Bnr32 Track Build

[Kaido_RR]

I through i would start a new topic as i made the jump and bought a gtr

My focus for this build is suspension and aerodynamics and im looking for input from other GTR owners.

Here is what im start with

1990 BNR32 GTR 107,000km

Engine Swap which has done 50,000km (believe it is a r33 gtr engine)

R33 N1 Turbos

Bosch 044 Fuel Pump

ARC Airbox

HKS Hipower Cat-back exhaust + decat pipe

bleed value

No aircon

Hicas has been remove

Advan 17x9.5 +19 with 235/45/17 RE001 rubber

Bee-r suspension (looks to be just bee-r shocks with std spring however the car is pretty stiff but ride high looks std)

Parts which i will be using from my previous track car

AP Racing CP5500 Front Calipers (4pot)

Endless slotted 323 disc (32mm thick)

Endless cc-rg pads (front and rear)

APP Braided brake lines

Bride Zeta 3 seat

Nismo Steering Wheel

Nismo 4point harness

Now i have a HKS Oil coller (Type R remount oil mount + built in thermostate) the kit is for an R33 and the lines were just long enough for me to mount it on my driver side vent on the r33 and i think this MAY be an issue if i use it on the r32 as the bov are there, Should i just sell the kit and buy something made for the gtr or try and get it to fit?

Now the plan was to completely strip the interior and put a cage etc however my dad has decided he likes it so he wants to drive it on the street so that plan has gone out the window until i can convince him to buy a R34 gtr or R35 ahaha.

Please note i am a brand whore ahaha!

Now Suspension Setup Time.

After doing alot of reaching and research i have come to two choice regarding suspension arms setup

1.Ikea formula

2.Nismo

Now i would prefer to go the Ikea formula as i ran some of there gear in my r33 and just look the quality of the parts and the adjustment levels. However after reading "Merli's R32 Track Bitch" topic looks like he had issue with the Front LCA and full lock due to them not having any bump stoppers. Do you think this is enough of an issue to warrant me using nismo items (note the car will be street driven by my dad )

For swaybar it seems that everyone loves the cusco gear, so i will go with them if i can't get any ARC ones are a reasonable price.

LSD i will be looking a NISMO gear; 1.5way rear and 1way, nismo have a new lsd out which uses carbon plates which i will look into and see if it is worth the extra cash.

Now coilovers is were things get interesting. i ran Tein RA in my r33 and love them i would love to find some for my r32 but so far no luck. So the other opinions i have are ohlins, Kw (heard good things about them), possible HKS to start off with (something like Hypermax 3 sport however i know they are more an entry level street/track setup then a full hardcore race setup) or maybe nismo.

I have found some nismo s-tune suspension however i am not too sure if they will be too soft and i don't think nismo made there hardcore suspension for the r32.

Spring rate i am set on starting off with something around the 8/10 or 10/10 mark, alot of people will say thats too hard/stiff but i ran 10/10 in my gts-t and it was perfect and from what i have look at that the jap run it seems to be the normal.

Have a miss anything regarding suspension that i should look into?

Now onto Aero bits, to start off with i think i will just go with a front diffuser/undertray and rear diffuser.

rear diffuser i may use the one i bought for my r33 but never fitted

Front i am looking at getting this one

Im not sure if its aero properties are that great but its a starting point.

Front bumper im looking to replace with a n1 item so i can have the vents and just run the std lip.

Engine Wise, im looking to keep everything pretty much stock. Just an ecu upgrade and a tune with some more boost (car feels quick enough for the time being)

Thats about it for now, if i think of anything else i add it later

If anyone has any input please feel free to add, i have zero gtr experience and i have learn with my gts-t that it is better to do things right the first time.

Cheers Michael

Edited August 17, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Rowdyr32]

Wise choice with the 32. Best bang for buck car around.

I've been doing a bit of research lately and have a job in aviation so know a little about aero theory.

Wouldn't waste your time with either of those diffusers. Their made for kids doing blockies at the local shops. I'd go just a flat piece extending a little foward of the lip and back to the engine cross member. They say about 75mm off the ground. Nothing at the rear if your not going to run a full under tray.

A mate just made an undertray like I said for a friend on a r32 gtr and with that and a proper alignment he went from 1.48's at PI to 1.43's in one day.

Also don't know if you'll need the front diff atm with the power your running.

Nismo do a r-tune I'm pretty sure fot the track? S is for street? R is for track?

I run 7kgmm front and 5kgmm rear in my car and it handles well and absorbs the bumps well. My car can smash ripple strips and then just settles where a lot of the stiffer sprung cars struggle and oftern won't go near them.

Just because its Jap brand and stiff I wouldn't get to excited over it. Everybody who is quick that I have their susp setups on record say most people run cars way to stiff. I don't even know how you managed to power hard out of corners with 10kg rears. The car would have struggled for traction. How did you go compared to the gtr's with the same mods in the gtst. 1-2 seconds a lap slower?

It has all been done before so no need to try new things as most of it is all old and you'll just waste cash. Have a word to some of the guys pulling quick times. Easiest way to get to a semi quick pace and then it up to you and fine tune the car.

[Kaido_RR]

thanks Rowdyr

I am currently studying mech eng so im trying to apply my learning to my gtr hehe, thanks for the bits regarding the diffusers it should be easy to fab something up like you mention might give it a shot and see how it goes.

S-tune is street, and R-tune is for the track. i know nismo make the r-tune for the r34 gtr but can't remember if there is one for the r32 i know its pretty much just re-badge Ohlins with nismo spring.

My r33 was pretty good on traction it was running a 2way lsd and i could power out of turns without the rear spinning it just grip i would found it a issue after doing +5laps but i think that was more a tyre issue then suspension related.

Time wise i was pretty much on pair with gtr with similar power 300-350hp however i didn't really get a true timing because i crash the car before it was completely finish

I have a question regarding tyres size will 255 be to large for the front will it affect my steering?

Edited August 17, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[phunky_monkey]

255's up front will be fine from what I've seen on other track cars here in Vic.

Nismo do make an R-Tune for 32's from what I'm aware, Richard (Beer Baron) has some on his car from memory. Also, are Nismo suspension arms adjustable? They're not for the S-Chassis.

But as Rowdy has said, find other quick GT-R's and see what they've done. Better than throwing away money on parts that are not required.

[Beer Baron]

there is nothing wrong with the ikeya front LCA's I've personally sold dozens of them (including merli's set). john and unique was a bit excited about there being no steering stop on the arms. all it is is a little 'bump' in the arm at gets hit at full lock. let me ask you this. how many times on the circuit do you hit your steering stops? if you do, you have problems!

yes nismo make (well made) R tune suspension for the R32 GTR. it's very good. recently used my set in giants R32 GTR and he was very happy with them. the compared very favourably with the other custom ohlins he usually runs (they did have very low spring rates though more suited to tarmac rally than circuit.

the problem is the nismo r tunes are very exxy to buy new (around $8,000 right now) and hard to find in good condition used and even then they are still expensive. if you find a used set for good money in good condition then by all means go for it but I wouldn't make them your focus.

[Sir Lord Van Von Vader'ham]

Wise choice with the 32. Best bang for buck car around.

I've been doing a bit of research lately and have a job in aviation so know a little about aero theory.

Wouldn't waste your time with either of those diffusers. Their made for kids doing blockies at the local shops. I'd go just a flat piece extending a little foward of the lip and back to the engine cross member. They say about 75mm off the ground. Nothing at the rear if your not going to run a full under tray.

would it be worth doing the rear if you didnt have a fuel tank? my fuel cell is in the boot now and theres a massive "hole" in the rear.

Also would it matter/worth doing if if the front spitter was 100-120mm off the ground?

/end highjack

[Kaido_RR]

Thanks BeerBaron i was waiting for you to post

If you don't mind could you pm a price for front and rear LCA ?

agree about the nismo gear being over price but like i said bit of a brand whore lol, guess i just keep an eye out for a set of yahoo and if its cheap enough might buy them or else i just focus or getting some normal ohlines and maybe putting some swift springs in them.

And phunky_monkey yeah nismo are non adjustable for the gtr too, however love the quality and the gear work great in my gts-t but if beer baron says theres no problems with the IK gear i just go with that

[R31Nismoid]

8/10 10/10 will be too stiff as others have said if you have a look @ most fast circuit GTR's getting around, none of them are running that hard.

Also define "fine" in your GTS-T, perhaps if you put more forgiving stuff in there it might have been faster as it could have been more forgiving?

The age ole "what if" comes out quite a bit you'll find hehe.

I remember Scottsman was running some amazing times with no super expensive jap gear, just some cheap setup. For what the car was - it was exceptional.

So goes to show there is little point paying uber $$ if it's not going to do you much good over something half the price... especially on a budget.

Cash can then be spent elsewhere for more gains! So get along to the track days, find out what others are doing... but more importantly... what HAVE the done (so you don't waste time there either).

[dazmo]

Hey mate dont use the nismo arms they are fixed with no adjustment and really just an overpriced slightly better version of stock arms with better bushes and painted silver and are definately not value for money. The ikea stuff is the pick of the bunch for quality and adjustment.

The HKS suspension is rubbish as well as the valving system is not even a propper needle and seat system it is basiclly and rubber bush that squashes with the adjustment to allow less/more fluid movment.

The spring rates you mentioned will be way to stiff for australian tracks. Dont look to much into the japanese suspension settings as there tracks generally have a much better surface than any ozzy tracks i have seen so there settings are pretty irrelivent for our conditions 8 and 6 would be a much better starting point.

I would reccomend 1.5 way diffs front and rear. Local sway bars are just as good as the majority of jap branded swaybars. The only real advantage to be had with some of the jap branded sway bars is in a slight weight saving due to some being a hollow bar as opposed to locally made bars that are all solid but it is a very marginal weight advantage and IMHO not worth the extra cash.

It is all good to be a brand whore as a lot of us are (myself included) but sometimes there is a cheaper part that will do the same and occasionally a better job than some of the brand name gear and some of the big brand gear is not as good as what the you would think it is case in point is the HKS suspension. I would just reccomend researching whatever parts you are going to buy as there is nothing wrong with spending money on brand name parts as long as they are value for money and you are not just buying them because they have a brand name printed on them.

[tacker]

And dont believe Beer Baron.....i am still waiting for my pepper grinder!

[Kaido_RR]

Hey mate dont use the nismo arms they are fixed with no adjustment and really just an overpriced slightly better version of stock arms with better bushes and painted silver and are definately not value for money. The ikea stuff is the pick of the bunch for quality and adjustment.

The HKS suspension is rubbish as well as the valving system is not even a propper needle and seat system it is basiclly and rubber bush that squashes with the adjustment to allow less/more fluid movment.

The spring rates you mentioned will be way to stiff for australian tracks. Dont look to much into the japanese suspension settings as there tracks generally have a much better surface than any ozzy tracks i have seen so there settings are pretty irrelivent for our conditions 8 and 6 would be a much better starting point.

I would reccomend 1.5 way diffs front and rear. Local sway bars are just as good as the majority of jap branded swaybars. The only real advantage to be had with some of the jap branded sway bars is in a slight weight saving due to some being a hollow bar as opposed to locally made bars that are all solid but it is a very marginal weight advantage and IMHO not worth the extra cash.

It is all good to be a brand whore as a lot of us are (myself included) but sometimes there is a cheaper part that will do the same and occasionally a better job than some of the brand name gear and some of the big brand gear is not as good as what the you would think it is case in point is the HKS suspension. I would just reccomend researching whatever parts you are going to buy as there is nothing wrong with spending money on brand name parts as long as they are value for money and you are not just buying them because they have a brand name printed on them.

thanks for that info regarding the hks coilovers, They weren't my first choice but a very cheap set has come up for sale and through it would be better than what i have in the car currently. I think they have 6k springs

I always through 1way was the go with front lsd? that 1.5 for too be aggressive.

I'm still not 100% convinced that 10/10 is too stiff, like i mention i ran them in my gts-t and was more than happy with the way they work with the car. having said that it isn't too much money to change springs so maybe if i start at the 8/6 mark i can see how they compare with my 10/10 and go from there

[Kaido_RR]

8/10 10/10 will be too stiff as others have said if you have a look @ most fast circuit GTR's getting around, none of them are running that hard.

Also define "fine" in your GTS-T, perhaps if you put more forgiving stuff in there it might have been faster as it could have been more forgiving?

The age ole "what if" comes out quite a bit you'll find hehe.

I remember Scottsman was running some amazing times with no super expensive jap gear, just some cheap setup. For what the car was - it was exceptional.

So goes to show there is little point paying uber $$ if it's not going to do you much good over something half the price... especially on a budget.

Cash can then be spent elsewhere for more gains! So get along to the track days, find out what others are doing... but more importantly... what HAVE the done (so you don't waste time there either).

the gts-t have huge amounts of grip, the limiting factor in my setup was my tyres after few laps they could just not handle the heat and weight of the car. Even when i road the bumps i didn't lose traction or feel unstable. feel more like the car was on rails then anything.

But having said that what i plan to do with the gtr is timed events and 60% of the event are run on closes roads etc which is completely different to a track so i might need to go softer

Edited August 18, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[bigmikespec]

I would reccomend 1.5 way diffs front and rear. Local sway bars are just as good as the majority of jap branded swaybars. The only real advantage to be had with some of the jap branded sway bars is in a slight weight saving due to some being a hollow bar as opposed to locally made bars that are all solid but it is a very marginal weight advantage and IMHO not worth the extra cash.

dazmo, do you have experience with torsion diffs like the Quaife version for the front diff. in GTR's? Would having a 1.5way in the front increase understeer on decel.?

[Beer Baron]

depends. are you planning to brake around corners? the 1.5 way will lock under decell but on the track you should be braking in a straight line. if you are used to trailing a bit of brake at turn in then yes you may find you now have trouble turning in with the 1.5way. it just needs an adjustment in driving style. need to get your braking done in a straight line, square the corner up a bit and get on the power as soon as you are pointing straight(ish). with the front diff the car will absolutely launch out of corners but again with the front diff locking up it wont want to turn as much as it used to under full power. I would probably go with a 1way front if it worries you. 2 way or 1.5 way rear is fine. again you just need to adjust your driving style a bit but diffs in a track GTR are a good thing. no doubt about it.

[Beer Baron]

here are what the R32 GTR R tune nismo stuff looks like. they are basically a rebadged ohlins Flag R.

The spring rates are fairly high compared to what most guys use but with good dampers to control them they work very well. russ was very impressed with how they performed in his car. of course they have all the nice features, 50mm pistons, external resevoir, separate bump and rebound adjustment (30X20), all alloy shock casing for light weight, of course fully rebuild-able and customise-able with different shim stacks. in fact russ ran a PB on these at eastern creek earlier this year. and they are fairly well used by now.

[djr81]

depends. are you planning to brake around corners? the 1.5 way will lock under decell but on the track you should be braking in a straight line. if you are used to trailing a bit of brake at turn in then yes you may find you now have trouble turning in with the 1.5way. it just needs an adjustment in driving style. need to get your braking done in a straight line, square the corner up a bit and get on the power as soon as you are pointing straight(ish). with the front diff the car will absolutely launch out of corners but again with the front diff locking up it wont want to turn as much as it used to under full power. I would probably go with a 1way front if it worries you. 2 way or 1.5 way rear is fine. again you just need to adjust your driving style a bit but diffs in a track GTR are a good thing. no doubt about it.

For my 10 cents worth I would get a Quaiffe front & a 1.5 way rear.

I have a Nismo rear LSD - the Pro model. The most common adjective used to describe it is "nasty". Frankly the TT or whatever Nismo call it (the version with a lesser ramp angle) would have been fine.

Basically I don't beleive that a GTR needs much in the way of rear LSD & certainly nothing in the way of diff locking on the over run. You have to drive them square like teh Baron says. For me that involves trail braking hence the front LSD comment.

The focus of your set up (in my opinion anyway) is finding as much front end grip as possible (a hard thing to do in a GTR) & making sure the ATTESSA system reacts the way you want it to. It is common to see GT-R's on the track that understeer on the way into a corner (because of no front end grip) then oversteer on the way our (because their 4WD system is not working well). The adjective used to describe these cars is usually "slow".

[Beer Baron]

It is common to see GT-R's on the track that understeer on the way into a corner (because of no front end grip) then oversteer on the way our (because their 4WD system is not working well). The adjective used to describe these cars is usually "slow".

spot on. very hard to get GTRs to achieve good corner speed. they romp down the straight, launch out of corners but mid corner is certainly their weakness. and most of that is lack of front end grip.

once the AWD is sorted (rebuilt transfer) then you will really see the need for a front diff. I'd estimate 8 out of 10 R32 GTRs have an AWD system that is not functioning correctly. very easy to test. if you dial up 7,000rpm and launch it and the car leaves 4 black lines then it's working. if you get massive rear wheel spin then you have AWD problems (most likely stuffed transfer).

like you said they end up with corner entry understeer and big mid corner push, and then massive corner exit oversteer. even worse with some decent power (350kw+).

The first things you should be doing to any track GTR.

rebuild transfer case

check AWD function

install front diff and sump baffles/extended sump at the same time (both require engine out)

then start on suspension etc.

a mild GTR with good awd and good LSDs can get around a track pretty quickly.

[Kaido_RR]

Thank dj and beerbaron good info

My goal is 350-400hp which i think shouldnt be a problem with the n1 turbos.

What is the best way to rebuild the transfer case? Is there any off the shelf parts u can buy for them?

Also what about the std oil pump? Will this cause any problems at my target power? I have seen a nismo pump not n1 for sale and thinking it might be a good buy for the future

[djr81]

Thank dj and beerbaron good info

My goal is 350-400hp which i think shouldnt be a problem with the n1 turbos.

What is the best way to rebuild the transfer case? Is there any off the shelf parts u can buy for them?

Also what about the std oil pump? Will this cause any problems at my target power? I have seen a nismo pump not n1 for sale and thinking it might be a good buy for the future

Rebuilding the transfer case is expensive. But it wont necessarilly need rebuilding.

The case has a series of clutch plates in it. Like all clutches (wet or dry) the are subject to wear. If you look at the manual you will see that Nissan offer a list of end plates/shims of different thicknesses. These make sure the clutch packs are in a range that allows the ATTESSA system to function as it should.

What happens is they get old, the gaps open up & then the system is slow to react. Hence you get oversteer.

So yeah, a new end plate may be all you need to make it work properly. Hell it may still be ok. So find that out first. The problem is that until you take the thing apart & measure it you don't know which shim size you need so the job takes a while.

The other thing to do is find a Ruzik ATTESSA controller. If they are still available. These are an important tuning aid for corner exit behaviour.

If the motor is ex an R33 then the oil pump should be ok as it is of the better type. Check you harmonic balancer to make sure it is still in good order though.

[Rowdyr32]

The focus of your set up (in my opinion anyway) is finding as much front end grip as possible (a hard thing to do in a GTR) & making sure the ATTESSA system reacts the way you want it to. It is common to see GT-R's on the track that understeer on the way into a corner (because of no front end grip) then oversteer on the way our (because their 4WD system is not working well). The adjective used to describe these cars is usually "slow".

I found most gtr drivers problems are they carry brakes to hard into the corner, turn in early and to hard and get on the power to late and hard hoping the 4wd will sort it out but its to late for them.

They are understeery but I have noticed and learnt like some of you have mentioned to brake hard, get off the brakes a lot, turn in late and smooth to loads it up and get on the power early and fairly hard which makes the car understeer a fraction and then 4 wheel power side into/out of the exit. Interested in all the front diff LSD opinions as my thing doesn't seem to fry the front inside out of corners at all and I'm on streets but maybe thats the prob as it isn't generating enough grip to unload the inside tyre enough. Bought slicks for it last night so that might be another story. Also never thought about the 1.5 locking on brakes..

I was reading an article recently from Mark Skaife testing a R32 Winfield vs R35

"There’s a bit of crudeness," he smiled from the cockpit. "There's a lot of stuff that was really modern for the era, and now not. Like the gear lever, and where it is. We never bent the lever and put it where we wanted it ... It's a lot more road-car-y, and that's essentially what they were."

Skaife did three or four laps in the R32, dabbing brakes as he left the pit-lane, then giving the car an 80 percent thrashing for a similar portion of each lap. He was deferring to the car's age and value, but owner Ashwood had also asked him to shake it down for that weekend's Phillip Island Classic.

The barking note from the side-exit pipe was a reminder that touring cars don't need a V8 to sound great.

"I felt very comfortable straight away," Skaife grinned when he came back to the pits, remembering the familiar click-click-clicking of the American-made Electramotive engine management. "A lot of nice memories come back, from just the feel of it and the sounds and the things that were part of what made the car very special.

"You know, so many of the intrinsic, engineering things that we did with that car, as soon as you get in and drive it, poof -- they just come back. I mean, the way that car turns at the corner, is unbelievable. In fact, it would be the best car on turn-in that I would have driven in 10 years or more. It’s unbelievable."

A mate now has most of the suspension settings for the Winfield GTR back in the day so it'll be good to see what the ran.

Also made my own 4wd controller out of a Jaycar 0-5 volt diy kit. Cheap and works well but not adjustable easily for different conditions.

I made 280rwkw inj limited on 32 N1 turbos so your 400hp is easily achievable.