the drivers with double demerit points etc. Therefore no revenue. (http://monash.edu/mu...s/muarc052.html)

Stop revive and survive - I endorse

Speed Kills - I only partially endorse due to previously mentioned reasons.

5km/h over, you bloody idiot - Get stuffed and stick it where the sun don't shine. Gives them an excuse amongst other things to change the speed limit in 100metres from 40, to 70, to 50 to 60, to 40 repeat until no signs left and throw the book at you at the bottom of a hill. Sorry, but they can get stuffed.

Funnily enough, statistically we are more prone to be a victim of a road rage incident than of having an accident! Do they advertise about that?

[wht510]

The NSW Government recognizes that mobile speed cameras are effective in reducing speeding leading to a reduction in crashes. The introduction of mobile speed camera programs in Queensland and Victoria has reduced casualty crashes in those states by at least 25 per cent.

Yeah? The Victorian mobile speed camera program started in 1990 and supposedly decreased crashes by 25% by 2000. What they don't tell you was when Ford (for example) introduced ABS breaking into the EB Falcon. Most Volvo's Opels etc. (European cars) already had ABS. Yep it was around 91/92. Greater car safety was starting to be implemented into the general public (and we all know how long it takes Australian cars to come up with the goods). What ever statistics they throw at you, there is always other things that can explain (and have been proven) to show a decrease. Another example is the Premier of the time for Victoira; Jeff Kennett RAISED the speed limits by 10km/h and yet the accident level was still decreasing! WHAT THE?

[MBS206]

Whoa there Matt....My eyes are open. By the sounds of it, i've been driving longer than you, and probably seen more in my time on the road, yet I don't tell you to open your eyes. Show some respect young punk (HaHahaha...)

Australians aren't "Shit house drivers". Just some of them. What's with the generalisations?

I'd rather an "extra alertiveness" driver on the road who then stops for half a 15 minute leg stretch every 2 hours and then passes me again, than some brain dead 'safe driver' who isn't alert, who is going under the speed limit and doesn't really care.

Funny you should say a road trip. The missus and I have just come back from SA. Drove 8 hours from Melbourne and pretty much stuck to the speed limit. Funny how the border from Vic to SA changes from 100 to 110. DAMN I'm doing an extra 10 k's an hour! Feels better, more alert despite the fact i've been driving for a while. Roads aren't too bad, and the only thing we hit was locusts! Pity about SA and all of their speed cameras. At least they SHOW where they are. Unlike bloody Melbourne where they are all hidden.

The missus and I shared the driving too. We passed people exactly what you were saying, as we were sitting 2km/h over the speed limit, but stopped and stretched the legs/ate swapped drivers etc. only to catch up to the same twit sitting on 95 in a 100 zone (or 103 in a 110 zone) who hasn't had a break with a line of traffic behind them. They were usually in a car which either had a massive scratch down the side, or accident damage of some description.

Thailand??? HAHAHhahahahahhaha.. You have got to be kidding right? Do they even know what a speed camera is? Do you know how easy it is to get a license in Thailand? Do you know the average speed they drive (HAHAhahaha... it's freaken low). How old is the average car in Thailand? How many accidents do they have/ how many fatalities. Do some research before commenting on another country, and then you can make an informed comment.

I'd rather be involved in a near miss than an accident/fatality ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. So i'll keep doing what i'm doing and think nothing of your comment.

Alright, we are going to have to agree to disagree. You've got the law on your side, and i'm arguing the law is an ass and only interested in raising money.

Statistically speaking Australia has had a decline in the number of deaths for a while.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2009/pdf/rsr_04.pdf

Also, it's not that EASY to get a licence in Thailand actually. Many people are unlicenced...

Secondly, average speed on their freeways (Where most of their accidents occur) is roughly 130 - 140KM/H... Point... According to statistics, speed must kill...

But how they drive in the city, I'd much rather then in Australia. Australians are dangerous on the road! Thai drivers KNOW what is going on around them all the time! Aussie's don't.

Also, the drivers I was talking about who sit over the speed limit, then slow, normally don't like to take breaks. They try and just push on from the experience I've had on many many road trips.

Something I have noticed in the last 10 years though, is as safety standards, such as the introduction of ABS, TCS, ASM etc, people are starting to drive closer, and pay less attention. I've even had people say "It's okay, the computer will save me" (Or things along those lines). And the funny thing, even the most ADVANCED computer systems in a car won't always be able to save your ass.

My whole thing is, if you want to bitch about mobile speed cameras being just for revenue raising. Look at it this way. It's a voluntary tax.

If we removed the fact that our state and country collects MILLIONS of dollars each year in fines etc and used this money for other things (I'm not saying road fines are going back into roads, but the money is going back into the system) then all of this money would have to come from involuntary taxes... IE, our actual tax would INCREASE.

I'm happy if the government wants to keep revenue raising from people who want to speed. As it keeps my taxes lower, and I'm able to avoid paying the voluntary taxes by just slowing a little...

[wht510]

Contradictory post is contradictory!

Hope you get done going down a hill doing 64 in a 60 zone.

[Cassbo]

This thread herps my derp

[jawrgy]

LMAO, u would rather drive in thailand than Australia....... Hop on a moped in Thailand and u would not last a week. You will be carried to the hospital in some guys ute, the same ute used to transport animals(ambulances are very scarce in the remote or even city parts) then have steal mesh used to get rid of the gravel scars. Thailand is a still considered a third world country where the majority of the population still use farms as their main source of income. I got nothing against Thailand, loved the place when i went but to say you are safer on their roads than Australian roads is utter stupidity.

[MBS206]

Contradictory post is contradictory!

Hope you get done going down a hill doing 64 in a 60 zone.

I keep control of my speed.

That's what the gearbox is for, selecting the right gear, for the right conditions, to prevent over run.

[wht510]

I keep control of my speed.

That's what the gearbox is for, selecting the right gear, for the right conditions, to prevent over run.

AWESOME SKILLS! Pity your speedo is within 10%, the needle of your speedo is 2km/h in width and your reaction time is probably pretty average. So out with it..........You drive like a granny

[zebra]

SO many f**k bags in this thread

Dont speed, dont get fined. simple.

Not that fkn hard to understand...if you wanna live in a county with Autobahns Move to Germany

Dont wanna move then put up with the "nanny state" Princess