Labor = Greens = Epa/decc?

[oweban]

ugh, and all the people on the way to the train station in redfern trying to get me to save the environment

i half want to say to them, guess what i did on the weekend? i watched thousands of litres of fuel get burned, rubber fried... AND I LOVED IT. AND I WILL BE DOING IT NEXT TIME TOO.

while i don't disagree with some of the points the greens have, they REALLY need to dial down the rhetoric.

[FrangaR33]

But as for the ETS, if you really think one iota of it will be there to stop pollution, you really have issues.

An ETS is nothing but a stroke of genius by various industry groups who will make millions convincing morons that the earth will blow up tomorrow unless we raise prices of goods.

ETS my arse!

eg Electricity company A causes x pollution, in turn they have to pay x dollars in ETS. They then up the prices to me and you to cover this cost.

Please someone show me the incentive for this company to lower pollution. What a farking joke!!!!!!

Now, do the same as the above, but mandate that no company can raise a single price higher than the CPI and all of a sudden you have incentive to lower pollution.

Its so simple my 6yo can understand it. But its ok, people need to believe some bullsh!t and i guess the earth ending tomorrow because i don't have an electric car is flavour of the month.

I completely agree i'm all for action on enviromental issues yet all the political partys are going about it in completely the wrong way.

The Greens want a severe ETS cap and trade system - Which will destroy the Australian economy because business's will not be able to afford the carbon credits without passing it onto the consumer, both will completely gut the economy. As Kevin Rudd said (I cant believe I agree with this man on something) "If the greens came into power today Australia would of ground to a halt by 10am tommorow)

Labour wants a less severe ETS cap and trade system - Which like NISMO said will only increase prices for consumers and damage the economy because consumers will have less money in their pockets to buy usual consumer goods (cars, clothes, appliances etc)

The Liberals dont really have any real policy on the enviroment.

Personally I dont believe in human created climate change but by the same token I do believe in preserving the enviroment for future generations. If governments around the world were serious about the enviroment hyrdogen cars would already be in a driveway of every street in the world, renewable energy would be plentiful and already taking some of the strain of fossil fuel power stations. Hybrids and effecient diesels are a stop gap not a solution, bring on the hydrogen powered super cars with 1000nm of torque from 0rpm. If we want to decrease polution and smog do what Don Burke said, plant more tree's, even if they just sit there who cares they are could make Australia incredibly enviromentally friendly and much more cost effectively than a ETS. I mean shit there is already 10's of thousands of work for the dole participants doing their compulsory work, why not use them to plant the trees, the labour is practically free and i'm sure some of them would be more than happy to help the enviroment.

[Jpower]

Australia is behind in what way? We are such a small country, in comparison to the rest of the world, our emission output is next to nothing when compared to China. The growing trend is towards green practice across most industry, water tanks, water usage awareness, solar panels, gas/solar only hot water, fuel efficient cars and renewable fuels domestically. I thinks we're definitely headed in the right direction. If the Greens weren't so unwilling to compromise we would have some sort of policy in action on the issue of emissions.

Once we do have a policy in place it won't matter, because of the high cost of labor in this country (work choices could have resolved some of these issues) and the addition of all the extra taxes to fund an ETS or whatever it will be called, it will be cheaper to import most things from overseas (China) where no such policy exists and they can keep pumping out crap into the atmosphere.

I could ramble on and on about this stuff, I am in noway and expert on it i'm only expressing my views. For the first time in 10 years i'll be voting for a party not because I want them in power, but because I don't want the other's in.

In addressing overall sustainable development.

China isn't western. Same for India. These two countries are going through their respective industrialization. You can't stop it, its the whole nature of developing countries.

However, I am looking at Europe as a whole. They are much more proactive than we are, this is my first hand experience being on a study tour through Europe. To put it into perspective I have been involved with bio-diesel research and development and what I see is that Australia is stuck in the old mindset, that translates into the very slow or not even adopting new and upcoming technologies quick enough. We have way too much 'red tape' and restrictions it becomes a bit of a joke.

I guess population does play a major part, but it shouldn't be an excuse.

Car manufacturers always need to meet new emission requirements and it gets so much harder when each new model needs to come out with more power / torque etc. The very exact reason why the legendary RB26 could not survive for another generation as it was deemed too hard to meet emission laws. It is also why manufacturers have stopped developing new inline 6 engines... they have gone to a V configuration due to compactness and efficiency. (New M3 etc)

These trends can be seen across many industries as you have mentioned.

I've given up on voting... would rather cast a null vote because I thought changes would happen but I'm not holding my breathe for any party or anyone no more. Politicians and there advisory committees have lost touch with the real world in my eyes.

[FrangaR33]

In addressing overall sustainable development.

China isn't western. Same for India. These two countries are going through their respective industrialization. You can't stop it, its the whole nature of developing countries.

However, I am looking at Europe as a whole. They are much more proactive than we are, this is my first hand experience being on a study tour through Europe. To put it into perspective I have been involved with bio-diesel research and development and what I see is that Australia is stuck in the old mindset, that translates into the very slow or not even adopting new and upcoming technologies quick enough. We have way too much 'red tape' and restrictions it becomes a bit of a joke.

I guess population does play a major part, but it shouldn't be an excuse.

Car manufacturers always need to meet new emission requirements and it gets so much harder when each new model needs to come out with more power / torque etc. The very exact reason why the legendary RB26 could not survive for another generation as it was deemed too hard to meet emission laws. It is also why manufacturers have stopped developing new inline 6 engines... they have gone to a V configuration due to compactness and efficiency. (New M3 etc)

These trends can be seen across many industries as you have mentioned.

I've given up on voting... would rather cast a null vote because I thought changes would happen but I'm not holding my breathe for any party or anyone no more. Politicians and there advisory committees have lost touch with the real world in my eyes.

To be quite frank with you Australia's climate change policys are more or less irrelevant to the rest of the world. Real climate change action will never happen on a global level or at the very least not in the next 30 years. Who of us is going to tell 1.7 billion Chinese and Indian people alone who dont currently have cars or anything electrical more sophisticated than a light bulb that they cant have them because of climate change. You cant tell them okay for us to drive and have air conditioners and TV's but they cant because then their country wouldnt meet some carbon target that is absolutely meaningless to them. The Chinese and Indian government would literally have revolutions on their hands if they institued any sort of climate change policy.

Also most countries in the near future wont have any money to spend on renewable energy unless they either raise taxes or cut spending on healthcare, education and welfare. None of which would be politically viable as no political party is willing to make themselves unelectable for probably at least a decade by instituting austerity measures unless the creditors are banging down the door which was the case with Greece.

[GTR-N1]

Personally I dont believe in human created climate change but by the same token I do believe in preserving the enviroment for future generations.

+1

The Iceland (mid ocean rift) eruptions have put more CO2 into the air within 2 months than what cars & trucks have done over the past 4 years.

World temps in Jesus Christ's and Julius Caesar's time were on average, 3 degrees F hotter than they are today.

We contribute to climate change (in a miniscule way), but we hardly cause it.

Growing Melaleuca trees in salinated areas, and Eucalypts in poor soil and deforested areas is still a great way of reducing CO2.

We're still on the cusp of global cooling.

Carbon Tax sux

Greens jack-boot approach sux X2

[Angus Smart]

I vote for more volcanic eruptions!

the best is yet to come! katla should be good

lower temps mean moar snow, and moar drift!

[SECURITY]

i think the idea about climate change is about seeing a trend that could possibly be harmful in the future and rectifying it NOW so it doesnt get to a point where its irreversible. c02 levels will only increase and in approx 50yrs we will be burning even more fossil fuels than today.

but if we acted in 50yrs time when the damage is already done then whats the point?

and its not just emissions, its waste. where are we going to put everything in 50yrs?

[GTR-N1]

What we can do NOW is plant more forests!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3556848

Forests can even counterbalance volcanic eruptions > CO2 ! ! !

[gizzmo]

Labour will cost you money petrol will rise with an ets tax vote libral..

[Marshall]

i don't think us liners should be talking bout the government they all makes promises, when they get elected they all FORGET the promises, so i reckon we should bring back that other fantastic redhead Pauline pantsdown Hanson

[jebud]

Who will fix the roads and build a new race track in Sydney or surroundings.... noone.

I would rather vote for Homer Simpson or Bender.

[mattymagoo22]

All the politicians at the moment are out of touch. My wife keeps saying do something about, why don't you get into politics.... I really don't have the intellectual capacity for it! However, i'm sure there are many people on this site who are quite capable of making it the the political world. So instead of us all whining about how all politicians are tools, someone on here step up to the plate and try to make a difference. Please!

[La Bomba]

Labour government managed to f**k up the Insulation package, they f**ked up the $900 tax payouts where 19 million dollars went to people living f**king overseas, they introuduced a mining tax, they are soo damnnn dumb!!!!!!!!!!! gillard is a dirty ranga athiest. Oh also they manageed to say they fixed the recession by f**king borowing money which will limit our growth in the LONG TERM due to the f**king debt we know hav to pay off which wil be in the form of higher f**king taxes, and they managed to mess up JOHN Howards beautiful budget surplus.

SORYY but labour government makes me angry they do all the wrong things!

UPDATE: $2000 payouts for newer more fuel efficient cars, well julia thats a bit f**king dumb isnt it, pretty sure a 1990 daihatsu charade is mroe fuel eficient than a brand new f**king ford territory! f**kK!!!!!!!!!!

[oweban]

gillard is a dirty ranga athiest.

not really sure how this is relevant. redhairdness and refusal to believe in something there's no proof of (to us) isn't a failing.

but your point on the $2000 rebate etc is interesting; they may actually put limitations on the rebate, such as the car they're buying has to conform to a certain standard.

The charade might use less fuel, but will probably expel a lot more random shit from crappy cats, etc etc... *shrug*

[FrangaR33]

All the politicians at the moment are out of touch. My wife keeps saying do something about, why don't you get into politics.... I really don't have the intellectual capacity for it! However, i'm sure there are many people on this site who are quite capable of making it the the political world. So instead of us all whining about how all politicians are tools, someone on here step up to the plate and try to make a difference. Please!

Its not about intellectual capacity, its about the ability to defend the undefendable and when that fails lie through your teeth to 10s of millions of people. There is no honour or truth in politics, its all about vote buying with whatever policies you can throw out there to appease the masses, that in this country for the most part dont care about politics.

On the whole $2000 for your old car. Any car with Rego and RWC is worth about $1500-$2000 anyway so your not really gaining that much anyway, plus i'm sure the car dealers would come up with a scheme so most of that $2k ends up in their pockets anyway. Just like when the government offered the 2k towards converting cars to LPG, all the installers just put their prices up 1.5-2k.

[D3bb4]

http://bothkindsofpolitics.org/?p=1195 read this

[mattymagoo22]

http://bothkindsofpolitics.org/?p=1195 read this

Thats what i'm talking about. The absolute truth right there. Here here.

[GTR-N1]

http://bothkindsofpolitics.org/?p=1195 read this

Understood.

Well I had Louise Markus at my home for 45 mins last Wed > discussing this 'n that. I said my bit... off my chest now...

[SECURITY]

remember.. a vote for greens isnt a vote for labor. but a vote for labor is a vote for greens.

[GTR-N1]

On the whole $2000 for your old car...

Ask the labor gov't to sign off $20000 for your old clunker and they probably wouldn't notice the extra zero.