Bnr32 Track Build

[djr81]

some numbnuts did this to my car... Chris just pulled the Teins out to get rebuilt and the springs were 10F 11R... no wonder the rear just wouldn't settle over rough surfaces... going with a softer rate front and rear now so should put the power down better... must have been a mistake when the original owner ordered them, can't see anyone in their right mind doing that on purpose!

Well putting aside the ludicrously high numbers it is not uncommon to see harder springs on the rears of GT-R's than on the fronts. The actually build them that way stock. Just not common on track R32 GT-R's because the ATTESSA system is so ordinary. Check the Nismo rates for the 32's, 33's & 34's.

Harder rear springs help reduce understeer and an AWD car shouldn't really have traction problems so you don't need soft rear springs to help in that area so much. So all up it actually makes sense if you can make it work.

[Kaido_RR]

Can I ask who you ordered through Luke?

at a guess i would say it be jesse streeter

[NickR33]

Well putting aside the ludicrously high numbers it is not uncommon to see harder springs on the rears of GT-R's than on the fronts. The actually build them that way stock. Just not common on track R32 GT-R's because the ATTESSA system is so ordinary. Check the Nismo rates for the 32's, 33's & 34's.

Harder rear springs help reduce understeer and an AWD car shouldn't really have traction problems so you don't need soft rear springs to help in that area so much. So all up it actually makes sense if you can make it work.

well I just learnt something today! thanks for that

maybe it was just the super high spring rate that was the real problem... over rough surfaces the rear would pogo and skip making it scary to be really committed mid corner just to have the car hit a bump and step sideways

I wouldn't describe it as having 'traction problems' comparing to a RWD its excellent but I feel it could be better if there was a little more in the way of weight transfer from standing start

I would rather have a softer spring in the rear and a stiffer bar to help the understeer... 11kg/mm springs in the rear of a 600hp GTR WOT over rough surfaces is a bit scary to be honest... but maybe I'm just a little girl

[Kaido_RR]

hmm

time to buy gauges... tossing up between

3x defi racer gauges (52mm), 2x temp (oil,water) and 1x pressure

or

defi 3 din gauge

im pretty sure i will be able to fit the 3x racer gauges in the std din spot

price is about the same

around $657 for the racer gauges and similar price i think $650 for the 3 din

Also after alot of reading and researching i have decide to go with swift springs. from everything i have read they seems to be the top rated spring and come highly recommend from race teams in the uk. It also seems like you can get away with a higher spring rate with swift springs due to their design, so looks like i might be buying 4 pairs of springs (6, 7.5, 8 and 10)

Edited September 17, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[mattah]

Also after alot of reading and researching i have decide to go with swift springs. from everything i have read they seems to be the top rated spring and come highly recommend from race teams in the uk. It also seems like you can get away with a higher spring rate with swift springs due to their design, so looks like i might be buying 4 pairs of springs (6, 7.5, 8 and 10)

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I would think that a 6kg spring is a 6kg spring any day of the week. All you care about is the accuracy of the spring and how well it maintains that rate.

[sav man]

unless they are progressive or double progressive, I imagine it's just marketing hype. a 10kg spring is a 10kg spring.

Edited September 17, 2010 by sav man

[bigmikespec]

I would go for a digital dash like a Race Technology one and run it off the ECU sensors

[Risking]

The first 3 pairs of springs you have correct ( I thibk they are the rates I recommended you buy)

the last set of 10's are a waste of $220 odd bucks.

Springs do vary from brand to brand, hence why I have a tester.

When you have the car going and want to play with springs I'll send you over a range of eibach 9.5-11.5's to try, you will quickly agree they are a waste of time and pull them back out.

[Risking]

One oter thing you haven't considered which is just as important to springs is the valving in the quantums.

I'd not be ordering any springs till you have the shocks dynoed and tested to be sure they will be able to control your choice of spring.

What your reading about race teams in the uk should be taken as hearsay. They would be using far better shocks which are valved and built to suit the springs.

Go back to the pm I replied too, I recommended the brands to you for a reason, the choice is yours though.

I'll email you a few shock dyno results, same shock (penske) ,same valving, 4 different spring brands of the same linear rate.

[Kaido_RR]

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I would think that a 6kg spring is a 6kg spring any day of the week. All you care about is the accuracy of the spring and how well it maintains that rate.

as i did too but i came across this and found it interesting

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408367

Originally Posted by ninjlao View Post

Now I have tested time and time again, all sorts of different springs from all kinds of manufacturers. I am always pretty confident with the swift product. Now if I find a better product then I will back that, but so far to this day I have not found one.

Now Zerosum brought up a good point. What you claimed is the exact thing that splits the Swift springs apart from all the other spring manufacturer. Now lets say I were to get the most precise spring from Hiperco or Eibach and compared it with a Swift spring. On a spring dyno it will be very similar. The graph would probably look identical, but then if you were to physically use those springs and swap them out, to use back to back, It would be a night and day difference. You would immediately be able to tell which is Swift. The Swift will feel much more compliant, in fact its exactly what Zerosum said "the impacts are much better damped". I know it is hard to understand but I will explain.

It is not the spring rate that distinguishes the differences in the impact of uneven pavement. Spring rate has more to do with the reaction of the amount of force put onto the spring. In other words to put it in simple terms, it will affect body roll. I am not saying that initial impact of uneven pavement can be softened by softening spring rate, but that is not the correct way to make a car more compliant. The correct way is the shock absorber the main reason for this is because there is a form of mechanical lag with the spring. This is why some suspension companies do not even believe in adjusting spring rate (talk to the techs at KW).

Now for some reason the reaction rate or the time to respond from impact with the Swift spring is much much quicker than ANY other spring company. This is something that can not be seen on a spring dyno. But can be tested. In fact through the testing that I have done we have seen that even with the exact spring rates being used the tire temperatures with the Swift springs is always cooler. This is the reaction rate of the spring, or frequency of the spring is what some suspension scientists explained it to me as. (LOL)

But of course track testing is nowhere near accurate for testing because there are so many different variables that come into play with simply measuring tiretemps.

Anyways the reason why we came to the conclusion that the reaction speed is different is because we ended up taking the car to a shaker rig. Which is an extemely expensive process, which I obviously did not pay for but was there to help figure out why the Swift springs were so different.

Anyways what I am trying to say is that the Swift springs even with the same rates will durastically make a difference with the performance of the vehicle.

original link http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=775212

Edited September 17, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Kaido_RR]

The first 3 pairs of springs you have correct ( I thibk they are the rates I recommended you buy)

the last set of 10's are a waste of $220 odd bucks.

Springs do vary from brand to brand, hence why I have a tester.

When you have the car going and want to play with springs I'll send you over a range of eibach 9.5-11.5's to try, you will quickly agree they are a waste of time and pull them back out.

yeah those 1st 3 are the ones you said to get, i was just going to buy the 10's for shit and giggles to see if they were any good, however if im lucky the springs that come with my coilovers might already be 10's

have you compare eibach to swifts?

One oter thing you haven't considered which is just as important to springs is the valving in the quantums.

I'd not be ordering any springs till you have the shocks dynoed and tested to be sure they will be able to control your choice of spring.

What your reading about race teams in the uk should be taken as hearsay. They would be using far better shocks which are valved and built to suit the springs.

Go back to the pm I replied too, I recommended the brands to you for a reason, the choice is yours though.

I'll email you a few shock dyno results, same shock (penske) ,same valving, 4 different spring brands of the same linear rate.

hmm now to find a shock dyno in perth, i remember i had a similar problem when trying to get my tein ra on a shock dyno the price i was roughly quote was something crazy.

I'm debating if i should have the quantums O/H (revalue) in japan before i sent them to perth, If i remember right quantum charges around 100,000yen to do a complete O/H

Edited September 17, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[djr81]

as i did too but i came across this and found it interesting

Originally Posted by ninjlao View Post

Now I have tested time and time again, all sorts of different springs from all kinds of manufacturers. I am always pretty confident with the swift product. Now if I find a better product then I will back that, but so far to this day I have not found one.

Now Zerosum brought up a good point. What you claimed is the exact thing that splits the Swift springs apart from all the other spring manufacturer. Now lets say I were to get the most precise spring from Hiperco or Eibach and compared it with a Swift spring. On a spring dyno it will be very similar. The graph would probably look identical, but then if you were to physically use those springs and swap them out, to use back to back, It would be a night and day difference. You would immediately be able to tell which is Swift. The Swift will feel much more compliant, in fact its exactly what Zerosum said "the impacts are much better damped". I know it is hard to understand but I will explain.

It is not the spring rate that distinguishes the differences in the impact of uneven pavement. Spring rate has more to do with the reaction of the amount of force put onto the spring. In other words to put it in simple terms, it will affect body roll. I am not saying that initial impact of uneven pavement can be softened by softening spring rate, but that is not the correct way to make a car more compliant. The correct way is the shock absorber the main reason for this is because there is a form of mechanical lag with the spring. This is why some suspension companies do not even believe in adjusting spring rate (talk to the techs at KW).

Now for some reason the reaction rate or the time to respond from impact with the Swift spring is much much quicker than ANY other spring company. This is something that can not be seen on a spring dyno. But can be tested. In fact through the testing that I have done we have seen that even with the exact spring rates being used the tire temperatures with the Swift springs is always cooler. This is the reaction rate of the spring, or frequency of the spring is what some suspension scientists explained it to me as. (LOL)

But of course track testing is nowhere near accurate for testing because there are so many different variables that come into play with simply measuring tiretemps.

Anyways the reason why we came to the conclusion that the reaction speed is different is because we ended up taking the car to a shaker rig. Which is an extemely expensive process, which I obviously did not pay for but was there to help figure out why the Swift springs were so different.

Anyways what I am trying to say is that the Swift springs even with the same rates will durastically make a difference with the performance of the vehicle.

Look all that stuff may sound impressive but it is a bunch of pseudo scientific psycho babble. In other words, rubbish.

Edited September 20, 2010 by djr81

[Marlin]

And my reply to that dude's post?

.......... "It's spring steel dickhead, get over it".

[djr81]

And my reply to that dude's post?

.......... "It's spring steel dickhead, get over it".

Nice.

[Kaido_RR]

Look all that stuff may sound impressive but it is a bunch of pseudo scientific psycho babble. In other words, rubbish.

fair enough lol see how the 8/6 combo go then

Edited September 20, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[Kaido_RR]

Quick Just regarding cooling?

will the std intercooler and radiator be able to handle 400-450hp ?

is there any gains in upgrading to aftermarket? been looking at nismo and arc gear, (second hand not brand new)

[NickR33]

yep... could do with a good clean/flush though

I've got Trust cooler and radiator in my car and for the life of me I can't see the difference between it and a standard setup... in fact I reckon mine runs hotter due to the massive cooler blocking airflow to the rad

[djr81]

Quick Just regarding cooling?

will the std intercooler and radiator be able to handle 400-450hp ?

is there any gains in upgrading to aftermarket? been looking at nismo and arc gear, (second hand not brand new)

Stock is fine for those numbers. In fact stock is better for response with those numbers.

[Kaido_RR]

thanks was thinking the same stock should be fine. just need to get the i/c piping replaced.

Also just to note i do not have a condenser from the aircon system (no aircon) so i have good flow in between the ic and rad

edit: YAY my std bnr32 lip and nismo strut brace plus brake master stopper has just arrived now no more snow plow spec jun lip

Edited September 21, 2010 by Kaido_RR

[On Edge]

And my reply to that dude's post?

.......... "It's spring steel dickhead, get over it".