Replace Current Car With...

[No Crust Racing]

I bought an S13 earlier this year as a learning aid to get my mechanical skills up, test my driving ability, and see if I really wanted to get into motorsport as a hobby given the cost, time etc.

I've had a good time for sure, though more track time is a must, but I'm already thinking about the replacement car because I know a CA18DET powered Silvia will only take me so far and I came from a background of Skylines, one SII R33 and one SII R33 GT-R. I'm, not about to do this tomorrow but having an idea in mind will determine how far I take the Silvia modification wise.

To make matters worse, I wished I'd never sold my GT-R and on top of that the missus bought me a really nice GT-R Leather wallet from the R35 range of accessories from Nissan Japan for my birthday.

In reality, is moving to an R33 GT-R as a track car a good idea? To clarify I mean track oriented but still street reg'd as is the case for my silvia so if i want i can attend cruises, go to workshops easily enough etc, though the mods are definitely not street legal and the car is rarely driven on the streets, just kept registered.

Or is sticking with the Silvia lineup, say S15, or going to something like an Evo 7 a better idea. I know it's personal preference for sure, Evo and S15 are newer but I reckon both will run me similar dollars for engine rebuilds and upgrades though I'd expect the GT-R to be a touch more than both.

I realise some of you might be a bit GT-R biased but objectively, what do you think?

Edited July 26, 2010 by ActionDan

[FineLine]

If you're looking for a car to serve dual duty I guess a gtr or an evo might be the medicine Dan.

If you're looking to build a super quick track car stay with what you have.

The amount of mildly modded silvias running amazingly quick lap times is impressive.

Refit with an sr 20 or an rb 25 and do all the right spenshun bits etc and they become a very handy weapon indeed.

[No Crust Racing]

I think if I stayed Silvia, I would atleast go newer so I can have 5 stud brakes/rims. S14a or S15 would be the trick.

[evil_weevil]

With the cost of replacing the CA to a built/modded SR as an option, changing everything to 5 studd etc, Id just get an s14 and sell s13.

They are low teen's these days and some out there have aound 200rwkw which in their form will be a great platform.

S15 would be high teens and again another good option.

Otherwise the EVO would be next choice in my books.

[zebra]

Why not just convert the s13 to 5 stud?

all the silvias are the same underneath, So as Noel said convert to SR20 and spend money on some good under pinnings and you will be faster than a mild GTR by a long way and save some money doing so.

Edit - Or you can just do what Chubbs said lol

[No Crust Racing]

I think cost/effort of swapping in an SR and going 5 stud is not worth it given what S14's are worth in my opinion.

Another consideration is eligibility, If I wanted to attend sprints or do any door to door racing. Am I going to run into issues with any of the cars I have in my head.

So at this stage there is not much support for the R33 as a track car.

Another thing to consider is that I would like to be able to drive the car on the street from time to time and a Silvia with mad aero and track spec'd is a bit more of a standout than a modded GT-R that would run the same times.

EDIT: The Silvia issue is partly my own doing though, semi slicks, GT spoiler, no interior from behind the drive seat etc as I've been trying to pick up seconds on the cheap plenty of GT-R's/Evo's out there kill my lame lap times and run full interior and air con etc.

Edited July 26, 2010 by ActionDan

[nismoman]

Small budget track car = Silvia

Best bang for buck over GTR and Evo.

Just comes down to your budget really. Maybe sell the S13 and update to a later model Silvia.

I would go for S14 model as it's the cheapest version of the S-Chassis with 5 stud and decent brakes from factory.

Should be able to pick up a neat one for around $10k-12k maybe less.

Edited July 26, 2010 by nismoman

[DJRIFT]

i would personaly go straight for a S14. the money saved over the S15 goes straight into mods. i personly like the s14 sII over the s15 but like every nissan they get better as they get newer.

i think if you want somthing that spends more time on the track than in a shop or on jack stands a SR engine would be better. i know there is plenty of for and againsts for both engines but i just stink if you do the work on the car yourself the SR option is easier and cheaper and to me that means more track time. more track time equals more fun and better value for dolars.

but on the flip side a mildly modded r33 GTR will probably kick the pants of the s chassis times.

[ssxRicho]

yeh im bias, there is nothing wrong with a 33 gtst track day car.

'apparently' they are boats and that is why you see alot of 32's around.

i've had no problems with my gtst. evo's are too easy to drive, so i wouldnt consider one.

33 gtst will need minimum of:-

- 1.5 way diff

- 324mm rotors and caliper adapters (i would get 8 pot ksport upgrade tho)

The standard size rotor are just too small. As well as the normal power and supporting mods.

Just like any other import, there are heaps of parts around for them. As someone crashes one on the street

almost everyday of the week.

My pockets arent deep enough for a gtr. You dont see many gtr's at the track that have standard engines, the majority

of the gtst/gtt are still unopened though.

[No Crust Racing]

Small budget track car = Silvia

Best bang for buck over GTR and Evo.

Just comes down to your budget really. Maybe sell the S13 and update to a later model Silvia.

I would go for S14 model as it's the cheapest version of the S-Chassis with 5 stud and decent brakes from factory.

Should be able to pick up a neat one for around $10k-12k maybe less.

The S14a is an great package imo, I'm interested to hear from people running GT-R's as dual purpose track/street cars though in so far as costs etc.

i would personaly go straight for a S14. the money saved over the S15 goes straight into mods. i personly like the s14 sII over the s15 but like every nissan they get better as they get newer.

i think if you want somthing that spends more time on the track than in a shop or on jack stands a SR engine would be better. i know there is plenty of for and againsts for both engines but i just stink if you do the work on the car yourself the SR option is easier and cheaper and to me that means more track time. more track time equals more fun and better value for dolars.

but on the flip side a mildly modded r33 GTR will probably kick the pants of the s chassis times.

I thought this originally too but it seems a mildy modded S14/s15 seems to a do great job of taking it to RB powered cars, look at Ryan and his Sil80 for example. Once they both have the same sort of suspension mods and r compound tyres the gaps are pretty small, Silvia looks better for that reason cost wise but again I'm interested to hear from people running GT-R's.

yeh im bias, there is nothing wrong with a 33 gtst track day car.

'apparently' they are boats and that is why you see alot of 32's around.

i've had no problems with my gtst. evo's are too easy to drive, so i wouldnt consider one.

33 gtst will need minimum of:-

- 1.5 way diff

- 324mm rotors and caliper adapters (i would get 8 pot ksport upgrade tho)

The standard size rotor are just too small. As well as the normal power and supporting mods.

Just like any other import, there are heaps of parts around for them. As someone crashes one on the street

almost everyday of the week.

My pockets arent deep enough for a gtr. You dont see many gtr's at the track that have standard engines, the majority

of the gtst/gtt are still unopened though.

I think you've been at a DECA or two I've gone too, Silver R33? Anyhow, how would you cmopare your build and running costs to say someone running a Silvia or a GT-R. I now for one that the brakes you are talking about are worth way more than what I have on my Silvia and I can hammer on the brakes for a good 8 lap session and it only has S15 size slotted/vented rotors with S15 calipers, QFM pads, S15 master cylinderm and Motul 600 fluid. Pretty cheap upgrade in braking terms.

I guess what I'm getting at is I know the GT-R route will cost more per upgrade and likely for each service etc but does the performance justify the spend or is a Silvia 9/10ths of a equivalent GT-R's performance for 6-7/10ths of the price.

[sav man]

I raced my R32 GT-R at club sprints for years, only reason I stopped is because the car was too fast to race uncaged. Depends what your local tracks are like, I had to sped up on brakes cause my track is Symmons Plains. But with a R33 you can probably get away with std brakes +good pads, fluid , and rotors. If you can do your own work racing a GT-R isn't that expensive, but you have to keep the rebuild price of a RB26 in the back of your mind.

I loved that I could drive my 20 year old datson to the track with only upped turbo's, brakes, and semi's, and beat 997 Turbo's that had just come back from Fitzgerald Racing with a bill bigger than the purchase price, and all modifications of my car.

I think a R33 is the value for money pick on the GT-R's ATM, they are bloody cheap now, much more advanced electronics, stiffer chassis, and newer than a R32. With some mild mods it'd be faster that a S1x easy. And there has been many more SR20 falures than RB26 failues locally.

[No Crust Racing]

Sav I notice you have a 33 in yuor avatr, I think I've seen footage of you at Targa? Maybe spinning out?

I plan on doing as much of the work myself and am handy enough with a spanner to do all brake, suspension, electronic upgrades, and basic engine work/servicing, repairs etc. I can swap turbos and that sort of thing but would go to a shop to get a rebuild done or get any kind of custom work or fabbing done. So I can reduce costs in that way.

If you are runnign a 33, do you mind discussing your bills so far? Via PM if you prefer. And can the car run on the street also?

Thanks

[sav man]

I've got a R32 GT-R, The R33 in my avatar is Dad's car that we race in Targa. The costs of a R33 and R32 are pretty similar, i'll PM you some costs.

[No Crust Racing]

Broad question I know but how do you rate the GT-R performance against some of the similarly modded Silvia's you have come across?

Lap time wise..

Edited July 27, 2010 by ActionDan

[sav man]

My best at Symmons is a 60.9, and will run low 61's all day. The closest Silvia (S14A) is a 62.2, and it's a full race car on semis (only referencing netsoft), the silvia's that came to my club events were in the 65 to 70 sec lap range.

[No Crust Racing]

How heavily modded is your 32?

[sav man]

Not real heavy.

unopened 1989 engine, std injectors, std coilpacks

HKS GT2530's

Power FC

Oil Cooler

Full Exhaust

Big intercooler

Big Brakes

311rwkw

[ssxRicho]

UAS spacers are only $350, all you need then is some 324mm RDA rotors or something. That is a brake upgrade for around $500.

You could get away with the standard sized rotors with aggressive pads, but I found it to become annoying after a while and went

with the UAS spacers. I use A1RM as well. Brakes are good, though in saying that, im sure 8 pot ksport would be better

I've only got 210 at the rear wheels. I'm not sure what times youre doing around winton in the s13, but mine does 1.38's with

non r comp tyres (595rs). Still has the interior, sound crap, a/c, heating etc etc. Still looks, kinda (bonnet) like a road car.

Pickup a 33 for 8-9k then mod it as you go...you basically get something like my car for the price of a standard GTR.

In saying that, you could do the same to an s14.

[No Crust Racing]

Silvia is very slow as it's a learner car It'd be lucky to be making 130rwkw, has SR20 turbo, SAFC, cooler, boost, exhaust, but otherwise nothing else power wise. It's got coilovers and adjustable arms, all the brake stuff, a decent velo no interior behind the driver, no air con, gt spoiler, and semi slicks on some cheap volks, PB at present is only 1:43 but I've driven it at winton in it's current config maybe 2-3 times.

when I was at my John Bowe driver training day Luke Youlden said it was vey well balanced and showed me that in it's current config it has another few seconds in it when driven by someone who can steer, though he did like my heel toe braking (wank wank)

[ssxRicho]

i've grown (skill wise) with my car. upgraded as I felt; either something was shitting me; or i needed to gain time.

So there is no reason you cant do that with any of the cars that have been mentioned thus far.

I've had fun and am having fun with the 33. So if you did go down that route, you will be happy.

example is, running 8" rims all round on 235 rubber. could not go any faster (4-5 different days at winton), got some 9"

rims and 255 rubber on the back and knocked off 2 seconds straight up.