Mines R34 v HKS R33

[Roy]

We are basically familiar with the footage of the Mines R34 Step 2 lapping the Ebisu cricuit. As best i can tell, the specs on this car are as follows:

- Std bore x stroke, cranks/rods/pistons

- Mines exhaust manifolds & dumps

- HKS 2530 x 2 turbos

- Mines 260 intake & 252 exhaust cams

- Mines ECU

- 600cc injectors and 270 L/h pump

- Titanium exhaust and carbon fibre bits and pieces

Now as best i know, the Step 2 car seen in the BMI footage is NOT the same spec car as recorded the 57.74 second lap at Tsukuba. The 57.74 car is the Step 3 which has additional mods

So watching an old tape the other night i found it interesting to see HKS's own R33 GTR car using the 2530s. Known as the T-002, the specs are as follows.

- 87 x 73.7 , by way of HKS pistons and rods - 2627cc

- HKS exhaust manifolds & dumps

- HKS2530 x 2 turbos

- HKS 272 inlet & 272 exhaust cams (+ Step 2 valvegear)

- HKS GT intercooler

- HKS injectors & fuel pump

- HKS F-Con ECU

- HKS 6 spd with Tilton twin plate clutch

- Power claims 720ps

The car appears to have std panels, with only some trim and seats removed for weight reduction. Now the footage of this car is impressive, but accelration is nowhere near as violent as the Mines Step 2 car which is still using the std R34 6-spd vs the close ratio HKS 6spd box

The HKS T-002 car lapped Tsukuba in 58.71, which is about a second slower then the Mines Step 3 car.

So got me thinking about the BMI R34 Mines Step 2 footage. No doubt the weight reduction seems to play a huge part in the performance/acceleration of the car, but...

... what are the chances that Mines have dialled in massive boost, fuels and a built bottom end to get the performance they did, then only to claim a lower state fo tune?

[meshmesh]

Firstly after reading the magazine article..

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/fo...ead.php?t=28936

got me keen in following mine's spec with my 34 when it arrives late this year.

I started a thread some weeks ago..

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=31827

& got a little help but not much.

Some things I found out were,

Engine: is not stock, all the internals are lightened & strengthened, bore is the same.

Boost: 1.4kg/cm2 "I think this is around 30pound" but temember reading they used 34pound"

Some things you missed:

Carbon fibre proppellor shaft

Total weight has been reduced to 1300 kg :wow:

Overall they claim around 630~hp. I've think that the mines car is "claimed to be the most standard" & other brand name cars are unrealistic for day to day driving. In the latest HPI mag they have an article about brand names fighting for time trial "nighthoods", best times = sales $$.

Anyhow here's the link to the mines N1 gtr:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babe...tr%2Findex.html

[meshmesh]

See below a quote from Rezz, when I asked whether the reduction in weight could really reduce the mines gtr, by 250kg...

Yes!!... I think you'd come to the same conclusion after seeing the HKS Full Carbon bodied Evo VII. The Japanese have really concentrated on weight reduction in the last few years, just look at the C-West S200, the HKS Evo VII, Mines cars, the Cyber Evo Evo VII... seeing all those cars in action, they are bloody fast for what they are, eg: buyable road cars. My point is, the Mines R34 GT-R is but one of the super fast track cars in Japan, so at least to me it doesn't seem so unbelieveable that it can be as fast as what it is.

[meshmesh]

Here are the spec of the mine's car...

The highest output 600ps/7400rpm  

Largest torque 60kgm/5400rpm  

Boost 1.4kg/cm2 = "i think this equals around 30psi"

ENGINE: Stage 2 "Basically strenthed items & lightened pistons"

CAMS: IN 252°/lift 9.1mm

IN 260°/lift 10.2mm

EX 252°/lift 9.1mm

EX 252°/lift 9.5mm  

CAM GEARS: Mine Adjustables

HEAD GASKET: Metal

INJECTORS: 600cc

ECU: Mines

AFM: Doesn't say "but does mentioned capable of 600ps"

TURBINE: HKS GT2530

PROPELLOR SHAFT: Carbon "what this?"

FUEL PUMP: 270L/h

EXHAUST:

Muffler silence VX PRO TITAN (90-115 Φ  

Front Pipe Mine's front pipe PRO TITAN (70x2-100-90 Φ

Outlet Mine's super outlet PRO (70-70 Φ  

Air Filter Mine's VX air filter

AERO PARTS:

Diffuser Few sir Mine's carbon front D

Main Wing Mine's carbon main wing

Rear Wing Stay Mine's carbon rear wing stay

Rear Wing Mine's carbon rear wing

Trunk Mine's carbon trunk  

Trunk Spoiler Mine's carbon trunk spoiler

Air Duct Mine's air duct  

Mirror Mine's carbon aero mirror

Radiator Shroud Mine's carbon radiator shroud

マインズオリジナル = Mines - Thanks to the Merl'star

[Guest RedLineGTR]

the important details they will never tell anyone and keep it in house other wise other shops are keen to copy.

[Merli]

Firstly, for those who can't read katakana, "マインズオリジナル" means: Mines Original.

Nothing exciting, but helps to know I guess...

Also, although not listed on the above spec sheet, watching the video of the Mines R34 lapping Tsukuba, it's obvious that the car is lower than standard, which suggests an inordinate amount of suspension changes on the car... The Japs don't muck around when setting up their track demo cars.

Secondly, the smaller camshafts on the Mines R34 would help in the faster revving of the engine from 4-5000rpm as seen on the video as compared to the larger 272/272 cams in the HKS R33...

As discussed in the lightened pulley thread, any weight reduction in the drivetrain rotating mass will result in a very noticable response increase, and the carbon prop shaft would contribute a lot to this...

I haven't seen the video of the HKS R33 lapping, can someone please host it for us?

[Roy]

meshmesh, the list of engine parts doesnt list pistons for the Step 2 Engine... are you sure it has forged pistons. (but appears to have std rods and crank)

Either way both cars are impressive, perhaps dropping weight and as Merli said modifying suspension (all that carbon droping the centre of gravity) contributes to the cars stunning performance.

[predator]

nothing is ever what it seems.. and in motorsport, as most people would know, its no different. Games, games, and more games, thats all it is. To claim any of these cars are "stock" or sticking to some formula is no more believeable than any "standard" F1 car exploit.

[Roy]

nothing is ever what it seems.. and in motorsport, as most people would know, its no different. Games, games, and more games, thats all it is. To claim any of these cars are "stock" or sticking to some formula is no more believeable than any "standard"  F1 car exploit.

Thats what im trying to get to the bottom of, imagine someone forking out the 15k for 2530s, manifolds, cams, ECU and injectors, only to end up with an additional 50-70rwkws (say about 280-300rwkws), when they thought they would be getting a MINESeque performance...

That said there is no doubting with those 15ks worth of mods any normal person would still be giggling like a lunatic...

...oh and what may help you guys identify the car is that the T-002 was also used as the HKS 0-300km/h car, firstly with GT2540Rs which equated to a time of about 23.## seconds from memory, then later with GT3037S which saw it bag a time of 17.84seconds.

[Nismo32]

I think the mines car also has massive 6 piston brakes and incredable sus setup. I think this is were a lot of its speed comes from. In one of the BM VCDs there is a R34 GTR battle. Most around 600HP and one with 700+HP and yet the mines is quicker than all of them by at least 1 second a lap. It seems to have a great setup as it looks a lot more stable and allows better power delivery to the ground. Its pretty much the only one not lighting up all fours on the exits of corners.

Cheers

[T0nyGTSt]

I think the mines car also has massive 6 piston brakes and incredable sus setup. I think this is were a lot of its speed comes from. In one of the BM VCDs there is a R34 GTR battle.

Brakes are AP 6 piston.

Suspension is Ohlins.

That GT-R BM 6 car battle is available for download off various sources.

T.

[DaiOni]

when you get up close and personal with these cars, as rezz has noted, you start to understand just how amazingly crafted they are - it's not just a case of stripping out these days

[Roy]

It seems to have a great setup as it looks a lot more stable and allows better power delivery to the ground. Its pretty much the only one not lighting up all fours on the exits of corners.

Is lighting up all four tyres really a sign of great susp setup? But i think i know what you are getting at... I have the R33 battle, but not the R34, can someone post a link?

[benm]

Someone email them all to me and i'll host

[Merli]

Is lighting up all four tyres really a sign of great susp setup? But i think i know what you are getting at... I have the R33 battle, but not the R34, can someone post a link?

Nismo32 said that the Mines R34 GTR was the only one NOT lighting up all four on corner exits

[Piggaz]

That GT-R BM 6 car battle is available for download off various sources.

T.

Any chance you could throw up a link for us? :D

[predator]

kazzaa lite is your friend..

[Roy]

Geez, you would think that i have a comprehension/reading problem :Oops:

[Snowman]

I think the guys at prospec have said that the thing they did to their cars that made the biggest response difference was the addition of a carbon fibre prop shaft. So much focus goes towards the engine but this could be an important key to supreme performance.

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, things I noticed;

^ Mines are very experienced circuit racers

^ Do they even have a factory drag car?

^ They concentrate their efforts on response from the engine, not outright power

^ The fast circuit race GTR's on "R" type tyres don't have more than 650 bhp (in general)

^ Even the Gibson R32's had around 640 bhp and they ran on slicks

^ They run high compression ratios, over 9 to 1 is common

^ The Gibson R32's were 9.5 to 1

^ They use turbos that are at their most efficient at that power level, they don't use a bigger turbo/turbo's and run them inefficiently

^ This seems to indicate that they won't sacrifice response for outright power, 10% better response must be better than 20% more power

^ They don't use big cams, this keeps the power band wide so it never drops off in corners

^ Before it can accelerate the car, the engine has to accelerate itself, so they use lightweight components like crank, rods, pistons, valves, retainers, buckets etc

^ Then it has to accelerate the other rotating bits, stuff like pulleys, flywheel. clutch, gearbox tailshaft, diff, drive shafts, brake rotors, hubs and wheels (you can bet they don't use heavy chrome wheels) etc

^ The car itself has to be as light as possible, this means less weight to accelerate, less weight to stop, less weight pushing out in the corners etc

^ a 20% weight reduction is thus better (faster) than a 20% power increase

^ They use Ohlin's double adjustable dampers, arguably the duck’s guts at the moment

Last, but by no means least, I can’t afford Mines prices, they make my nose bleed, they are so high