Gtr Track Car Build

[Kaido_RR]

I'd buy the newest EVO you can afford and throw some semi-slick tyres on it, less hassle than a GTR.

But then I have no idea...

i know i should go an evo... but i just don't like them and not a huge fan on awd in a race car.

here in perth there is a stripped out evo running a 2.3l std turbo and E85 making around the 350hp mark and is seriously quick car given the driver knows what he is doing. i think the closes gtr is still 2-3seconds off his quickest time

Gtr's are seriously overated circuit cars. They have So many foibles, so I'd stick with a gtst, and f**k it, chuck a sequential hollinger in it, don't overpower it, get it light, and enjoy wiping smiles off there faces.

My last track car was an r33 gts-t however i put it into a wall lol...

Even with the limit time i had setting it up and track time i was pretty much on pare "time wise" with gtr with similar power. i must admit though my engine was seriously tied and it was pretty much a given that the engine was going to let go sooner rather than later.

I just feel i will be pushing shit uphill if i go the gtst again, as i want an rb26, the wideness of the gtr and the suspension setup also.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Rowdyr32]

Sorry Riverdance, but I fail to see where in this vid the 300kw GTR is killing the 220kw GTSt

They are lapping around the 1:35.5-1:35.1 mark. Thats only 1.6 seconds off the 350rwkws, modded transfer case, uber brake and suspension full weight GTRs in Vic!

The GTSt is nothing all that special. Just well put together and well driven. It has off the shelf used Tein REs, a diff and a 2530 with the usual filter and exhaust mods. I think the GTSt may have some 256 Toei cams...but still only has 230rwkws at 1.5bar and using R34 GTT brakes

As for the quick gtr's you are comparing to being only just quicker than the gtst the gtr's aren't made to corner? Prob why they never brag about Winton times. Its not a drag strip.

To be fair Ant was prob lapping 2 seconds off the potential of his setup due to his mods even if he had average tyres when at Sandown so prob the same at Winton. Like you said you have prob guessed Ants mods with full Racepace susp, good quality parts in brembo's, semi's, 270-280rwkw. We were the same speed down the straights a while ago and I have 280rwkw so power is guessed.

I think Ant is a bit like Jack, Gadg, Ferni for example and will work into his grove and when he feels comforable will progress and punch some good times for thier setups.

Russ has been pushing his car in a similar setup for a lot of track time now so he should be going the times he is and he is def more agressive. Watching him catch turn one at EC confirms this.

Its all confidence and practice. Watching the video the gtr isn't getting pushed to hard.

The cars all have the potential to go faster they just need to be dialed in and driven hard. Ant said his alignment sheet had that the rear wheels were toed in? Every bit of info I have colated of the really quick 32 gtr's say you should run toe out on the rear. Do Racepace make their setups safe and smooth feeling fo their customers? Compromise? I haven't seen any vids where Racepace cars are nimble and twitchy like watching race cars on TV or youtube.

That makes my car which only has the old 32N1 RE tune now on the -5's with laggy 280rwkw, Full boost 5k, RDA rotors, ebc front pads and std $15pads rear, and suspension with a DIY alignment look ok with a 1.23 Sandown on streets and if I had time to push for another session def would have been in the high1.22's. If I with some practice and a few alignment changes and proper brake pad combination, better power graph with same power should run a low 1.22. That should be about right for my gtr and the lighter gtst's on streets can get down to a say a low 1.24 mid 1.23 at Sandown. Where will that put my gtr times if it got semi's for a not expensively modded gtr? It has had all the same mods that a gtst would require done to it and thats all. General track setup. I'm still quicker than any street tyred gtst at Sandown. They are very close though so I won't pipe up to much. They'll be there soon.

So I whould be happy to say a gtr with a the same mods as a gtst with slightly more power to offset the weight GTR 1500kg/280rwkw=5.35 but has 4wd drivetrain loss also to subtract

GTST 1350kg/230rwkw=5.86

The gtr would still lap 1 - 2 seconds faster with experianced club (still average in race driver terms) drivers. Gtr def takes less skill to drive quick but is the same as a gtst if you want to push them to the limit. You need to know how to drive a car. Most of the people out there don't have the skill or aggressiveness to get there lowest time out of the car. I know I don't have that bit extra!

What are your opinions?

[Russman]

Someone give me the keys to a 280kw club spec GTR and I'll tell you which one is more fun.

[JAGR33]

Interesting conversation here, many valid points.

Roy - there is no doubt Russ in the little GTS-T is punching out some insane times, very impressive and obviously comes down to weight, power and skill. This would have to be the fastest GTS-T at the moment (besides Adam's). However this means he is still 4 seconds slower than Frank's R33 GT-R in full street trim (bugger all weight saving), no cage that is street registered and gets driven to and from the track with the sub pumping. Not 1.6 secs as you specified. Not stirring the pot but let's compare apples with apples. And RowdyR32 is correct, the GTR's lardness does not help it get around Winton, it is suited more towards the EVO/WRX lighter cars that don't need mega power.

So what would be the best solution? Unfortunately a mildly modified GT-R will always be quicker than a mildly modified GTS-T. The only GTS-T that has come close to some of the quickest STREET registered GTR's would have to be Adam's 32. And that is NOT mildly modified.

Must say that it's good to see the GTS-t's going so quick, 2 years ago when I used to race the GTST's were nowhere near the top of the timing boards, except once when there was a little silver 32 GTST that surprised us with some very respectful times before it dissapeared and has never been seen since.

And as for RowdyR32, till this day it baffles me the times he had achieved, big dollar mods? Hardly. Skill and commitment? Highly likely. Very impressive.

I would have been happy to give Winton another few goes before I retired, as it I had only done 2 timed sprints there. I'd say there's quite a bit more in it.

Anyway, enough of my rambling, just thought I'd put my 2c worth, and to the boys in the GTS-t's, KEEP CHIPPING AWAY AT THOSE TIMES!!

[Roy]

Yes Jack , but i think the difference between the likes fo Franks and Aarons cars are ...that whilst resgistered and daily drivers, everything else about them is a race car. To me a race car is a car with all the components. It is not a race car simply because it has no back seat and a half or full cage.

Yes Adams car is heavily modified on all fronts, it still has only had two runs a Sandown and Winton....will be itneresting how mcuh quicker it can go. Bt getting back to your car, Frank ad Aarons cars. They can be daily driven , but lets look at what has been done to them all whilst keeping the interior in them. Brake setups close to V8 Supercar sizes worth +8k with brands like Alcon, AP and Harrop. Engines that build, ancillaries and turbos are 30-50k packages. Suspension setups that including arms, swaybars and shocks would be between 6-8k. Radiators and oil coolers worth 2k. Then you have the aftermarket front and rear diffs, modified transfer case and good twin plate clutches, all to the approx value of 10k as well.

Then they have carbon fibre bonnet, some race seats for harnesses. So all that is left for these cars is to have 20hours spent removing the interior and air con. Then 3-5k adding weight (hurting performance but adding some back with stiffness) with a cage and then all of a sudden it has gone from being a road car to a race car.

So my thinking is more swayed by the parts, labour and money that has been put into a car, not whether the owner has removed the air con condenser and back seat.

But...whilst i am an advocate for for rwd, I marvel at how amazing your and some other GTRs are on the street and their turn of speed at the track. Frank using soft semis which i understand his car could neer get close to those times on regular RE55s. Ditto his times at PI. So not really 4 seconds off on the same compund of tyre, more like perhaps 2.5?!?! Not important, just a consideration.

And yes, comparing times has always got to be taken with a grain of salt. Tracks like Winton and PI mean that the rwd crews can run a little closer to the big GTRs in Vic, where Calder and Sandown where if you have a 10-11 sec GTR you are going to be getting down those straights pretty well, all from a low speed corner onto the straight.

It pains me that Matt never got a proper run in his R34 GTT, it had the makings of a very quick car...but it seems he ran ot of patience with it just as it was about to start to hunt down good times

[R31Nismoid]

Wait till you see the latest addition to Adam's car Bris - you'll cream your jocks

[JAGR33]

Yes Jack , but i think the difference between the likes fo Franks and Aarons cars are ...that whilst resgistered and daily drivers, everything else about them is a race car. To me a race car is a car with all the components. It is not a race car simply because it has no back seat and a half or full cage.

Yes Adams car is heavily modified on all fronts, it still has only had two runs a Sandown and Winton....will be itneresting how mcuh quicker it can go. Bt getting back to your car, Frank ad Aarons cars. They can be daily driven , but lets look at what has been done to them all whilst keeping the interior in them. Brake setups close to V8 Supercar sizes worth +8k with brands like Alcon, AP and Harrop. Engines that build, ancillaries and turbos are 30-50k packages. Suspension setups that including arms, swaybars and shocks would be between 6-8k. Radiators and oil coolers worth 2k. Then you have the aftermarket front and rear diffs, modified transfer case and good twin plate clutches, all to the approx value of 10k as well.

Then they have carbon fibre bonnet, some race seats for harnesses. So all that is left for these cars is to have 20hours spent removing the interior and air con. Then 3-5k adding weight (hurting performance but adding some back with stiffness) with a cage and then all of a sudden it has gone from being a road car to a race car.

So my thinking is more swayed by the parts, labour and money that has been put into a car, not whether the owner has removed the air con condenser and back seat.

But...whilst i am an advocate for for rwd, I marvel at how amazing your and some other GTRs are on the street and their turn of speed at the track. Frank using soft semis which i understand his car could neer get close to those times on regular RE55s. Ditto his times at PI. So not really 4 seconds off on the same compund of tyre, more like perhaps 2.5?!?! Not important, just a consideration.

And yes, comparing times has always got to be taken with a grain of salt. Tracks like Winton and PI mean that the rwd crews can run a little closer to the big GTRs in Vic, where Calder and Sandown where if you have a 10-11 sec GTR you are going to be getting down those straights pretty well, all from a low speed corner onto the straight.

It pains me that Matt never got a proper run in his R34 GTT, it had the makings of a very quick car...but it seems he ran ot of patience with it just as it was about to start to hunt down good times

I see your point, but I must say I don't totally agree with your first couple of sentences. Although having some of the 'race' components a race car is stripped to the max to get rid of unwanted weight. This means all the luxuries we drive around in be non existent. They are loud and would drive anyone crazy driving them without a helmet for a long period of time. Frank's and Aaron's cars could be driven to Sydney and back without wanting to leave it on the side of the road due to it being annoying.

But everything else I totally agree with, these cars have mega dollars spent on them to get them to perform the way they do. I guess a fairer comparison would be Newton's car, definetly no expense spared there. Hoping this weekend it gets a good run with weather, it's going to be bullshit fast...

So when is all this shit talk of your car going to stop and will we finally see it punch out a time????

[Kaido_RR]

some very interesting points been raise!

making my decision more and more harder.

here in perth there is really only one track Barbagallo Raceway

however i will be planning on entering the LE Performance Speed Event Series which is mainly hill climbs and tight bits. Results from last year show pretty much a dominates by the evo and wrx.

I know im most likely going to get shit for it but im thinking the RWD GTR opinion is the go! i might go down the path of stripping the car with the awd system and seeing what i can get it down to weight wise and if im not happy then take out the awd system.

Oh and for me there won't be a MEGA budget! Which maybe makes the GTR track car build not the best idea

Edited July 29, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Roy]

But everything else I totally agree with, these cars have mega dollars spent on them to get them to perform the way they do. I guess a fairer comparison would be Newton's car, definetly no expense spared there. Hoping this weekend it gets a good run with weather, it's going to be bullshit fast...

So when is all this shit talk of your car going to stop and will we finally see it punch out a time????

Will be keeping my phone close by. I was meant to be there watching but my flight back to Aus now has a detour via Singapore to fix a fark up...so another case of work 1st, Roy 2nd Who knows when my car gets back on the track. Now that I have to go to SIngapore for a few days i may not get to track my car this year It will be close to finished by 16th August, lol if you want to take it for a punt you are welcome to. 2 reasons, i trust you more then most and curious to hear your thoughts after driving a basic R32 GTSt with bolt on mods. And trust me Jack, nobody is more frustrated then me that I have wasted all this money on my car the past 2 years and I still am not in a position to drive it and have fun. It pains me to see Russ, Ryan and co all out going quicker and I am not involved in the fun. Finally there is a car other then Matt to play with and I am not around. I get annoyed seeing poor Dane going through the same thing, only worse

Re what is a race car....its different things to different people. Based on noise and comfort side of things. If i took Tom_g's GTSt, ripped the interior out of it, air con, only had a drivers seat and no dash, JFK style and put a half cage in it for $700. Would it be a race car considering it has 130rwks with std turbo, and cat back exhaust with std ECU? Small distinction and is a definition thing more then anything...but I suppose we are talking about slightly different things which is why we have different opinions.

If you buy a GTR and rip the front end out of it I think you need your head read. Maybe if you buy a GTR shell and you build it up with a GTS25t wreck.

[Kaido_RR]

If you buy a GTR and rip the front end out of it I think you need your head read. Maybe if you buy a GTR shell and you build it up with a GTS25t wreck.

lol, sounds about on par, i never like to do things the normal way

[Marlin]

If you buy a GTR and rip the front end out of it I think you need your head read.

This man speaks the truth.

[Russman]

Only thing that stops my car from being in the same catagory as Aaron, Jack, Ant's GTRs is back seats and Air con (for now).

I could drive it around on the street if I wanted to.

Also I have Nissan Calipers, $125 pads, skinnier tyres, non racepace susp.

[R31Nismoid]

I see your point, but I must say I don't totally agree with your first couple of sentences. Although having some of the 'race' components a race car is stripped to the max to get rid of unwanted weight. This means all the luxuries we drive around in be non existent. They are loud and would drive anyone crazy driving them without a helmet for a long period of time. Frank's and Aaron's cars could be driven to Sydney and back without wanting to leave it on the side of the road due to it being annoying.

But everything else I totally agree with, these cars have mega dollars spent on them to get them to perform the way they do. I guess a fairer comparison would be Newton's car, definetly no expense spared there. Hoping this weekend it gets a good run with weather, it's going to be bullshit fast...

So when is all this shit talk of your car going to stop and will we finally see it punch out a time????

You'd wanna be able to drive to Syd & back if you've spend around 100k

They are two ends though. The budget weekend track car or the no expense spared track car that doubles as a daily

You going this w/e? Im thinking i might actually.

I wanna see the new addition to Big Red in action!

[R31Nismoid]

I know im most likely going to get shit for it but im thinking the RWD GTR opinion is the go! i might go down the path of stripping the car with the awd system and seeing what i can get it down to weight wise and if im not happy then take out the awd system.

Oh and for me there won't be a MEGA budget! Which maybe makes the GTR track car build not the best idea

If you do go GTR - I know of someone with a rolling R33 shell (just the motor missing) that will be for sale soon around 8-9k

Body isn't the best & interior... but meh it's a race car. You are throwing half the sh|t away.

[JAGR33]

Only thing that stops my car from being in the same catagory as Aaron, Jack, Ant's GTRs is back seats and Air con (for now).

I could drive it around on the street if I wanted to.

Also I have Nissan Calipers, $125 pads, skinnier tyres, non racepace susp.

All the reason why your times are so impressive!!!! You should be stoked considering the money spent on your car and what it has achieved. The problem with GTR's is their weight. If you were to add 400kg's to your car what times do you think it would be capable of then? To get back to your quickest times you would have to spend big dollars on brakes/power/suspension/fatter tyres etc....

The reason why my car has put out the times it has is definetly not due to driver skill and experience. It's so easy to drive fast around the track due to the money that's been thrown at it. I'd say throw someone like Newton in it and there's another second or two at any track.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if the weight pulled out of the car has such a minimal advantage then why take it out in the first place? I know if I were building a dedicated track day I would throw everything that's not needed in the bin, it's the cheapest modification available.

Anyway, you RWD GTS-T guys shouldn't take offence to my comments, I know what is required to go very quick around a track and I take my hat off to all of you, I would be the first to admit that driving a RWD car is a different kettle of fish and requires more skill than punting around a GT-R...

Peace..

[Roy]

Jack, nobody does a teen without talent and confidence behind the wheel. Your fast because you are smooth!

[JAGR33]

Jack, nobody does a teen without talent and confidence behind the wheel. Your fast because you are smooth!

Just to elaborate on this Roy's talking about Sandown times, I do not have sex with teenagers!

It's the car that brings out the confidence, I guess I'm smooth due to driving a truck 10-12 hours a day?!

What I'm getting at is it requires less talent compared to driving a rwd car at that sort of level.

[Russman]

Just to elaborate on this Roy's talking about Sandown times, I do not have sex with teenagers!

I don't take offense with anything that has been said mate. I'm just supporting team underdog!

Both GTR's and GTSt's are capable of being made quick on a budget. I just think it's easier and maybe a bit cheaper with a RWD platform.

And Jack. Why retire?

[Kaido_RR]

I don't take offense with anything that has been said mate. I'm just supporting team underdog!

Both GTR's and GTSt's are capable of being made quick on a budget. I just think it's easier and maybe a bit cheaper with a RWD platform.

And Jack. Why retire?

so admit i love my gts-t track shitter, it was epic fun to drive! grip well but love to go sliding so i had the best of both worlds (but was starting to find out how much cheaper grip racing is compare to drifting )

Kind of sad it ended so soon

was awesome fun even if i had like 1mm left on my front pads and didn't have a tune yet lol

lol i love watching my oil pressure gauge... goes like a yoyo

Edited July 30, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[JAGR33]

I don't take offense with anything that has been said mate. I'm just supporting team underdog!

Both GTR's and GTSt's are capable of being made quick on a budget. I just think it's easier and maybe a bit cheaper with a RWD platform.

And Jack. Why retire?

All good mate, keep up the good work.

Unfortunately having a child, working 6 days a week and about to start building my dream home there is no more time (and money!) left for the GT-R. I know it sucks especially when for about 2 years I did around 30 track days. The car now is in storage under a cover, and contemplating selling due to only doing 500kms of street driving in the last 2 years.

Maybe in another 2 years time once the dust has settled I might have the time (and the money!) to dust it off and let loose again, I feel I have unfinished business with Winton and PI.

For now will just sit back and watch everyone else have some fun, with Roy!!!

Or maybe I should just take up Roy's offer and take his car for a drive, although I don't think I'd be driving it to it's potential...