Bnr32 Track Build

[djr81]

Risking, i agree aero is unnecessary but i through it might be good to use my gtr to experiment on using what im learning at uni, and possible for my 4th year project next year.

My goal is sub 55sec on the short track with 500-600hp (@ the engine) with a responsive car and not a crazy build engine.

55 seconds (Sub or otherwise) is actually a pretty good lap time in a GTR on the short circuit. But you need to remember that it (the short circuit) has only the pit straight where you can use any of the horsepower. The rest of it is corners & they are fiddly, mickey mouse ones for the most part. Frankly I can only think on one bloke who runs sub 55's in a R32 R with any regularity.

If you want a good short circuit time sort the suspension & forget about the motor.

God I hope they hurry the fk up with the track upgrade and we never have to use the short circuit ever again. There are only four real corners at Wanneroo. Only two of those are any fun. Guess which two the short circuit doesn't use????

[tacker]

Kaido,

your getting sound advise from these guys!

I have some knowledge about this as well as i did build mine to race against some serious factory race cars. And to be perfectly honest we built a great engine with lots of power, and that was my first mistake.

From the day we removed the stock engine was the day we started to have issues. Not once did the old stock engine give any problems. Instead of spending 10k+ on that i would have, should have put that into the handling development of the old girl. It was only after i did start to get that part of the package right did the lap time really improve and that was after i had a 430AWHP engine sitting in it.

Your order of merrit should be something like this.

Weld in cage

Weight reduction program (best HP ever)

Better brake package

Better suspension coil overs, bushes, swaybars and control arms etc

Ensure 4wd system and diffs are 100%

Oil cooler / radiator ( well i had to at least )

That will give you a good platform to start with, and wont cost you a down payment of a house! I like to look at it this way HP will make you a bit faster, as it will cover any mistakes you make or the lack of handling from your car. Penny dropped for me one day following a clio cup car while running another new engine in. Was only allowed to pull 4000 RPM which put me about the same top speed as the clio. Unlike race days where i would hose them down any straight if i needed too. But following this guy for 20 minutes firmly told me my car was not all it should of been as he handed my arse back to me in the twisty sections. But some investment in good coilovers etc and a alinement spec supplied by Giant made far more improvement in laptimes then when i dropped the 10k engine in.

[Marlin]

^^^ Never has a truer word been spoken.

[tacker]

If i sum it up all i was doing was asking more and more from the engine to cover up other issues ( which were far cheaper to correct ) in the handling and weight of the car

[Marlin]

Exactly, and of course, you add power, meaning you need bigger brakes, which add weight, not to mention you also need to brake earlier.

Then of course the weight means less corner speed, so then you add more power to make up for the downfall.... and so on and so forth, until you have a 600hp weapon with massive brakes that is no quicker around a circuit than a lighter car with 300hp, but it IS a lot more demanding on costs to run.

[tacker]

OHH aye it is

[Beer Baron]

for sure. my old track GTR with 270rwkw was about the same lap time wise at eastern creek as my other grey R32 with 330awkw. the first car had full cage, well set-up ohlins (the same ones I lent giant), lots of time spent on alignment, adustable arms, swaybars etc. it has a fairly stock motor pushing out a super reliable 276kw atw, very easy to drive without massive power on oversteer, good LSD, AWD sorted etc. the other car had much less suspension development and much more power but was not faster and used it's brakes pretty hard.

there is a sweet spot with GTRs that you get to and the smart men leave it at that. the rest of us keep pushing for more (me included).

I reckon for circuit fun in an R32:

upgrade fuel pump (nismo drop in - worth spending on this as it's literally the heart of the car pumping the blood around)

power FC (used, $800)

plenty of time spent tuning (both dyno and road if possible)

either standard turbos at 1bar, or GTSS/garret equivalents run up to 16psi

Big oil cooler (the jap ones are excellent but a bit pricey, the chinese ones are shit, for a mid budget option go with mocal or earls and piece together your own kit)

leave stock intercooler and radiator (changing the intercooler robs the rad of air and means you end up with water temp problems. the stock intercooler is fine for 300kw)

do a hard pipe kit (doesn't have to be the full suction kit, just the one that replaces the main rubber cooler hoses, about $400 second hand for a trust kit)

leave stock BOVs

get a good EBC, trust profec B II will be fine for a car of this level and cheap.

get your injectors cleaned and flowed (as long as they are in good shape their 440cc/min is enough for what you are after)

keep the stock AFMs (like the injectors they'll be maxed but that's fine at this level of power)

get a good exhaust. doesn't have to be titanium. I've had stainless, titanium, and mild and actually my favourite of the lot was a V-band mild steel system, for track use ditch the cat

set of 17X9 +20 wheels and some 235-255 semi slicks or slicks, or 18s if you really want but 32s work well on 17s (the downside is they restrict brake options and tyre choices)

for brakes rebuild your stock calipers, get some brackets made so you can fit some 340mm rotors on the front or even stick with stock 296mm but get new ones and good pads suited to the use of the car

ditch all the interior bar the drivers seat

I believe in spending money on a good seat and a good harness (it's your safety)

mount battery on passenger side floor just in front of where the rear seat used to be

now the expensive stuff.

some good shocks and springs. custom bilstein set-up, Tein RA or RS, nismo R-tune or Ohlins Flag R are about the best gear under $8K (and some are well under). or look at some MCA/proflex

get the arms you need. spend up and do them right first time. Ikeya Formula for all the ones they make, and UAS or noltec for front upper control arms (or even better cut and shut stock arms once you know your length).

swaybars. whiteline bars are ok on a budget (and cheap second hand, it's not like they wear out...) but the ARC bars are best. in between are cusco which are not bad but non adjustable but well priced

you'll also need a good clutch. OS Giken twin plates are cheap to buy and rebuild and reliable.

if you want to spend some money on a sump extension but you should be ok without it at this power level. instead get some good guages preferably with warning buzzers/lights and record function so you can monitor oil surge.

Spend some time learning about suspension alignment and set-up. it's important.

buy a radiator header tank system. about $400 for the ARC one which is good and in my eyes I would do that BEFORE a radiator. don't buy a shiny china radiator. have a look how many people fitted one only to realise they performed worse than the stock 20mm core...

that's about it off the top of my head. everything power wise will be maxed and it's a good balance for the handling/braking/power of the car. it will be reliable and fun and as your driving improves so will your set-up skills and your lap times. nothing on the list is super expensive and the good thing is it can all be done piece by piece.

[djr81]

set of 17X9 +20 wheels and some 235-255 semi slicks or slicks, or 18s if you really want but 32s work well on 17s (the downside is they restrict brake options and tyre choices)

I believe in spending money on a good seat and a good harness (it's your safety)

get the arms you need.

Spend some time learning about suspension alignment and set-up. it's important.

as your driving improves so will your set-up skills and your lap times.

All of what teh Baron said is spot on. But the few things highlighted above you should take to the bank.

I would note that a set of RE55's in 17's is about $500 cheaper than the same width in 18's.

Also driver training is the best/cheapest way of improving lap times when you are starting out.

All that is sage advice, but this should be tattoed on the forehead on anyone who modifies a car.

spend up and do it right first time.

Edited August 26, 2010 by djr81

[djr81]

Exactly, and of course, you add power, meaning you need bigger brakes, which add weight, not to mention you also need to brake earlier.

Then of course the weight means less corner speed, so then you add more power to make up for the downfall.... and so on and so forth, until you have a 600hp weapon with massive brakes that is no quicker around a circuit than a lighter car with 300hp, but it IS a lot more demanding on costs to run.

Yeah more expensive & the killer punch is it is also less fun to drive.

[Marlin]

How many words per minute ya doin these days Baron, 200?

Do you make good coffee too? Short skirts? Loose blouse?

[tacker]

LOL at BB in short skirt

[Roy]

All this money makes me appreciate just how cheap strip joints are in Warsaw, if the memories dont last a lifetime the itch will

[R31Nismoid]

How many words per minute ya doin these days Baron, 200?

Do you make good coffee too? Short skirts? Loose blouse?

lol... That has the most worrying of images occuring for me

[phunky_monkey]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm definitely aroused *thrusts*

[Kaido_RR]

EPIC PAGE! Thanks everyone!

lots of information Like i said aim is 500hp @ the engine so anywhere between 300-400hp at the wheels and i will be happy.

BeerBaron you pretty much read my mine when it came to suspension setup:

RA are my top coilovers because i have run them in my gts-t and LOVE them, just adjusting the damper and rebound on the track made huge difference to my lap time and how stable the car was.

All Arms will be replace my I.K gear, Swaybars its between the cusco and ARC, i think ARC are about $250-$300 more but i might just bite the bullet and get them.

Clutch will be nismo twin plate, again ran that in my r33 and was more than happy with how it looked after i took it out (3years of abuse and looked brand new)

Defi are the go for gauges.

already got the rims (17x9.5 +19) just need some RE55 for them now.

Brakes will be replaced with my AP gear for the front.

ATM the car is way to laggy with the N1 turbos and stock ecu, so i play to get the pfc in, finish the exhaust and tune it and hopefully that will improve the lag.

The power mods will come at the end of the year were i will take the engine out, do the sump, oil pump, water pump, timing belt etc at that time i plan to smash in some cams and cam gears and new turbos HKS GT-SS.

exciting months ahead finger cross i can get my AP brakes on soon, so i can hit the track next month just to get a feel for the car and see how far off it is to my gts-t time wise.

AGAIN THANKYOU EVERYONE your help has been awesome save me doing things backwards and wasting time and money

Edited August 26, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Kaido_RR]

55 seconds (Sub or otherwise) is actually a pretty good lap time in a GTR on the short circuit. But you need to remember that it (the short circuit) has only the pit straight where you can use any of the horsepower. The rest of it is corners & they are fiddly, mickey mouse ones for the most part. Frankly I can only think on one bloke who runs sub 55's in a R32 R with any regularity.

If you want a good short circuit time sort the suspension & forget about the motor.

God I hope they hurry the fk up with the track upgrade and we never have to use the short circuit ever again. There are only four real corners at Wanneroo. Only two of those are any fun. Guess which two the short circuit doesn't use????

I know gav ran 54s in his 2.8L 32 and last track day i remember seeing a orange 32 which was very fast no idea lap times.

agree the track is boring, long track is ok but its nothing to technical

[zebra]

EPIC PAGE! Thanks everyone!

lots of information Like i said aim is 500hp @ the engine so anywhere between 300-400hp at the wheels and i will be happy.

BeerBaron you pretty much read my mine when it came to suspension setup:

RA are my top coilovers because i have run them in my gts-t and LOVE them, just adjusting the damper and rebound on the track made huge difference to my lap time and how stable the car was.

All Arms will be replace my I.K gear, Swaybars its between the cusco and ARC, i think ARC are about $250-$300 more but i might just bite the bullet and get them.

Clutch will be nismo twin plate, again ran that in my r33 and was more than happy with how it looked after i took it out (3years of abuse and looked brand new)

Defi are the go for gauges.

already got the rims (17x9.5 +19) just need some RE55 for them now.

Brakes will be replaced with my AP gear for the front.

ATM the car is way to laggy with the N1 turbos and stock ecu, so i play to get the pfc in, finish the exhaust and tune it and hopefully that will improve the lag.

The power mods will come at the end of the year were i will take the engine out, do the sump, oil pump, water pump, timing belt etc at that time i plan to smash in some cams and cam gears and new turbos HKS GT-SS.

exciting months ahead finger cross i can get my AP brakes on soon, so i can hit the track next month just to get a feel for the car and see how far off it is to my gts-t time wise.

AGAIN THANKYOU EVERYONE your help has been awesome save me doing things backwards and wasting time and money

If you went with whitline sway bars you could save yourself $500 which is 1 tyre

Get Autometer Gauges instead of Defi - another $500 so theres 2 tyres straight up, with no performance disadvantage

[endless]

Cheers for all the input in this thread, really informative. Looking to hit the track myself soon with similar setup.. this has helped a heap!

I have some R34 N1's that i will be installing soon along with a set of HPI dumps so my power goals are pretty similar to yours Kaido.

One thing i also thought i would add/ask about are the (mines?) cam cover baffles & a catch can be a good investment due to all the oil related 26 issues..

[Kaido_RR]

If you went with whitline sway bars you could save yourself $500 which is 1 tyre

Get Autometer Gauges instead of Defi - another $500 so theres 2 tyres straight up, with no performance disadvantage

Reason i pick defi, is i want the defi 3 din (water, oil temp and oil pressure) and just a defi racer boost gauge, which should be around $600-$800 depends if i buy brand new or not so not bad price really.

Cheers for all the input in this thread, really informative. Looking to hit the track myself soon with similar setup.. this has helped a heap!

I have some R34 N1's that i will be installing soon along with a set of HPI dumps so my power goals are pretty similar to yours Kaido.

One thing i also thought i would add/ask about are the (mines?) cam cover baffles & a catch can be a good investment due to all the oil related 26 issues..

Good point, forgot to ask that myself as i was also thinking about running the mines baffles in the head until i can get the sump off and put the tomei baffle in there.

Keep us update on your car, interested to see another similar gtr and how it goes Oh and i see your a perth boy too might see you at the track

Edited August 26, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[mattah]

In my opinion Ikeya Formula stuff isn't worth it unless you are loaded. Get either Cazman's stuff, or SPL gear from the states. The SPL gear especially is super trick.

What's the deal with the rear swaybar on an R32? I know on S chassis a lot of track guys either leave them stock or just remove it.