Gts25t Comparable To?

[senilykSkylines]

Hey ya,

There have been a couple of posts that I have found talking similarily about these topics but they often are comparing them to STI's etc which is interesting yet always seems to revert to "GTR all the way" and end up almost rubbishing the GTS25t...

I always find these topics fun and interesting especially since I am not the most knowledge car guy out there.

My cousin has a 400hp Subbie and says that their engines can be quite weak compared to Nissans so he has to keep it well tuned. Another guy I know with a 300rwkw Skyline recons that the RB straight 6 was stronger than the new V6 Skyline engines, something about the cams being longer and more flexable so therefore can take more power than say a V6 or four cylinder? if I get it right.

Opinions are interesting...

I own a GTS25t 1997 4 door. What is it comparable to, a WRX? (not STI), Toyota Supra non turbo?

I am sure that being rw drive would be an advantage over some in a way since it would lose less power through the drive shafts.

cheers guys....(and gals)

Edited July 26, 2010 by senilykSkylines

[tridentt150v]

comparable to an XR6 or a V6 commonwhore etc........in std trim.

when modded up and pumping out +220rwkw then its comparable to a 2000ish V8 from just about anyone [possibly excepting ferrari Lambo style]

at +250 it is comparable to a 2010 V8 from Falcon or Holden.

It is not really combarable to a GTR, evo or STi etc because they are 4wd, but they do cross paths now and then and it is all a question of driver skill/outright power/and application [drags/circuit/drift etc] as to which one is best.

Your really asking too much - and if you hang around here or search you will find plenty of skyline vs the rest type of threads with countless arguments about who is best and why.

Who really cares, only each individual owner, because on an open road sitting on 100km/h they are all the same........

[GTScotT]

Your cousin has a point about the subaru, but that is much the same with all motors when you push the limits of them. Tune is always crucial.

As for your mate with the cam shafts theory, I think he has some form of a decent theory in mind, yet basically that is bogus lol.

If you want to compare your car to others, consider your drive train, engine and weight mostly. Then you can start looking into motor vs motor, IE RB25 vs 1JZ. Same configuration, same size etc, different outcome. There is a lot in it.

FYI RWD is not the most efficient drivetrain, so dont praise its benefits too soon. Forums love to praise how much fwd sucks and how good rwd traction is, yet RWD skylines tend to wipe the floor with that whole traction theory.

[gwilkinson34]

when modded up and pumping out +220rwkw then its comparable to a 2000ish V8 from just about anyone [possibly excepting ferrari Lambo style]

at +250 it is comparable to a 2010 V8 from Falcon or Holden.

+250 more like comparable to 2010 HSV / XR6T / FPV.

Mate has a brand new VE SS and that thing is not even coming CLOSE to me with 273rwkw... 250+rwkw Skylines can manage mid-low 4s 0-100 times (with traction) but the latest Fords / Holdens are still 1s slower than that.

It's true though that in std trim the GTSTs and GTTs are not all that quick - but it doesn't take a whole lot to get them going.

[paulr33]

bog stock ECR33 is fairly mild in terms of power and won't really be able to outperform oodles of cars, but against N/A you should be fine and should be even or a touch slower than v8s

its only when you unlock the restrictions on the ECR33 that it really comes alive. take a stock ECR33 then drive a 200rwkw ECR33, massive difference

with 192rwkw i was able to get 0 to 100 in 4.8 which is pretty quick. but 200rwkw also cost me 10k so it's not a simple flick the boost switch and you get magic 200rwkw

with 192rwkw i have been able to beat almost anything on the street (on my private road). i think from memory only 1 or 2 vl's have really pulled away from me

[simpletool]

In terms of chassis the R33 GTST is showing it's age.

Engine wise a typical R33 RB25DET is usually modified at least slightly. Assuming some "common sense" the engine performance is usually quite good at around 230 to 240kw (and prob 380 to 400Nm) flywheel for a 1400kg car. With Nistune, AFM, injectors and medium turbo you'll get 300kw (500Nm) and it'll be comfortably quicker than any local V8. Then you'll discover just how far behind the chassis is (which can be fun as long as you have upgraded the typical suspension parts).

Stock they are barely quicker than average, and slower than a Golf GTi in anything but a sprint. I'd compare a stock R33 GTST to a BMW 330ci (just without the leather, badge, or stupid repair costs.). Pretty much the same situation with the current V37 Skyline.

Edited July 26, 2010 by simpletool

[senilykSkylines]

"bog stock ECR33 is fairly mild in terms of power and won't really be able to outperform oodles of cars, but against N/A you should be fine and should be even or a touch slower than v8s"

out perform or keep up with (as fast as)?

My mate has a WRX (not STI), could my R33 keep up with it on a rolling start? I would have thought so since both would sit on about 250hp stock, then again his is lighter. The skylines look a heck of a lot better than subies though I must say.

Thanks for the replies.

[Harey]

So comparable in a straight line race I assume, standing start or rolling start?

[Harey]

+250 more like comparable to 2010 HSV / XR6T / FPV.

Mate has a brand new VE SS and that thing is not even coming CLOSE to me with 273rwkw... 250+rwkw Skylines can manage mid-low 4s 0-100 times (with traction) but the latest Fords / Holdens are still 1s slower than that.

I think a well set up 250rwkw skyline would beat a 2010 HSV / XR6T / FPV pretty easily (assuming both get traction). They make roughly the same power but a skyline is a good 3-400kg lighter.

[simpletool]

"

My mate has a WRX (not STI), could my R33 keep up with it on a rolling start? I would have thought so since both would sit on about 250hp stock, then again his is lighter. The skylines look a heck of a lot better than subies though I must say

."

Probably not due to mid-range torque. Add full exhaust and free boost mod and you'll be sorted. See the Quick Reference Guide in the Forced Induction header. Ref Guide

Edited July 27, 2010 by simpletool

[SoFreshSoClean]

Dont forget your typical Commodore/Falcon V8 usually run the longest gear ratios in the world. I used to have a BA Fairmont, and that thing would do 90km/h in first gear.

I think if you changed diff gears in these cars it would be very interesting.

I think a stock Gts25t can be compared to an early LS1 Commodore in terms of performance. Both do 0-100 in around 6 seconds.

[senilykSkylines]

"."

Probably not due to mid-range torque. Add full exhaust and free boost mod and you'll be sorted. See the Quick Reference Guide in the Forced Induction header. Ref Guide

Why do the wrx's have better torque down low? Is the stock exhaust and low boost down low (hence needing to do the free boost mod) quite restrictive compared to wrx's.

[gwilkinson34]

I think a well set up 250rwkw skyline would beat a 2010 HSV / XR6T / FPV pretty easily (assuming both get traction). They make roughly the same power but a skyline is a good 3-400kg lighter.

Agreed vs the HSV / Ford V8s - no chance - but the 'problem' with the XR6Ts is they do 5.1s 0-100 stock and anyone with the same mindset as us is going to do boost / tune / exhaust and then they can make big power - so be more of a match for a well set up mid-high (270-330rwkw) Skyline IMO.

That will be my next car - still fast and room for the kids when they pop out...

[PM-R33]

A 250rwkw Skyline will flog a standard XR6T (my mate has a sedan), hell my mates standard turbo Supra pulls away from it. I've raced a 300+rwkw BA XR6T sedan and it was fairly even. They really aren't as fast as people make them out to be, they are fairly heavy and the utes have worse traction problems than Skylines have. But yeah, they do make good power very, very easily. But what do you expect from a 4L GT35?

That's one thing I really want to do to my car over the next few years is to setup up the suspension/tyre/diff combination for a hell of a lot more traction as to me this is the Achilles Heel to most GTSTs with power.

Edited July 27, 2010 by PM-R33

[paulr33]

the only time ive found traction an issue is when my diff has been stupid (active lsd and tired diff centre) and when the rears are bald

otherwise my traction has been pretty sweet and even with basic power 190rwkw i can take on basically anything on the street

i still have std shocks in my car but camber, castor, bushes, pineapple kit certianly helped get the power down and quickly

[PM-R33]

Yeah see my higher spring rates, not the best tyres and the ALSD acting up some times is to blame.

Hence I want to raise the front a bit more to trasnfer a bit more weight onto the rear wheels (at the moment it is still slightly pointed down in the front), get some semi decent tyres in a higher profile and I'm thinking about trying to rig up the ALSD to activate through a Vipec on TPS aswell as the wheel speed sensors; as in when TPS above 80% or so lock up the diff instead of waiting for it to break traction first. I'm really hoping this will help a lot more, kind of like your ALSD being activated on a switch to over ride it.

[Hanaldo]

Dont forget your typical Commodore/Falcon V8 usually run the longest gear ratios in the world. I used to have a BA Fairmont, and that thing would do 90km/h in first gear.

I think if you changed diff gears in these cars it would be very interesting.

Lol try an R31 Skyline diff, my mate has one with an RB25DET but stock R31 gearbox and diff and he can do 120kms/h in first.

[tridentt150v]

+250 more like comparable to 2010 HSV / XR6T / FPV.

Mate has a brand new VE SS and that thing is not even coming CLOSE to me with 273rwkw... 250+rwkw Skylines can manage mid-low 4s 0-100 times (with traction) but the latest Fords / Holdens are still 1s slower than that.

It's true though that in std trim the GTSTs and GTTs are not all that quick - but it doesn't take a whole lot to get them going.

yeah, I was actually thinking of the 305/317's when I was typing...point taken.

[paulr33]

yeah that should be fairly easy, all my switch does it flip the power wires via a relay and hard run the pump when its flipped

but the system has a pressure sensor on it and when a certain pressure is reached the system fails and A-LSD gives up (light on the dash) this means it wont ever run the pump again by itself until you reboot the car. driving with the pump running non-stop is Ok and no major issues that i've seen, but on my car it still single span even with pump %100 running. it seems to require a proper bleed and check of the system regulary to make it work. when you do that, it works awesome

[paulr33]

FYI i've ran against a 317 UTE on a private road upto 180km/h and neither of us could pull away

pretty sure it was a SS R8 Ute new model