Gtr Track Car Build

[Kaido_RR]

Hi,

some of you may already know that after a little incident at the track my gts-t track car is no more.

Well this time i have decided to do things alittle difference and looking for some input of some of my not so normal ideas

The plan is to go with an R33 GTR (got too much love for the r33 lol), still in 2 minds whether the car will be street rego or race/rally rego (im in perth), if i go down the race/rally rego i will need to get the car cam's log book and have the correct cams approve cage etc.

I'm also in two minds if i should go a gtr are not, as my initial idea/plan is to remove all the AWD (ATTESA), remove the gtr gbox and replace it with an rb25 gbox or Hollinger box (if money permits), remove all the front shafts, run a larger sump with baffles. Keep the GTR rear end.

Remove all the abs system and convert to R32 GTR Vspec 2 N1 master and lines (or even just r33 gts-t lines).

What are peoples opinion on this? My whole thinking behind this is i want to get the weight down alot! plus not really a big fan on AWD in a race car.

Is it worth doing all this work to gtr? or am i better off just starting with a gts-t and dropping a 26 into it?

Edited July 27, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Victory]

I have recently been down this exact path and finished up goung with a GTS-T shell.

If you are going to go 2WD then what benefit do you get from a GTR shell:

- wider front and rear guards that allow you to run a 10 inch wide rim with a 20 offset at both ends

- slight weight reduction from the aluminium front sheet metal

- some increased body stiffness from the additional factory bracing

- would there be any benefit from retaining the GTR front suspension now that it is 2WD? Would it be better (reduced unsprung weight etc) to install a GTS-T front cross member and GTS-T suspension.

GTS-T Option benefits:

- lower initial cost and availability

- most GTR components that you need are a straight bolt in

- you do not have to convert it from AWD to 2WD

What I am doing - initial build:

- RB25 with basic engine mods to deliver a reliable 250 kw with the option of a RB26 with 2WD sump in the future

- R33 GTR master cylinder and Brembo calipers with no ABS

- R33 GTR complete rear subframe and running gear

- full set of GTR body braces (under front rails, under floor at "B" piller, under rear cradle and in the boot)

If I decide to go down the GTR body path in the future I have a complete GTR front end (bonnet, guards, front bar, front reo etc) that I can simply bolt on to the GTS-T shell. I have rolled and pumped the rear guards but if I need more room in the back I can always put a pair of GTR rear quarters on in the future.

What we both seem to be attempting to achieve is to build a better 2WD car by combining the best GTR and GTS-T components.

[Roy]

If you are actually racing then do as much as you can to fit the regs. If its just a fun track car thn just get a GTR and punt the thing....or just re-shell your R33, i mean you can get a decent enough R33 that is registrered and 8k...3 weekends swapping over parts and you are back out there....

Thats my advice, because spending thousands of dollars building them and never driving them is a different type of fun...but its far better to be out there every 2nd weekend driving the thing at the track, rather then forever finishing the monster that you started but cant finish quckly

[R31Nismoid]

Buying a GTR and ripping everything that makes it a GTR out... serves no purpose.

No point having a GTR without AWD, that is where it's advantage is.

As Bris said, just get another GTS-T if that is the case.

[Kaido_RR]

If you are actually racing then do as much as you can to fit the regs. If its just a fun track car thn just get a GTR and punt the thing....or just re-shell your R33, i mean you can get a decent enough R33 that is registrered and 8k...3 weekends swapping over parts and you are back out there....

Thats my advice, because spending thousands of dollars building them and never driving them is a different type of fun...but its far better to be out there every 2nd weekend driving the thing at the track, rather then forever finishing the monster that you started but cant finish quckly

Still not 100% if i want to go full DOOR2DOOR racing, as i don't really have the cash to be out there every weekend mixing it up with the big boys. However the speed series i plan to enter has an Open Class, so its pretty much a free for all, even if i was to go the gts-t path i would still be in the open class.

Re-shelling the R33 is out of the question, as i have already sold most of the gear from the car lol

I know building i car is going to be slow and i won't be racing for along time but for some reason i have this real argue to do it, as i really want to see what i can achieve doing 90% of the car myself.

I have recently been down this exact path and finished up goung with a GTS-T shell.

If you are going to go 2WD then what benefit do you get from a GTR shell:

- wider front and rear guards that allow you to run a 10 inch wide rim with a 20 offset at both ends

- slight weight reduction from the aluminium front sheet metal

- some increased body stiffness from the additional factory bracing

- would there be any benefit from retaining the GTR front suspension now that it is 2WD? Would it be better (reduced unsprung weight etc) to install a GTS-T front cross member and GTS-T suspension.

GTS-T Option benefits:

- lower initial cost and availability

- most GTR components that you need are a straight bolt in

- you do not have to convert it from AWD to 2WD

What I am doing - initial build:

- RB25 with basic engine mods to deliver a reliable 250 kw with the option of a RB26 with 2WD sump in the future

- R33 GTR master cylinder and Brembo calipers with no ABS

- R33 GTR complete rear subframe and running gear

- full set of GTR body braces (under front rails, under floor at "B" piller, under rear cradle and in the boot)

If I decide to go down the GTR body path in the future I have a complete GTR front end (bonnet, guards, front bar, front reo etc) that I can simply bolt on to the GTS-T shell. I have rolled and pumped the rear guards but if I need more room in the back I can always put a pair of GTR rear quarters on in the future.

What we both seem to be attempting to achieve is to build a better 2WD car by combining the best GTR and GTS-T components.

Sounds like it

good point out the front suspension, i will have to look into that however, i find that the gtr has more aftermarket suspension gear available off the shelf in japan which makes me want to stay with the gtr front suspension.

Power Wise im looking around the same Level 350hp-400hp i really want to focuses of building a light car with good aero aids. Australia seems to have limited development of aero-aids in the motorsport world, so i really want to have a play around in this area and also the car may be used as a base for my Engineering Thesis

[Kaido_RR]

Buying a GTR and ripping everything that makes it a GTR out... serves no purpose.

No point having a GTR without AWD, that is where it's advantage is.

As Bris said, just get another GTS-T if that is the case.

Chassis wise is there any differences between the gtr and gts-t?

I think also why i want to use the GTR as a base, as i find the suspension setup to be more favourable to the aftermarket market. there was pretty much only 2-3 opinions when it came to good suspension components for the gts-t, while i have found alot more for the gtr. Also the wider body is a huge plus as i would ideally like to run in the 275+ tyre size, and along with the aluminium panels will help to drop the weight

Edited July 27, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Roy]

By the time you put a cage in the difference would be 9/10s of a bee's d1ck.

I think your first decision is what sort of build are you going to pursue? Light weight or mid weight with gung ho power?

To me light weight means sub 1000kgs. Is that what you are thinking? To get a Skyline under that weight you would be doing very well. May be easier to stick with around 1300kgs full loaded with driver and fluids and chase a bit more hp., say 450-500rwhp

[bigmikespec]

If you wanted it to be really light maybe 1200kg is possible and moderate power i.e. 350-400hp I would go with an R32 GTS-t.

[phunky_monkey]

Thats my advice, because spending thousands of dollars building them and never driving them is a different type of fun...but its far better to be out there every 2nd weekend driving the thing at the track, rather then forever finishing the monster that you started but cant finish quckly

Wiser words have never been spoken!

[Ant97GTR]

Buying a GTR and ripping everything that makes it a GTR out... serves no purpose.

No point having a GTR without AWD, that is where it's advantage is.

I agree with the above...no point buying a GTR if you are going to rip out the awd. If rwd is the way you want to go buy a gtst and spend the coin you'll save on lightening and stiffening it. I am of the belief that the 33 GTR has way more chassis stiffening bits on it than the 33 gtst but it is nothing you can't add to the gtst chassis.

[No Crust Racing]

Subscribed just because my head is in a similar spot as to what to head forward with.

Proceed...

[Kaido_RR]

By the time you put a cage in the difference would be 9/10s of a bee's d1ck.

I think your first decision is what sort of build are you going to pursue? Light weight or mid weight with gung ho power?

To me light weight means sub 1000kgs. Is that what you are thinking? To get a Skyline under that weight you would be doing very well. May be easier to stick with around 1300kgs full loaded with driver and fluids and chase a bit more hp., say 450-500rwhp

Goal weight is 1200kg full loaded.

Hp aim is between 400-500hp at the engine.

I'm looking to remove everything that is not needed, to redo the wiring loom to only what is needed. completely remove the dash and make a custom on using cf or al.

depending what i do with the roll cage i may go down the fiberglass or cf door path. All glass will be replaced with lexan/perspex. Will get the drive side one custom made with alittle window in it like this

So i can remove all the bs in the door.

I see everyone point that regarding the awd and the gtr.... hmmm maybe i might just start with it and see what i can get weight wise and if im not happy then rip it out

[Rowdyr32]

I'd buy a partly stripped silvia/180sx for $1500-2500 and put all your gear into it. Heaps of a/m parts for them becuase all the skid kids crash them and can't keep the wreck at mum and dads.

I have never seen a super quick r32, r33 or 34 gtst hear in Vic. A modded track Datsun 1600 has run quicker than them all by a fair few seconds.

A silvia will weigh less than a skyline by a fair wack. The 25 and box should go in without to many drama's. It will save you fortune not having to waste all these weekends and cash trying to save weight and make custom gears because it already weighs less. The 33's brakes should be fine on it for the start. Your diff centre might fit if you have one. No need for a dog box if the car weighs as little as this and with only 500hp.

Should by a guess have it weigh 1100kg or less with cage?

No matter how much money you spend and time you put into a GTST a pretty std GTR with a bit over 300rwkw will kill it around a track with ease and will still be street driven.

Sticking with a r33 because u like them seems a waste of time if going quick is you goal. Its either one or ther other and if I was going to spend all this time building a quick car I'd want the quickest car for the dollars.

After saying all this I bought a 32 GTR with forged pistons, tripple plate clutch, diff, turbos's etc for $20k 5 years ago because I wanted the best bang for buck and street reg'd. Nothing mechanically has broken yet and it was the quickest/strongest car I could get for the money at the time and prob still is now. I was a RWD guy before it.

[Roy]

No matter how much money you spend and time you put into a GTST a pretty std GTR with a bit over 300rwkw will kill it around a track with ease and will still be street driven.

Sorry Riverdance, but I fail to see where in this vid the 300kw GTR is killing the 220kw GTSt

They are lapping around the 1:35.5-1:35.1 mark. Thats only 1.6 seconds off the 350rwkws, modded transfer case, uber brake and suspension full weight GTRs in Vic!

The GTSt is nothing all that special. Just well put together and well driven. It has off the shelf used Tein REs, a diff and a 2530 with the usual filter and exhaust mods. I think the GTSt may have some 256 Toei cams...but still only has 230rwkws at 1.5bar and using R34 GTT brakes

[Marlin]

Gtr's are seriously overated circuit cars. They have So many foibles, so I'd stick with a gtst, and f**k it, chuck a sequential hollinger in it, don't overpower it, get it light, and enjoy wiping smiles off there faces.

[benm]

I'd buy the newest EVO you can afford and throw some semi-slick tyres on it, less hassle than a GTR.

But then I have no idea...

[phunky_monkey]

Let's not forget Adam's car either. It's already quicker than most GT-R's and will only get quicker.

It's by no means a lightly modded car, but shows what potential there is with the 32 gts-t chassis.

[No Crust Racing]

To be fair Dane, I think any car modded to Adam's level with that sort of budget would be very fast and the difference would likely e driver based. You can't just buy his driving skill.

[phunky_monkey]

Yeah, but nobody is talking about driving skill, it's more about the potential of the car. If you're a dud driver and don't improve then that's not a reflection on the car.

The car can only be judged at it's full potential in my opinion as we are generally the weakest links! Of course how controllable and the sort of information the car feeds back to you can have a direct effect on your ability to control it and improve as a driver. Adam is a great driver but if you had good tuition there's no treason why you couldn't punt the car around that quickly. You can't say an F1 car is not quick because us mere mortals may not be able to drive it as it's meant to be driven!

I know that my car will have more ability than I do, hell my STi has more ability than I do, but I can always improve and hopefully bring myself up to the level to maximise the potential of the car. It all takes time

[No Crust Racing]

sorry what I meant was that a GT-R built to similar specs with the same budget as Adam's car would be equally as fast. The lap time diff would then be driver based rather than Gtst vs GT-R, at that point of development, both cars cost a bomb and go like stink.