Front Page Advertiser : Restriction For Young P-plate Drivers

[Madaz]

yeah log book ftl how hard is it to take an instructor around and PROVE you can actually drive

[Mr.Massive]

Must be a typo, no mention of rb25’s at all? Yet when a gtst blows a tire on the side of the road and a bus sideswipes it its front page material.

I am with this law to lower death tolls but economically speaking this is a blow straight to the face of the car market.

The law comes in on September the 4th on the 3rd I’m putting up concrete barriers at the front of my house, there are going to be a lot of pissed off drivers that I don’t want to be near.

[Big Fella]

the only downside really is the fact that mechanical apprentices are going to be screwed - a lot of people will lose their jobs over this, unless they can get an exemption. Think of jarvis ford that sell a lot of xr6/xr8's, and do the servicing etc - or even your local mechanic...

in principle I agree with it, however its very poorly executed - not enough thought has been put into the consequences - and it tends to favour the rich over the poor - why can a p plater drive daddys turbocharged merc but not a supercharged holden or a turbocharged ford? it smacks of classism

that said, i hope it'll help improve the image of import owners and enthusiasts in general but sadly I dont think that will happen.

-D

there are exemptions available if you need to drive the car for work or if the only family car happens to be a high powered vehicle. These laws have existed for ages for motorbikes with the 250cc and more recently with the LAMS rules. I agree with these laws and support them. i reckon it's a great idea

Edited July 3, 2010 by gsr600guy

[jrm]

read it again. some are exempt on the grounds the turbo "is for efficiency" rather than "performance"

cops arse I say

-D

Edit - OK Steve... do u think apprentices on their P plates are going to be legally allowed to drive half the cars they have to work on? Black and white, it says they can't.

In other states, people in this situation just get an excemption - why wouldn't it be the same here?

[Dohmar]

there are exemptions available if you need to drive the car to work or if the only family car happens to be a high powered vehicle. These laws have existed for ages for motorbikes with the 250cc and more recently with the LAMS rules. I agree with these laws and support them. i reckon it's a great idea

I really hope so. It'd be shithouse if we cripple the next generation of mechanical apprentices ability to learn and do their job

some folks can do mechanical work themselves, not me tho - so im glad i can get others to do the work, people that are pros that know what theyre doing

and i do know for a fact steve that there are mechanical apprentices working on high powered cars like typhoons - most of them dont drive them, but on some occasions they would need to take it out on the road (testing wheel alignments etc). im not saying an apprentice is going to do something highly technical like balance a crankshaft or dial in cam settings either... just that they need to learn on the cars we expect them to work on competently when they become qualified mechanics, otherwise its like sitting a kid down and telling them how to drive and chucking them in a car unsupervised - maybe an extreme comparison but there it is

the other downside is that younger members of sau might be affected, even if they are totally responsible, i can think of 3-4 people in particular who are within that age bracket who are very responsible drivers...

half of me likes to think that the youngsters should start on low powered cars to begin with and work their way up (as I have done)

the other half says get them onto the skidpan and give them powerful cars to learn on, and make them do intensive driver training like the finnish do

i dunno what we citizens of sa can do. it seems like we have incompetent people governing the state... adelaide city council has dropped all funding from the clipsal... i give it 2 years max to survive unless they support it in some way

flipside is, if they actually built a bloody motorsport complex, they could move the supercars, f1, lemans etc to the dedicated areas, have motorsport events all year round without disrupting the city - which is their biggest gripe due to the percieved inconvenience to the people that live in the city - same way they ban nightclubs and pubs from being loud when some daft noob decided to zone the place next door 'residential'...

end rant

-D

EDIT - RE the drag strip at virginia... bob jane several years ago wanted to rezone the area industral so they could keep it open past 11pm

council stalled it... then some f**kwitt build a caravan park next door...

[TALBO]

The change from a driving test (when most of us got our Ps and actually did a 1 hour driving test under pressure) to the log book system was the biggest downfall of our driving system IMHO. Suddenly people who couldn't sit and pass a one hour driving test were easily getting their licences - despite failing a particular manoeuvre 19 times and getting it right the 20th time, and then being able to tick that manoeuvre off in their log book. Pure insanity.

I see so many shocking drivers every day - most of them trying to kill me, unfortunately. Between the massive influx of new immigrants (and without being racist this is the biggest problem group - most abhorrent things I see on the roads in the North-eastern area are of African or Middle-Eastern appearance), and the rapidly ageing population, combined with the decrepit state of our unmaintained roads, it is a huge wonder the death toll isn't 10x times what it is now.

+1. My sister got her license using the log book and she can't even reverse parallel park and almost never looks when changing lanes and reversing

Will be interesting to see if there will be exemptions to the law for apprentice mechanics. I know of at least 2 guys that are mates with my much younger brother who as 1st year apprentices get to test drive (read: thrash the living daylights out of brand new SS/SSV/XR6/XR8's) after the tradesman had finished working on the car on a daily basis.

[RubyRS4]

+1. My sister got her license using the log book and she can't even reverse parallel park and almost never looks when changing lanes and reversing

Will be interesting to see if there will be exemptions to the law for apprentice mechanics. I know of at least 2 guys that are mates with my much younger brother who as 1st year apprentices get to test drive (read: thrash the living daylights out of brand new SS/SSV/XR6/XR8's) after the tradesman had finished working on the car on a daily basis.

+1

I support the new laws ... long time overdue.

The log book system sucks arse. The standard of driving has dropped badly. I reckon they should also be re-tested to get off their P plates, as MOST new drivers seem to forget what speed limits and indicators are for the very second they get their license.

[scandyflick]

im pretty boned. dont get my licence back til november, which puts me on the new system. oh joy of joys.

after owning a v8 and a turbo 4, without crashing and dying (like some people even here seem to expect me to do because of my age and 'inexperience'), ill be thrown back behind the wheel of an econobox until i turn 25 and am apparently responsible enough to drive something bigger again.

seems alot like the drinking age, when im 1 day away from being 18, im too young and immature, the very next day, i can go out and get completely shit faced with the blessings of the powers that be.

same thing here, i can be a day shy of 25 and be too irresponsible, and too inexperienced to drive the cars i have up until now, the very next day, i can go nuts.

i drive better than the majority of people i see on the road, i indicate, i maintain speed, i dont cut people off, im capable of braking in an emergency without f**king up, im capable of maneuvering my car in an emergency without f**king something up, blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

and thanks to an admittedly stupid mistake, that and my 6 years on the road doesnt count for anything now.

rad.

Edited July 3, 2010 by scandyflick

[skwiz]

25/30de prices will be skyrocketing.

[pyro-ns]

short-sighted waste of time and will not "work", just like it has not "worked" in any other state. goodbye more civil liberties. easy target considering the percentage of those affected that do not have a right of reply.

[dangerman4]

Anyone under 21 should be capped at 150hp.

the road deaths 15 yrs ago was tiny and we were driving buckets of shit. (in comparison)

modern technology and insanely stupid governments have spoiled our youth and made them recklous.

so many speed zones have been lowered over the past 15 yrs, and they crap on abouut how its in the comunities best interest etc bla bla. For every 10 or 20 kph they drop the speed limit there increasing road congestion by 25%.

more cars = more crashes.

so by wrapping us in cotton wool they are killing us by the hundred.

and on a side note if i had a 40 - 80k xr6t or a gts etc and i seen a apprentice touching it i would never go to that dealer again.

and there would be some strong words given as i leave.

so dont cry that you wont be able to drive if your a apprentice mechanic.

what a crock.

ive been there and spent the years as a apprentice mechanic and i wouldnt dream of driving something like that.

the head mechanic drives the top end cars and he is the only one.

if you were a apprentice chef would you cook for the queen? the prime minister? a celebrity, who can ruin your reputaion in a split second?

anyone who thinks this is a bad thing should grow up.

[SLED]

most apprentices dont get to work on the F6 typhoon or the v10 merc with a supercharger

no

100% CORRECT

I see so many shocking drivers every day - most of them trying to kill me, unfortunately. Between the massive influx of new immigrants (and without being racist this is the biggest problem group - most abhorrent things I see on the roads in the North-eastern area are of African or Middle-Eastern appearance), and the rapidly ageing population, combined with the decrepit state of our unmaintained roads, it is a huge wonder the death toll isn't 10x times what it is now.

and you try following them around Adelaide all day!!!!!

and i do know for a fact steve that there are mechanical apprentices working on high powered cars like typhoons - most of them dont drive them, but on some occasions they would need to take it out on the road (testing wheel alignments etc). im not saying an apprentice is going to do something highly technical like balance a crankshaft or dial in cam settings either... just that they need to learn on the cars we expect them to work on competently when they become qualified mechanics, otherwise its like sitting a kid down and telling them how to drive and chucking them in a car unsupervised - maybe an extreme comparison but there it is

Sorry Ben, I call B/S and have 1st hand info also.

seems alot like the drinking age, when im 1 day away from being 18, im too young and immature, the very next day, i can go out and get completely shit faced with the blessings of the powers that be.

same thing here, i can be a day shy of 25 and be too irresponsible, and too inexperienced to drive the cars i have up until now, the very next day, i can go nuts.

The 1 day before, 1 day after arguement could apply at any set age limit Dave......there's gotta be a cut off point somewhere.

Anyone under 21 should be capped at 150hp.

the road deaths 15 yrs ago was tiny and we were driving buckets of shit. (in comparison)

and on a side note if i had a 40 - 80k xr6t or a gts etc and i seen a apprentice touching it i would never go to that dealer again.

and there would be some strong words given as i leave.

so dont cry that you wont be able to drive if your a apprentice mechanic.

what a crock.

ive been there and spent the years as a apprentice mechanic and i wouldnt dream of driving something like that.

the head mechanic drives the top end cars and he is the only one.

if you were a apprentice chef would you cook for the queen? the prime minister? a celebrity, who can ruin your reputaion in a split second?

anyone who thinks this is a bad thing should grow up.

Darren, if I was PM, anyone under 25 on the streets after 6pm (7pm in Summer) and not in bed with Fat Cat, would lose 1 testicle

Seriously though, on your 2nd point, I would also be livid if I spent almost $70K on an F6 or GT and some 16 year old took it for a blast...........just does not happen!

[Big Fella]

In most workshops their insurance won't cover apprentices in cars over 60k. i had to wait to be 4th year before i was allowed to roadtest cars, and even then it was with the apprentice trainer.

[Dohmar]

In most workshops their insurance won't cover apprentices in cars over 60k. i had to wait to be 4th year before i was allowed to roadtest cars, and even then it was with the apprentice trainer.

i bet some of the cars u worked on that were under 60k were capable of some mind boggling performance

-D

[chef_stagea]

So say I loose my full liscence... I go back to p's n can't drive the stag :s

Not only gna have the p platers thinking!!

i bet some of the cars u worked on that were under 60k were capable of some mind boggling performance

-D

[Big Fella]

i bet some of the cars u worked on that were under 60k were capable of some mind boggling performance

-D

not likely mate, the first year of my apprenticeship was at a holden dealer, so n o working on cars by myself anyway, and the following 3 years were at a toyota dealer so nothing of interest there at all.

[ax53b70p25]

this will devalue all our cars, the govt has just reduced the market for our type of cars, how ridiculous. why not educate the youngsters instead of restricting them.

[jrm]

Everything devalues your car. Any modifications you do to your car lowers its value, every km you put on it lowers its value, every day that passes since it's manufacturered lowers it's value. You don't buy a car with the devaluation in mind, or you'd never buy a new car (lowers it's value by 5-10% in an instant).

Personally I tend to think anything that makes it less likely for clueless teens with no driving experience going out there with skylines - doing burn-outs, drift, street racing, other anti-social nonsense that brings skylines and imports a bad name is a good thing.

Besides, every other state already equivelant rules to these in-place already, so it's basically a catching-up thing with the rest of Australia.

[GTR-32]

hm.. Im kind of 50 50 with it.. Its a good thing to get young drivers out of high performance vehicles BUT with older/less high performance theres shit brakes, worse cornering etc etc... Young kids are just going to pretend their driving a high performance vehicle and crash that way as once they get into a sketchy situation they cant stop or steer out of it. I dont know how many times the skyline with its 'all wheel steering' corrected itself and got me out of a few situations...

Also young kids are still going to drag there older friends / friends that already owned an import before the laws came in and in turn still cause / have accidents. If not have more accidents because the brakes on an older vehicle doesnt have sufficient stopping power as compared to say a Skyline. With this law they should bring in the teaching of how to drive a vehicle fast and in situations where they have to use there heads to get out of it.. I really cant see it doing much.. Will just bring in more money to the government when their defecting cars with turbos / supercharged.

Also just to ad, as soon as some 25yr olds (the mind of a 16 yr old) go out and get their first import they'll end up killing themselfs and others because their thinking 'oh this cars so much better then that piece of shit i had to drive before, watch me take this bend at 80k's'...

Just my 2c.

[jrm]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree they're going to be older/shitter cars - consider the same amount of money is still going to buy a reasonably up-to-date car with good brakes, just perhaps not as great power or handling. It's also more likely to have features like power steering, ABS, traction control, EBD, etc.

Most cars - even cheap cars - these days really aren't like they were 10-20 years ago. L & P-Platers really do have the capabiltiy of buying a quite safe car for minimal cash - so I don't see the difference being that great.

That said, I'd agree going from an econobox to something with power is a big jump for a P-plater, but so would is it for P-platers who are restricted to 80kph (think that's still the speed limit in some states) to can suddenly go 110kph.

I've being saying this to my friends for yourse - we need more driver education - at the school-level at a start before getting L's - and then there needs to be a requirement for defensive driver training and advanced driver training for people getting their various P levels and before they get their opens. How many kids these days have really pushed their car to their limits and know how a car is going to handle in the wet, or in a bad situation? How many as soon as they get into a serious situation aren't going to be able to react in-time? Then there's simple stuff - just checking blind pots, indicators, etc. I wish people would realise that the indicators aren't there for you as a driver, they're there to indicate to vehicles around you about your intentions - ie before you turn.

On a side-note, I'm also not averse to the idea of people on their opens being re-tested regularly or if they get in an accident or get caught for offenses.

So many drivers on the road these days with no clue how to drive. I have friends who I find it scary being a passenger with because they don't check blind spots, merge without using an indicator, and just generally are obvlivious. I have one friend who has never basically driven at more than 60kph, and finds it scary being on the highway - will go out of her way to avoid roads with a higher speed limit cos they scare her.