Is Bad Tune To Blame (white Plugs/engine Failure)

[krayzie32]

Hi guys,

Went for my first dyno tune wednesday & have to say I came home rather disappointed & sad

Basically i want professional opinion of whats safe tuning, esp as tuners are required to have the knowledge of what they are doing even if the customer does not... I tried asking questions along the way an had learnt a few things that will never be forgotten now

After spending many months & more money than I care to think about doing up the car, i was happy along the way as i thought " my car is in very good care" then on road test returned the car to me with no oil in the bay and coolant in the exhaust   

To give you a basic run-down, car is an R32 GTST with  S2 RB25DET, S2 R33 Ecu, S2 R33 Loom w/custom wiring & S2 R33 5Sp Box w/ custom speedo mod & custom hardie spicer balance 1pc tail shaft with following engine mods:

* Nismo Coppermax Clutch Kit w/Lightweight flywheel

* Apexi Power intake w/solid 3" intake pipe to turbo

* GCG Garrett T3/T4 TB34H .50 Comp .58 Rear, 10psi actuator

* Standard RB25 Exhaust Manifold

* Liverpool Exhaust 3" V Band Dump/Front Pipe, High Flow Cat.

* Cooling Pro FMIC 600x300x70

* Standard RB25Plenum & Trottle

* Standard RB25 370cc Injectors

* Walbro 255Lh 550hp fuel-pump w/relay bypass

* Greeddy Profec B spec II Boost Controller

Fuel: BPUltimate

Oil: Castrol Edge Sport 5w40  

Engine had compression test, leak-down, etc performed not long ago with great results, car was runnin rich when delivered to tuner, the turbo was installed 4days prior and then towed home, with fresh engine oil and coolant put in night before the tune amd thouroughly check prior, the car was limped to the tuner as tow was not available in such short notice amd tuner was 5mins up the road, also after more than 24runs and car being switched off seemed fine, as car was started back up to drive off the dyno before road test ot would idle & was hunting and tuner ran over and quick ly pushed more fuel in the map thus suggesting it was lean, then went for a test drive with heart wrenching results.

Anyway, the car only made 213.1Rwkw @ 14.5psi and he kept stressing its a mainline dyno it reads low etc etc,

Along the way the car was pinging quite alot on the dyno, i dont know too much about pinging and afrs until now and i guess its too late

They printed out dyno sheets and afrs etc etc and then when the engine failed the sheets went missing and they supplied me with bogus sheets with only peak power so luckily i took photos along the way.  

Below are some dyno sheets to support my claim but i dont think i shouldnt be in the loss, at the end of it they charged for thier time and sent me on my way i was left stumped and sent with very little information and have a massive heartache infront of me..., i pointed out there was coolant in the exhaust, they pulled out the plugs and the tips were very white (brandnew plugs that were changed on site when a base map was established) and the 5th plug full of coolant. They said sorry not my problem heres a tow truck number bye. Few tuners habe said that was way too lean for my car and australian fuel but id like the correct information if i am going to get covered for my loss...

I dont know what to do i would like some info regarding safe tuning as he was well aware it was a stocl motor and i have also let him know this was my first dyno tune ever. 

Sorry for the massive post   

Trying to give the most info I can to help with diagnosis. (if anyone actually reads this whole thing...)

Any ideas or suggestions you may have are welcome.

[krayzie32]

Forgot to mention tune started around 1030 engine failed around 1230

[zebra]

I see no mention of a tuneable ECU, how did they tune it?

eg you say the tuner added fuel...yet I see no way of him being able to do it?

[The Dan]

Diagnosis - pinged its head off, blew head gasket

Goodluck proving it was the tuner, and even if you can.....good luck getting recourse. Been there many times before. It's a hard road. That's why I only use Sean at EFI performance for my tuning now....too much heartache with everyone else I have tried

[75coupe]

what exactly were they adjusting?

there is no way I can see of actually tuning it other than timing?

Turning boost up until it runs lean I guess

[defari]

11000+rpm?

[zebra]

I noticed that too...Prob just have the dyno configured wrong

[krayzie32]

Ecu: HKS F-Con SZ with ECR33 Plug & Play Loom

Tuner is Licensed HKS Pro Gold Dealer with All correct software etc

i just dont like the way it was handled, all sweet talk and that before tune, after tune was sorry cant help ya...

Not my problem

Edited July 23, 2010 by krayzie32

[75coupe]

lol maybe its reading the RPMs right???

I initially thought nah calibrated wrong, but the head gasket did blow after doing something...

[Takahashi GTR]

11294 rpm? F#@& me that is ridiculous. Must be an error.

[krayzie32]

Rpm was actually around half 11000+ rpm said was not getting good signal from clamp meter...

Then again blew the Head off...

[zebra]

Id bet the late model CAS has not being wired properly, same issue happens with Greddy EMU's, It did with mine and it read 10,000+ just cranking so it makes ign timing go all over the shop.

[krayzie32]

His clamp meter had been playing up prior to my car

Edited July 23, 2010 by krayzie32

[KiwiRS4T]

What power were you expecting with stock injectors and afm? How was it to be tuned and if you haven't got any means of tuning why did the "tuners" accept the job without talking to you about that? [Edit: see you have F-Con]If you have only a blown headgasket you have got off lightly.

If you have spent a lot of time and money doing up your pride and joy you need to spend a reasonable amount of time researching a workshop that knows about Rb engines and has not just a dyno and someone who knows how to operate it but a tuner with a solid reputation.

The only Sydney tuner whose fame has spread as far as Auckland is Yavuz from Unigroup Engineering but ask around for recommendations.

[Moodles2]

Don't RB25 AFMs max out at 200kw? maybe the tuner attempted to (I forgot the term you use when you've maxed out the AFM voltage and tuning it blindly) and in doing that did the damage then.

I just think it's strange to own a HKS ecu in Australia since there are little to no "licensed" HKS tuners. I googled the HKS F-Con SZ as I have never heard of it,The F-Con SZ isn't a full aftermarket ECU, but a fuel & ignition piggyback.

[krayzie32]

Ive noted that i have ecr33 ecu with f-con sz piggy back ecu, Z32 AFM, all the goodies, so wasnt blind.

The tuner is reputable tuber i just think he was being rushy... Not taking proper care,

letting car cool down, checking plugs after few runs to see if it was too lean or not.

F-Con SZ is actually what i wanted because its great at doing its fuel & ignition timing and the factory ecu can sort the rest of the normal stuff out, also very easy to tune, run multiple maps, rev limiter, etc etc

[The Dan]

Would you run a 100m sprint with a gay clown tied to your back?

No. Cause he'd f**k you the whole way....just like a piggyback ECU does

[wolverine]

^^ lol

[SS8_Gohan]

around 240rwkw we found was the limit with my standard Rb25 AFM - changed to Z32, no issues - stock AFM should be fine at those levels.

[R31Nismoid]

AFM "max" points vary depending on the factors involved.

Can be 20-30rwkw difference quite easily.

Overall this story does not sound good at all...

Going off the AFR graphs it's not exactly running super lean or anything, but then AFR's alone does not mean it it's det'in its head off.

So overall i agree with Dan's comments thus far. Sounds like one or two big runs with a lot of DET has ended your motors party