Upgrade Rb 20 Or Put Rb 25 Or 26 Into My R32 Gts-t?

[limpus]

^^^ If you're calling a rb20 a turd then you have no idea...lots of guys here running 20s "hung" with 25s on more than one occasion in several different scenarios from track to drag...better put on your flame suit before the fanatics catch wind of this...

For the record...i'm not one of those fanatics...but building an rb20 is not a waste of time...it just boils down to what you want to achieve...since you have a 25 in yours...good for you...but its not the only way to go...

[EdGTR]

Every one has a different idea about mods which is great but i think it really comes down to how you want the car to drive and how much you want to spend. Also as everyone says the amount of power you think you want the first time is never enough once you get used to.

So yes the 20 can do it but it will cost quite a bit as there will be quite alot of parts to replace and when you are done it will be doughy down low but a real screamer up top, Which can be cool but if you get bored of the power it will start getting expensive and lag will be getting a bit on the wild side for much more power.

A 25 will need less parts put on the engine to do the same and due to the extra cc's will make more torque but will be the wrong engine for the car so if it came down to laws where you are could mean extra stuffing around. BUT if and when you want more it is quite easily done.

The 26 only being more capacity by like 65 mls or somthing you cant say that the extra capacity will make any difference but in my oppinion they drive so well that if you can get a package that includes all the gear like front mount and all the inlet and exhaust, it would make the power you are after with almost no mods at all. they are really smooth have plenty of mid range and the possibility for future mods is huge. BUT and this is the good one apart from the legality again you will need to get a different sump because all gtr's have a diff in the sump which will not fit in your car. The gear box will take quite alot of modifying or just go a 25 box and if you get a cheap one watch out for the ceramic wheels falling off which can damage the engine badly (mine did and did).

I would do a full stock install of a 26 with all the 26 bits like cooler and twin turbos and put a set of hks gtss turbos or -7s for less money and a power fc and tune it for about 15 psi and keep it safe for the stock injectors and afms. you should get a very safe lasting 250kw at the wheels. In a car that is a few hundred kgs less than a gtr that would keep you happy for quite a while and see off most gtts. You had better save for tires though. Or it and you might not last.

[toffy]

Every one has a different idea about mods which is great but i think it really comes down to how you want the car to drive and how much you want to spend. Also as everyone says the amount of power you think you want the first time is never enough once you get used to.

So yes the 20 can do it but it will cost quite a bit as there will be quite alot of parts to replace and when you are done it will be doughy down low but a real screamer up top, Which can be cool but if you get bored of the power it will start getting expensive and lag will be getting a bit on the wild side for much more power.

A 25 will need less parts put on the engine to do the same and due to the extra cc's will make more torque but will be the wrong engine for the car so if it came down to laws where you are could mean extra stuffing around. BUT if and when you want more it is quite easily done.

The 26 only being more capacity by like 65 mls or somthing you cant say that the extra capacity will make any difference but in my oppinion they drive so well that if you can get a package that includes all the gear like front mount and all the inlet and exhaust, it would make the power you are after with almost no mods at all. they are really smooth have plenty of mid range and the possibility for future mods is huge. BUT and this is the good one apart from the legality again you will need to get a different sump because all gtr's have a diff in the sump which will not fit in your car. The gear box will take quite alot of modifying or just go a 25 box and if you get a cheap one watch out for the ceramic wheels falling off which can damage the engine badly (mine did and did).

I would do a full stock install of a 26 with all the 26 bits like cooler and twin turbos and put a set of hks gtss turbos or -7s for less money and a power fc and tune it for about 15 psi and keep it safe for the stock injectors and afms. you should get a very safe lasting 250kw at the wheels. In a car that is a few hundred kgs less than a gtr that would keep you happy for quite a while and see off most gtts. You had better save for tires though. Or it and you might not last.

I concur , rb26 imo will end up costing similar money for 250rwk to a rb25

[Nee-san]

Every one has a different idea about mods which is great but i think it really comes down to how you want the car to drive and how much you want to spend. Also as everyone says the amount of power you think you want the first time is never enough once you get used to.

So yes the 20 can do it but it will cost quite a bit as there will be quite alot of parts to replace and when you are done it will be doughy down low but a real screamer up top, Which can be cool but if you get bored of the power it will start getting expensive and lag will be getting a bit on the wild side for much more power.

A 25 will need less parts put on the engine to do the same and due to the extra cc's will make more torque but will be the wrong engine for the car so if it came down to laws where you are could mean extra stuffing around. BUT if and when you want more it is quite easily done.

The 26 only being more capacity by like 65 mls or somthing you cant say that the extra capacity will make any difference but in my oppinion they drive so well that if you can get a package that includes all the gear like front mount and all the inlet and exhaust, it would make the power you are after with almost no mods at all. they are really smooth have plenty of mid range and the possibility for future mods is huge. BUT and this is the good one apart from the legality again you will need to get a different sump because all gtr's have a diff in the sump which will not fit in your car. The gear box will take quite alot of modifying or just go a 25 box and if you get a cheap one watch out for the ceramic wheels falling off which can damage the engine badly (mine did and did).

I would do a full stock install of a 26 with all the 26 bits like cooler and twin turbos and put a set of hks gtss turbos or -7s for less money and a power fc and tune it for about 15 psi and keep it safe for the stock injectors and afms. you should get a very safe lasting 250kw at the wheels. In a car that is a few hundred kgs less than a gtr that would keep you happy for quite a while and see off most gtts. You had better save for tires though. Or it and you might not last.

That's pretty much it.

Keep it relatively standard plus a few minor mods and enjoy up towards 300rwkw

Given the light weight of a 32 Gts-t if you have traction, not alot will chop you.

[discopotato03]

I once thought about the larger engine in an R32 GTST scenario and ended up with what I reckon is the simpler solution .

Nissan put an RB25DET and the big box and larger brakes etc etc into the GTS25T's and I reckon its far cheaper and easier to buy one than create one .

There's nothing stopping you buying an R33 and selling the R32 , update to a later car with more resale value and more of what you want out of the box .

The effort to rip half the drive train out of an R32 and trying to get something back for the donk and box is considerable .

The R33 with reasonably straightforward bolt ons/plug ins gets you where you want to be .

A .

[bubba]

I once thought about the larger engine in an R32 GTST scenario and ended up with what I reckon is the simpler solution .

Nissan put an RB25DET and the big box and larger brakes etc etc into the GTS25T's and I reckon its far cheaper and easier to buy one than create one .

There's nothing stopping you buying an R33 and selling the R32 , update to a later car with more resale value and more of what you want out of the box .

The effort to rip half the drive train out of an R32 and trying to get something back for the donk and box is considerable .

The R33 with reasonably straightforward bolt ons/plug ins gets you where you want to be .

A .

Valid point but some people just prefer R32's (me for instance) and at the end of the day, I'd prefer everything I've done in the R32 gtst chassis over the R33 chassis.

If you're buying and modifying a Skyline with resale in mind, you're kidding yourself.

Edited August 4, 2010 by bubba

[discopotato03]

I just wanted the most direct path to the end result , if you like doing engine and gearbox changes plus the wiring etc for kicks go for it . Then the diff ratios wrong and the brakes are getting so so etc etc .

Often when you go to sell a car the age of the thing has a say in the zeros , the R32s are getting long in the tooth now and everything original has to be getting a bit tired . R33s had lots of updates over the R32s and while they are a bit larger and heavier the bigger engine and beefier drive train makes up for that IMO .

To each their own , A .

[Spurdo]

each to their own exactly. yes i maintain rb20 is a turd purely and simply from the perspective of bang for buck when faced with the decision the OP has, as opposed to rb25. these guys you speak of with rb20s hanging with the r34s would be unlikely to be doing so without spending far more on the rb20 than they could have got away with on a 25.

i think the majority of r32 owners have an r32 because they are part of the large crowd who dislike r33's (mostly the looks and perhaps the boat-like handling has something to do with it). yes the the weight is a little offset by the extra cubes but that doesnt do much for the handling. light and nimble r32 is where its at if u ask me, OP is probably in the same boat or he would have just sold the 32 and got a 33 or 34 rather than going to the trouble of modifying the 32.

and r32's i think have pretty much lost all the value they will ever lose, lots of r33s are still quite expensive in comparison and will probably still depreciate. but like bubba said, when you'r modifying a car then forget about resale.

[Spurdo]

I estimate that I can find a 26 engine for free(someone has one in storage but has abandoned it possibly)

who in their right mind "abandons" an rb26?!! are rb26s as common as corn chips in japan that people just kick them out on the kerb with the trash for pickup or something?? lol

[335]

who in their right mind "abandons" an rb26?!! are rb26s as common as corn chips in japan that people just kick them out on the kerb with the trash for pickup or something?? lol

Some one did. Waiting to see what is going to be done with the engine.

With the RB25, will it having the VCT affect how I an mod it? Will a RB 25 tranny hold up with a RB26 ?

I will try to get a 26 if I can.

[discopotato03]

What does an R32 GTST weight with the R33s engine gearbox and brakes ?

Just curious , cheers A .

[bubba]

Some one did. Waiting to see what is going to be done with the engine.

With the RB25, will it having the VCT affect how I an mod it? Will a RB 25 tranny hold up with a RB26 ?

I will try to get a 26 if I can.

VCT won't affect what you can do unless you want HUGE cams.

Yes an RB25DET gearbox will hold up behind an RB26 (GTR's run pretty much the same internals in their box)

What does an R32 GTST weight with the R33s engine gearbox and brakes ?

Just curious , cheers A .

Gearbox and brakes would add maybe 30kg?

Box is what? 20kg heavier?

Rear brakes are the same, front calipers are pretty well the same (negligible as far as weight is concerned), the only significant difference would be the slightly bigger (heavier) front rotors.

[limpus]

each to their own exactly. yes i maintain rb20 is a turd purely and simply from the perspective of bang for buck when faced with the decision the OP has, as opposed to rb25. these guys you speak of with rb20s hanging with the r34s would be unlikely to be doing so without spending far more on the rb20 than they could have got away with on a 25.

Yup...because rb25s don't require the same support mods including a turbo to make similar power right? You'll still need all the same stuff like exhaust, fmic, fuel pump, injectors, ecu and a larger turbo to get to a similar power goal...agreed the 25 will make more torque down low regardless and will get away with a larger turbo for more outright power if that is the goal but for 300-350rwhp like the OP posted the mods needed on both are about the same...maybe injectors won't be required but thats about it...so cost wise it'd be pretty similar...and thats not including the cost of dropping a 25 in...

[Nee-san]

who in their right mind "abandons" an rb26?!! are rb26s as common as corn chips in japan that people just kick them out on the kerb with the trash for pickup or something?? lol

It was probably Roy when he realised it wasn't an RB20, Lol

[SoFreshSoClean]

I dont mean to turn this into an R32 vs R33 debate but the comments about R33 handling are just BS in my opinion.

Stock, I'd agree they are a bit flobbery. Put some good suspension bits in and they are right up there with R32/34.

Plus RB25 poos all over RB20 off boost.(Sorry RB20 lovers )

[bubba]

R32gtst + RB30DET is where it's at

[toffy]

each to their own exactly. yes i maintain rb20 is a turd purely and simply from the perspective of bang for buck when faced with the decision the OP has, as opposed to rb25. these guys you speak of with rb20s hanging with the r34s would be unlikely to be doing so without spending far more on the rb20 than they could have got away with on a 25.

i think the majority of r32 owners have an r32 because they are part of the large crowd who dislike r33's (mostly the looks and perhaps the boat-like handling has something to do with it). yes the the weight is a little offset by the extra cubes but that doesnt do much for the handling. light and nimble r32 is where its at if u ask me, OP is probably in the same boat or he would have just sold the 32 and got a 33 or 34 rather than going to the trouble of modifying the 32.

and r32's i think have pretty much lost all the value they will ever lose, lots of r33s are still quite expensive in comparison and will probably still depreciate. but like bubba said, when you'r modifying a car then forget about resale.

i call bullshit on pretty much your whole post , you've obviously never driven an r33 , which these days sell for the same $$ as an r32.... from what i've driven , r33 will out handle a r32 through most corners in aus (i've owned both and i'm not a r32 hater or a r33 lover incase you were wondering) . bang for buck the stock (or as close as you can get these days) rb20 feels a stronger motor than rb25 in and out of corners , and when you start modifying the only issue with the rb20 is it takes about 800rpm longer to spool most turbo's compared to rb25 , now you think about how a rb20 can rev 800-1000rpm more than a 25 and guess what! - even . one thing you are right about , r32's will stick at the price they're at for a long time (untill all te tools crash/destroy theirs and they become rare)

p.s if you buy a performance car based on how it looks your retarded and rb26 is king of import rb.

Edited August 5, 2010 by toffy

[Roy]

LOL , i love these threads. The RB30 crew scream RB30, the RB25 crew scream RB25, and the broke ass bastards scream RB20.

each to their own exactly. yes i maintain rb20 is a turd purely and simply from the perspective of bang for buck when faced with the decision the OP has, as opposed to rb25. these guys you speak of with rb20s hanging with the r34s would be unlikely to be doing so without spending far more on the rb20 than they could have got away with on a 25.

The above comparison explains all you need to know. Bass Junky is a NEO R34 GTT with GCG Hi Flow, Tomei cams and Power Fc. Abo Bob is a built Neo with pistons and GTR rods and Tomei cams running a GCG turbo. My car is a completely std RB20 with cam gears. No cams, nothing. It runs a TDO6. All cars have fmic, fuel pumps, injectors and Power FC. All are running about 18psi. So as a rule i dotn agree with the bang for buck argument. There are always exceptions, but as a rule RB20 with a turbo upgrade can live with a lot of cars and even those with bigger RBs as the lil 20 uses its power better then the wheelspinning torqe tractors.

Choose which ever power delivery you can live with or like. Me, i will keep my 3-5k in my pocket if all i am going to do is gain a few kws under 4,000rpm. Who gives a shit, and when you are having a go when is your car ever under 5,500rpm? My RB20 does not lose out at Phillip Island, Sandown or Calder to any RB25 or SR20 with the same power or, even ones with 40-60rwkws more. They seem to spin wheels with all this torque that everyone goes chasing while i just plant my foot, get traction and drive off.

Toffy is on the money, the extra revs you need to get an RB20 on song means you jsut have to use the extra revs available to you up top. You get about the same power band. You can really ring the neck of the RB20, when i need to on tight circuits motorkhanas i use 8,500-8,800rpm. Power does drop off, but means i drop the engine really into the meat of the power curve in 3rd year for those quick blasts in 3rd between sections. Must work if you can beat EVO 8 MRs and R34 GTTs on motorkahanas.

The pewter R34 is the one in the above graph. It was mostlya bit of fun...but you can see that where is the "value" in throwing an RB25 into an R32, even if the RB25 has a sub 300rwkws turbo upgrade?

So thats my best attempt at a balanced argument based on facts and experience... and actually while i am at it. Here is Russman in his HKS 2530 powered RB20 GTSt at Winton ...

And here he is being chased by an R33 GTR with R34 engine and N1 turbos making 280awkws ..

[JonnoHR31]

the blue line would make for the fastest all round car, by a long way over your rb20 too. rpm graph would give you a better idea as it looks like the 20 comes on a lot later than that graph implies.

[Roy]

Cant agree. Why do you care about the rpm? Where you make power relative to road speed is what is important. When i am changing gears accelerating my power is going from 180km/h to 120km/h. In that rev range i make more average power then the other setups. You apply the same 60km/hr band to the other setups and they have less average power.