How to turbo your N/A

[dori34]

its max power out is in between a garret 2871 and 3071r .

turbonetics t3 turbo with stage 2 rear housing. should be good for around 230-250 rwkw depend how hard i push it.

pics up when it arrives.

injectors shud be on its way too.

Edited October 21, 2008 by dori32

[Vik]

Ladies one quick question..

Can you have any turbo to do this? OR does it have to specifically be a GTT factory turbo.

Because if you get like a better turbo then the GTT, wont you have to like upgrade certain parts and components ?

Like Dori said, his getting a turbo that can put out 200kw+ ..

Do you need to mod anything else to run it ?

And will it whistle or be a sleeper?

MRXTCZ

[N-DAWG]

The power you make is going to be limited by how much fuel, air and spark you can achieve, and how strong you can build the engine to support the power made.

Keeping the engine standard means you'll only be able to make so much power, at least without breaking anything.

The type of turbo used can effect how quickly it spools up and how efficiently it performs. The size of the rear housing will effect how efficiently the turbo spools.

By what Dori has said, the turbo will be suitable for his needs and perform optimally for the power he can ideally expect from a high comp turbo conversion.

An R34GTT Turbo will probably be your best choice for converting an N/A R34 on a budget. I'll be using an R33 Series 2 Turbo. You'll need one that is T3 Flanged. Stick with an R33 or R34 turbo and you should be right and you can hopefully just bolt up a front/dump pipe to connect to your cat and catback.

If you want to push big figures and run bigger turbos, then yes you will need to start upgrading the engine to handle it all, and of course with an N/A car a number of other things will need to be addressed.

If you put an atmo BOV and a pod filter etc.. then yes it will whistle and make the wooshy noises. Also expect even more police attention. If you keep a plumback and keep air intake relatively stock it should stay fairly sleeperish. Though I have heard high comp turbo skylines reffered to as sounding like steam trains.

PS. Catch can arrived today, thanks Dori

[Vik]

So please enlighten me, Difference between a Plumb Back and an ATMO BOV.

What the hell does a Plumb Back look like? I know a normal loud BOV is just added to the intercooler pipe or something..

(been checkin' out mates rides .. lol )

MRXTCZ

[N-DAWG]

When the throttle closes (ie. taking foot of accellarator) the air in the intake needs to go somewhere. Without a BOV it will go back to the turbo and out the air filter, which causes it to backspin and surge (youtube compressor surge). A BOV vents this pressure to protect the turbo. Also air going back out the turbo means more air is passing through the AFM causing more fuel to be used.

An atmospheric BOV vents the air to atmosphere and thus creating the loud PSHH sound. A plumback BOV is plumbed back into the piping and does not vent to the atmosphere.

Vent to atmospehere is illegal as the air hasn't passed through the cat converter. I think EPA noise emissions may come into it somewhere. A lot of the time it's a matter of luck as to whether cops pull you up for it.

I'm going to play it safe and go with a plumback, I also like the idea of not attracting too much attention to myself.

You can get BOVs that you can switch between Atmo / Plumback / or part way between, however this may not be the best thing for tuning, and in most states, if BOV can be altered to run Atmo even if it is running plumback at the time, it is still defectable.

[dori34]

N-DAWG, good to hear u received it

yeah ive got all the supporting mods so it should be able to handle the power without any dramas.

im going to be using a stock GTR bov and im going to be running a external gate as well :lol:

like nate has said, if your on a real tight budget, then stock parts from a R33/34 will be perfect

stock ehxuast, stock smic, stock turbo, stock piping & bov etc, only aftermarket thing would be ECU.

got my oil cooler shiet ready to go. cant wait.

[N-DAWG]

Where'd you pick up the GTR BOV from? and how much and are there any more where it came from?

As for exhaust, I've read about someone having done a N/A Turbo conversion on a R33 but had compressor surge until they fitted a bigger cat back.

When you say supporting mods...?

[Vik]

Ahh i see, does the plumb back BOV make any venting noise what so ever?

Or will the poddy make the stereotypical Turbo noise ?

One quick question, my mates got a S14 SR20DET, and the mechanic said his running free boost.. what the hell ?

MRXTCZ

[dori34]

got it off my mate, none left sorry..

supporting mods such as bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, fpr, 3" turboback exhaust & FMIC kit.

i may be able to hit the power with standard gtt injectors but if not will def have to get 550cc or gtr injectors with custom rail.

[N-DAWG]

But you're still only going to be able to push the DE engine so far though before you risk melting pistons..or at least that's how I perceive it.

My FMIC arrived today, got everything but the BOV, Filter and I'll probably need turbo inlet piping.

[N-DAWG]

Turbo inlet pipe is sorted now, all that remains is the pod filter and cross pipe with BOV.

I've been getting a few more quotes on labour and tuning, and it's suprising to see labour ranging between $880 and anywhere up to close to two grand! I also didn't realise how much it would cost to have an emanage fitted!

Should I expect to pay between $350 and $380 for install of an emanage blue? Tuning I've been told around $400 from Hi-Power Racing in slacks creek.

Has anyone had work done before at Option Garage? or is this the type of question not to ask on the forum...

I ask as they've given me the best price so far for the labour side of things, it just means towing the car back down to slacks creek for the tuning, and having to deal with public transport to work at coopers plains...so I'm weighing up whether it's worth the saving, or get it all done at the same place.

Any suggestions guys?

[dori34]

dont have a good friend whos a mechanic that u 2 can put it together after hours and on weekends?

you will save a shiet load that way.

i dunno about qld but down in syd i got quoted ranging from 380-600 for install & tune emanage

emanage u can wire it in urself if you follow the intrusctions.

wytsky on this forum is running a rb25de+t and is pushing over 12psi and he has around 660nM of torque and at fat ass dyno curve. im suprised myself i saw him push that much thru a DE and according to his tuner its safe & havent had a single drama since 6/7months ago

[N-DAWG]

Unfortunately I don't know too many people up in Brissy / Qld :S It is a lot of $$$ it's actually getting above the budget I expected.

I could have a go at fitting the emanage myself, but I would rather leave engine computer wiring to a professional just to keep peace of mind I guess. With an emanage, how do you go about setting defaults so that I can still drive around in it with it hooked up? It would save a few hundred easily if I did havea crack at it.

I'm actually thinking whether to go ahead with using the emanage after being recommended using an Adaptronic entry level unit, but I don't know too much about these, and then I'd have to try and sell my emanage blue and ignition harness that I've already bought.

That sounds pretty impressive with the 12psi set up on a DE! I still don't know that I'd be wanting to push that much with mine, given that it's recommended to stay at around 7PSI..

[dori34]

with the emanage, you will have to load a map into it or else it won't run, esp if u buy it 2nd hand, it will have a map on it for the previous car

OR what you can do is drive to tuner with stock ecu (will run like shiet) and just wire it outside his workshop

yeah, after some recalculations, mine went over budget too and i realised its still worth it as im not using stock parts & if im going to do it, might as well do the upgrades cause there is no point in doing stock parts & then im going to change it down the track. so technically im saving $$ in labour & in the long run.

im going to be sticking with the emanage unless i find a PFC for dirt cheap (like under $800 lol) which will be easier but $$ dont justify for them when an emanage is only $500 & under for the unit + all harnesses.

[N-DAWG]

True true... Well my eManage was second hand, but unused so it will have nothing on it at all, and hey i got the eManage for $300 + $50 odd dollars for the ignition harness and $20 freight, so I'm still ahead there.

Your certainly right, it's still worth it. When I look at spending the same dollars on keeping it N/A at least half my budget is eaten up in a complete exhaust with extractors. Add cams + labour + inevitable engine management, and it's still not going to touch a DE+t. Ah well I made the decision to modify, I live with the consequences of the costs lol After a few months I won't be missing the money..hell as soon as I drive it out the drive way and feel the difference it will be a long gone thought hehe.

Given the cost of tuning though, I think I may just fork out the exta to at least do a catback. I'd find a second hand one, but good luck finding a high flowing 3" catback for a 4 door R34

So when are you looking at completing yoru conversion dori?

[Vik]

Boys, do me a favour.

State what parts you got and what price you paid please.

I know you guys gave me a shopping list before, but i see that some prices have changed since.

So i can start buying the little bits and peices here and there. and save for the bigger ones down the track.

MRXTCZ

[dori34]

True true... Well my eManage was second hand, but unused so it will have nothing on it at all, and hey i got the eManage for $300 + $50 odd dollars for the ignition harness and $20 freight, so I'm still ahead there.

Your certainly right, it's still worth it. When I look at spending the same dollars on keeping it N/A at least half my budget is eaten up in a complete exhaust with extractors. Add cams + labour + inevitable engine management, and it's still not going to touch a DE+t. Ah well I made the decision to modify, I live with the consequences of the costs lol After a few months I won't be missing the money..hell as soon as I drive it out the drive way and feel the difference it will be a long gone thought hehe.

Given the cost of tuning though, I think I may just fork out the exta to at least do a catback. I'd find a second hand one, but good luck finding a high flowing 3" catback for a 4 door R34

So when are you looking at completing yoru conversion dori?

thats right! as soon as you hit boost, all the money dramas in the past u spent on the car is long gone! haha

try a R33 catback (more common) and just modify the hanger & flange to connect to the cat

first quarter of next year

Boys, do me a favour.

State what parts you got and what price you paid please.

I know you guys gave me a shopping list before, but i see that some prices have changed since.

So i can start buying the little bits and peices here and there. and save for the bigger ones down the track.

MRXTCZ

well here's what im using this is my rough price breakdown & what im expecting to pay/paid for them already.

turbonetics t3 stage2 turbo: $500 !

standard manifold: $20 !

modify manifold for ext gate opening: $100-$120~

HKS 38mm external gate: $250~

braided lines: $150

JJR fmic & (stock) intake: $350-$450

Emanage (with all extra harnesses): $450 OR PFC: $1000~

GTT injectors: $50 !

GTR fpr: $50-$70 !

GFB/Turbosmart bleed valve: $20-$40~

greddy turbo timer: $50~ !

autogauge boost gauge: $50~ !

(2nd hand jobby with JJR 2in1 front/dump combo) 3" turboback exhaust : $550

tomei exhaust cam gear: $200

walbro fuel pump: $150 !

perma-cool oil cooler kit: $130 !

+ random miscellaneous bullshiet like clamps,bolts,vaccum lines, hoses etc

install i get mates rates as my good friend is a mechanic, ill say around $500-$700

tune: $450-$650

ill most likely go to www.powertune.com.au to get my car tuned there as ive only heard good things about them + theyre local too.

everything with ! next to it is what i've got already so im more then 50% there.

hope this helps mrxtc

Edited October 25, 2008 by dori32

[N-DAWG]

Some of my parts may not be the lowest price, but some I took as they weren't as common to come buy:

- R33 Series 2 Turbo w/ Actuator removed at 97,000kms with barely to no shaft play $230 Posted from Albury

- RB25DET Factory Manifold and R34 GTT NEO Injectors $250 Posted for both (you can probably pick up cheaper but I took the offer for both to save hassle

- Walbro GSS 342 or Bosch 040? The Walbro is a cheaper option and still very good from what I've read. It will flow up to 500HP. Walbro is $145 posted from ebay Performance World Store. They import direct from US and thus have cheaper prices.

- Second Hand Turbosmart Single Stage Boost Controller $100 from Quigga on Nissan Silvia

- Brand New sealed packaging Braided Line Kit $100 from Quigga on Nissan Silvia

- Second Hand Oil Catch Can $10 posted from Dori32, what a champ he is!

- Monsta Front Mount Intercooler Kit $306 Posted. You can probably just go with a SMIC but for the extra couple of hundred, the peace of mind having cooler air, and the power gain, just go a FMIC. Tuning costs enough to rule out upgrading later.

- JJR Front / Dump Pipe $225? Posted from Just Jap

- eManage Unused $320 Posted from Perth

- eMangae Ignition Harness $60 odd dollars from N*Power on eBay, though if you search for their website you can save around $10 not going via ebay

- Turbo Inlet with Plumback Piping I've been given offer of $55 posted, you might be able to find cheaper though. Yo-Yo is selling a silicon one for around $100, I'm thinking of just getting the factory one and be done with it

- Alloy cross pipe with BOV, see if you can find a factory one. I've been quoted by one of the workshops who want to do the work on my car $110 for a custom job with an R33 Factory BOV, that gives an idea.

- Air filter. With an FMIC, unless the piping allows, you can pretty much rule out a factory induction box. However much you're willing to spend on a pod filter. I'm thinking of going for an Apexi Item, though I'm thinking of doing a bit of reading into the Saber ones. Just get something that flows well, but cleans well too! Plenty of high flowing ones, even from the big jap brands, but when tested don't filter too well! The cheap 3A Racing pod filter is said to both filter well and flow exceptionally, though I've heard that they don't use the best glues in their pods.

- Exhaust, up to you which way you want to go with it. A jap brand catback is certainly going to cost a lot more. I believe 3" Mandrel is the way to go, though 666DAN used a 2.75" iirc? I'm not sure which is the better way to go between these two piping diameters when it comes to an N/A Turbo. How far you take the exhaust though, cat converters, resonators, what type of tip etc... will dictate the price.

- Labour: Unless someone can help you out with that, to fit the above (not incl. exhaust) I've been quoted:

Garage X: $880

Garage Y: $1100ish

Garage Z: 1300ish not including FMIC

and one place quoted me:

Manifold, Turbo and dump install: $595

Injectors install: $340

Fuel pump install: $170

Boost controller install: $85

Coolant: $30

Basic service with Mobil S2000 10W40: $120

Intercooler kit install: $340

Add $500 for Miscellaneous other bits and pieces needed to support the turbo

conversion.

And that was just to give an "idea".

- ECU and Tuning: Allow $350-380 it seems to get a piggy back fitted (more work splicing wires is what I've been told), and for tuning around $400 though one garage said they'd send it to that same place and tuning would be $600, so I'm not sure what's going on there. Either way allow $400-600 for a good reputable tuner, which is what you want when it comes to tuning an N/A Turbo.

You can add up that list, I really don't want to see the figure lol I've been collecting the parts for a couple of months though which is probably the way to go. Work out a plan, then parts that are hard to come by that you see at a good price, grab them! Other things like air filters and FMICs can be bought last.

- Other optional items:

- Oil Cooler Kit, if you plan on taking it on the track an oil cooler kit probably isn't a bad idea as with high compression and an engine and turbo working hard, you'd want to keep those temps within range.

- Bigger brakes - I'll certainly be upgrading my brakes later on. If you plan on taking it on the track, then it's probably a must!

- Gauges - If you want to keep an eye on boost, and temperatures. I haven't bothered too much with gauges at the moment, I will probably later on look at getting din mounted gauges just to keep an eye on boost levels and temps. I'm not interested in having gauges for the looks and for the sake of it, otherwise I'd plaster them all over the dash and A Pillar. I prefer to keep my skyline looking as much N/A as possible, besides the FMIC which makes it a bit obvious lol

Hope that helps!

[N-DAWG]

Oh I forgot Exhaust Manifold Gasket, around $110 for a genuine Nissan one.

I'm not sure what other cheaper but good options are out there for a Manifold gasket, if someone can suggest I'd like to know.

$130 for a permacool oil cooler kit? Is that including everything to be able to fit it etc..?

[dori34]

nate, yep thats including everything!

complete kit with core.

got it off a bloke on this forum.

id definately get a boost gauge to keep an eye on things

i got the standard GTT triple gauge cluster if anyone wants it

*cough nate come on, u know u want it lol