How to turbo your N/A

[dori34]

^ dan i recieved my LED bulbs on monday

on topic, any workshops that ppl would recommend in syd to do this?

[N-DAWG]

Well I've been on the look out for parts, mainly to have an idea of how much to spend, but now I'm thinking of buying and putting aside some of the good deals that I see.

I've found for sale a second hand RB25 Turbo from a series 2 R33, description says it came off with 90thousand kms, excellent condition with minimal shaft play. Also says seals are not leaking and in excellent condition. It also mentioned that one bolt is needed for the compressor housing as it has an R34 GTT Actuator and the original actuator bracket was used as one of the compressor cover bolts.

Excuse my newbness, but is this going to be suitable for an N/A Conversion? The item is in Brisbane and it's starting at $200, so if it's worth going for it might be the start of collecting parts I need.

Also in regards to pump and injectors, is it advisable to go for second hand bits or to replace these with new items? Given the age that the second hand bits would now be compared to 4 years ago when Dan done his conversion.

Can you go too big with injectors? I've seen some R33 GTR ones going in the for sale but I'm not sure if they'll be suitable, and if they'd be too big or not.

Thanks guys!

[666DAN]

You've only got a few choices with the R34 injectors..second hand GTT ones, still a good choice and conveniently cheap. New 480's or bigger which will be a waste. Or new fuel rail setup - $$$

The fact they use top-feeds of a type unlike any other skyline model is a pain.

90K on a turbo is a little bit, but saying that I still saw 70K on top of the one I had and the seals weren't too bad towards the end.

[N-DAWG]

I see, I'll keep an eye out for R34 Injectors then.

So what would be the ideal mileage for a second hand turbo for this application? Or would it be best to go for a new one to be on the safe side?

This one I'm looking at currently has 0 bids and starting at $200.

I'd be relying on the good will of the seller as I won't actually be having all the parts etc.. on for some time.

With the ECU, is the Greddy eManage still the most suitable for an R34 Auto Turbo Conversion? What would be the benefit in going for an eManage Ultimate over the standard eManage Blue?

[R33_Dude]

Well while my car is sitting in the shed getting slowly put back together I have been considering my options engine wise.

One half of me wants an all out NA engine build, with individual throttle bodies, extractors, up the compression a tad etc for maybe a 40% increase atw.

The other half says well that's a fantastic idea and all but the cost is huge. For the same money I could do a turbo swap, sort out my suspension and install bigger brakes.

So I've tried pricing things up for a turbo conversion, bearing in mind its an auto R33.

$250 for a low kilometer RB25DET turbo.

$700 odd for Greddy Emanage

$100 for a standard R33 RB25DET intercooler

$200 for turbo manifold

$90 for a dump pipe

$100 for injectors

free piping

free cat back

free crossover

which makes the total around 1500 odd.

Mechanically I am capable of doing this myself if a few things are explained to me.

My questions are:

Being as its an auto will Emanage Ultimate be neccessary?

How much of a pain in the ass is Emanage to install?

what is the easiest way to tap into oil and water? You mentioned that the heater hose is an option.

and most importantly have I forgotten anything?

EDIT: oh and I have a fuel pump and pressure regulator....

Edited September 22, 2008 by R33_Dude

[666DAN]

With the auto 25GT you can actually get away with a PFC, the shift logic ECU is built into the car not the ECU, so taking out the ECU the car can still shift

The GT-t doesn't have this luxury

For the turbo if you get it for under $250 I wouldn't be concerned with age, you'll still get your $$ out of it.

For the R33, just grab an R33 GTSt auto ECU, the tune will be pretty much spot on for when you swap the bits over, you save $600+ dollars and installation of the e-manage Your list looks good, yep water can be taken from the heater hose on the firewall, and returned back to a lower pressure part of the system. I know the GReddy turbo upgrade instructions normally cover this quite well. Same for the oil, T-piece from the oil pressure sensor and use that as a feed, then the return just goes to the sump via the alloy section just above the sump-pan.

[R33_Dude]

Well that actually brings my costs down quite a bit.

Providing the tune for a stock GTS-T ecu is spot on I shouldn't really have any problems - and it makes it pretty much plug and play!

I have read the whole of this thread but just double checking by using this ecu is my reliability compromised? It does need to be quite reliable being as its normally my daily driver.

[dori34]

dan, what would you recommend for a R34 5spd NA+T, Power FC or Emanage Blue (will i need to purchase the optional ignition signal adaptor) ?

im tossing up which one to get..

if the emanage will do the job and do it properly without the motor going kaboom then ill consider it as its definately a cheaper option...

this is my current mod list:

Series 2 Rb25 steel wheel turbo + stock manifold + braided oil & water lines $450-$500

FMIC $400

turbo back 3" exhaust $500

GTT injectors $200

walbro fuel pump $150

thinking of a EBC (profec B 2) or would a bleed valve be a better option ? $300 (EBC) $50 (bleed valve)

Emanage with ignition&injector harnesses OR power FC $400 (emanage), $1000 (PFC)

will most likely change the headgasket to a new aftermarket one of same thickness to prevent any future problems

going to try run 9 or 10 psi. will have to see how it goes on the dyno and if the tuner approves of this. if pistons/rods let go then i will change to forgies.

any other recommendations ?

Cheers

Edited September 23, 2008 by dori32

[666DAN]

Well that actually brings my costs down quite a bit.

Providing the tune for a stock GTS-T ecu is spot on I shouldn't really have any problems - and it makes it pretty much plug and play!

I have read the whole of this thread but just double checking by using this ecu is my reliability compromised? It does need to be quite reliable being as its normally my daily driver.

You'll find using the stock ECU, if you've got all the matching GTSt bits (pump, fuel, injectors reg etc etc) the tune will be pretty much bang-on with respect to fuel; as stock it runs rich anyway, this will offset the more advanced timing to compression ratio you have. It's a winning combo all round, you can get it on the dyno and still advance/retard the CAS as well to get things fine tuned

[666DAN]

OK Dori,

realistically if you are replacing the head-gasket, don't overlook getting a thicker (metal) one to drop the compression....if you're changing it you may as well lose some compression. The R34's don't like too much timing advance and you'll find trying to push more than 8psi your tuner is going to have to know their shit.

It may be worth fitting an adjustable cam gear on the exhaust side, run that at a few degrees retarded (increase valve overlap) and advance the CAS so base timing is corrected and you'll stave off detonation a bit more as well, nice little mod IMHO that can cater for extra boost.

I'd have a go at seeing what pressure the stock actuator holds firstly, depending on the exhaust system it may happily sit at 8-10psi with no boost control. If you're having issues getting the pressure, then look at a bleed valve over a controller, the boost controller will spool the turbo about 500rpm quicker and may make the car too torquey (if that could be classed as a problem)...but that's only if you don't do the head gasket

[R33_Dude]

Well then, I am on the hunt for a R33 GTS-T ecu... If anyone knows of the location of one let me know!

[N-DAWG]

Well then, I am on the hunt for a R33 GTS-T ecu... If anyone knows of the location of one let me know!

There's one in the Gong if you're local there or in Syd.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/rb25det-genuine-ecu...1QQcmdZViewItem

[666DAN]

R33 Dude...our FS section has loads of them

this one is a good price - http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Sa...&hl=r33+ecu

[N-DAWG]

I've been down to PerFOURmance this arvo, spoke to Robin, was very helpful with explaining everything.

All I need to do now is get the parts together! If anyone has second hand parts let me know

[dori34]

OK Dori,

realistically if you are replacing the head-gasket, don't overlook getting a thicker (metal) one to drop the compression....if you're changing it you may as well lose some compression. The R34's don't like too much timing advance and you'll find trying to push more than 8psi your tuner is going to have to know their shit.

It may be worth fitting an adjustable cam gear on the exhaust side, run that at a few degrees retarded (increase valve overlap) and advance the CAS so base timing is corrected and you'll stave off detonation a bit more as well, nice little mod IMHO that can cater for extra boost.

I'd have a go at seeing what pressure the stock actuator holds firstly, depending on the exhaust system it may happily sit at 8-10psi with no boost control. If you're having issues getting the pressure, then look at a bleed valve over a controller, the boost controller will spool the turbo about 500rpm quicker and may make the car too torquey (if that could be classed as a problem)...but that's only if you don't do the head gasket

Thanks for the reply dan.

im only changing gasket to a new one just to be safe but i probably wont even do it unless the gasket blows.

i thought about running a cam gear but i thought it wouldn't do much but since you say it would be good to retard it abit then ill definately consider that on the mod list considering theyre cheap these days anyway.

"make the turbo spool 500rpm quicker" - i want it to be as torquey as it can since it lacks in boost, it will make up in torque & response

gotta find a confident tuner to do this. and as stated in the PM regarding the emanage issue. ill speak to a few tuners about that and see if they know what to do, if they never heard of it then they havent done too much R34s lol.

[R33_Dude]

Well I have all the pieces I need now! I was surprised by how quick I got a response for the parts. I'll go pick them up in a couple of weeks and pay the good man and then the turbo upgrade can begin! Its all worked out at about half the price I calculated too which is even better.

So if I add to my shopping list a good boost controller I should still be under budget. I'll take pics of how it goes and I'll keep you all posted....

[N-DAWG]

That WAS quick! Well done! What boost controller are you looking at?

I'm keen to see the pics after it's done Are you doing exhaust together or later on?

I might put up my WTB thread soon. I"m hopefully about to get a winning bid on a brand new e-Manage Blue

I'm going to go with the FMIC, just to keep things on the safe side. Is it worth going for the aftermarket front and dump pipes? Or keep it stock?

I was looking at the Flyn 2 in 1 front/dump pipe. Is this going to be suitable for this? Would there be any issues with an R33 Turbo and an R34 front/dump pipe, or should I be able to bolt up the aftermarket pipe to an R33 turbo?

I'm hoping to be abel to get an R34 Turbo, but depends on what I can get though.

Edited September 25, 2008 by N-DAWG

[R33_Dude]

That WAS quick! Well done! What boost controller are you looking at?

I'm keen to see the pics after it's done Are you doing exhaust together or later on?

I might put up my WTB thread soon. I've just managed to get a winning bid on a brand new e-Manage Blue

I'm going to go with the FMIC, just to keep things on the safe side. Is it worth going for the aftermarket front and dump pipes? Or keep it stock?

I was looking at the Flyn 2 in 1 front/dump pipe. Is this going to be suitable for this? Would there be any issues with an R33 Turbo and an R34 front/dump pipe, or should I be able to bolt up the aftermarket pipe to an R33 turbo?

I'm hoping to be abel to get an R34 Turbo, but depends on what I can get though.

Well I am not entirely sure on the boost controller front, not sure what brand/model. Need to do some more research.

The exhaust I can get built for free thanks to family connections. Mandrel bent mild steel. Yummy.

I am probably going to end up using an R34 intercooler, should be plenty thick enough for low boost applications and upgrade to a FMIC when I get some more cash saved up however that would ruin the sleeper look wouldn't it?

The only thing I am worried about is tapping into the sump for the oil return but I could get someone to have a look at that for me (my father most likely who just happens to be a engineer).

It will probably take the best part of two months to get all the parts and then get time off to work on the conversion (damn uni exams!).

Once my car is back on the road I'll make a thread about the entire process.

[N-DAWG]

Yeah I'm going to collect parts for and wait till I can be without the car for the conversion.

free mandrel zorst! Wish I had those connections

I was thinking the same with the FMIC with not wanting to lose the sleeper look...Robin suggested a very light spray of black paint and that will help it blend in a bit. Whilst sleeper look is good, it's also good not to overheat anything I guess. Besides most Skylines are almost assumed to be turbo by non-enthusiasts.

Edit: Just won the e-Manage Blue at $300!

Edited September 25, 2008 by N-DAWG

[666DAN]

Good score with the e-manage. For simplicity sake, make sure you use an R34 dump on and R34 and an R33 dump on the r33...mainly for firewall clearance, that's all.