Car Cleaning/detailing

[SS8_Gohan]

The highlighted bit you wrote makes no sense... not sure where you got that from

He does all cars (if you look at his website), no one said he only does exotics. And seriously how is a detailer that doesn't do exotics better than one that does both normal and exotics.

Anyway a picture is worth 1000 words like how he detailed this R35

http://aussieexotics.com/forum/eurogloss-p...ack-5792.0.html

it's fairly straight forward. what i meant is that to point out "he has done a lot of exotics" doesn't actually give you any indication of how good a detailer is, and generally speaking these cars are looked after better than a normal car, hence a detailers life is made easier by looking after exotics exclusively. Comprende?

[gandal88]

anyone suggest one in brisbane?

[Kujotk]

If you have the time and patience you can do it yourself, you just need the right equipment, everything you need is sold by Meguires. (and no don't use Mothers unless you want your car looking worse than taking it to an old school petrol station orbital brush car wash)

Question is how many people have the time?

[domino_z]

if you are going to go through the hassle and invest the time/money in buying all the equipment and products to diy, you can do ALOT better than otc meguairs stuff

Gohan is on the money, i pay no attention to the types of cars that a detailer works on, but rather the quality of his work. The types of car a detailer works on is more to do with his marketing and branding - take case in point Paul Dalton who most people think is a god after watching the youtube videos. Reality is, we have many local detailers who are just as good if not better, but our local guys dont harp on about 25 stage washes and market themself anywhere near as well with exotic cars in every frame/pic, because well they dont exist in Aus in the same numbers, hence dont get the same exposure. Paul Dalton uses a Makita you can buy at Bunnings, no fancy Festool for anything like that - marketing over substance

i also disagree with detailers charging more for a detail just because of the car being worked on - at the end of the day, you can have soft hard to finish clear coat on a Mazda 2, it doesnt have to be a mega dollar supercar.

A local detailer quoted over 1K to detail my dad's murci (and would have ended up detailing all his supercars) and when asked why that was more than 3 times what he charged for my M3, he justified it as saying well if you can afford that type of car..... i laughed and cancelled the job. Ive since learnt to diy and cant be happier, i enjoy it as a hobby now

OP like i said, get it pro detailed, go see damien at finalinspection, and then maintain it yourself as a hobby/something to do on a free weekend

Edited September 14, 2010 by domino_z

[mxfly]

^^ Right on Sam. Hey btw it's Eugene here. I used to have the black 350Z. I buy nearly all my microfibre products from Sam as I have found they are the best quality around compared to many other sellers. Do you still sell the towels and other bits and pieces? Need to replenish my stock as I'm getting low! rofl.

I really enjoy detailing cars these days. Gives me great satisfaction on seeing the end result and especially witnessing the customers response when they see the final finish.

And congrats on the new r35 as well. Hope to have one of those babies in my garage one day.

[domino_z]

hey eugene

good to see you here, you still have the Z?

i stopped selling the MF's etc at the start of the year because i just didnt have the time anymore to run that hobby

if you need more towels, shoot me a pm and ill let you know who's got the best local deals atm

[interfooler]

Another +1 for final inspection. I wouldn't let anyone else touch my car apart from Damian from FI. Only problem is they are all the way up north!

[Kujotk]

You guys still don't get it, NO ONE SAID MARIO ONLY DOES EXOTICS *face palms himself*

Sam you should have noticed this as well, let me know if you agree or not.

Exotics like Ferrari and Lamborghini have a shocking paint work in terms of being very easy to see swirl marks, much easier to see a defect in these paint works because it is a flat paint that has nothing other than a clear coat over it. Your everyday run of the mill US and Jap cars have little bits in the paint work that make up the paint, usually it is like a glittery metalic effect that looks like the paint is made up of billions of tiny specks of paint. Exotics paint is much finer and has a permanent "wet look" to it with a very soft clear coat. Because of it's glossy/wet look surface and it's very fine paint particles it is much easier to see swirls and a hell of a lot harder to get them out.

Besides that the only reason I said he does exotics is because people trust him with their Super cars that are worth more than the average house prices in Australia. It wasn't intended to mean that he is the best detailer (even though he is definately one of the best around) it was put forward as more of a trust issue, meaning he is trusted enough to work on such rare and expensive cars so there should be no worries with him working on an R35.

Anyway his results are all you need to worry about, I couldn't care if my detailer was Hitler, as long as he does the best job possible and it is what I paid him to do.

The cars a detailer works on is not a guide to seeing how good a job he can do, but if a detailer gets repeat business from all walks of life with a range of different cars, and the proof of a great job is easily accesible on independent forums, doesn't that count for something?

I only recommended Mario because I have seen his work first hand, and I know he is bassed in Melbourne (where the op is from) I don't know why people have taken it personal saying that Damian is the better guy (whic he could be or he may not be) and then trying to discredit Mario because of the type of cars he has the opportunity to work on, that argument is flawed. I would have easily have recomended Damian as well if I knew he existed and if I knew of the quality of work he does. At the end of the day it is the result i'm after, I couldn't care who does it as long as it is a superb job.

[Kujotk]

wow my previous post ended up like an essay

[SS8_Gohan]

i see your essay and raise you...

Exotics like Ferrari and Lamborghini have a shocking paint work in terms of being very easy to see swirl marks, much easier to see a defect in these paint works because it is a flat paint that has nothing other than a clear coat over it. Your everyday run of the mill US and Jap cars have little bits in the paint work that make up the paint, usually it is like a glittery metalic effect that looks like the paint is made up of billions of tiny specks of paint. Exotics paint is much finer and has a permanent "wet look" to it with a very soft clear coat. Because of it's glossy/wet look surface and it's very fine paint particles it is much easier to see swirls and a hell of a lot harder to get them out.

whilst it's great to see people wanting to take good care of their cars etc, take them to good trades people - you're a long way off the mark with this paragraph.

Exotics are painted like any other car, primer, base colour, clear. Just the same as any Holden would be painted. You may get some hand painted action going on with different marques but the process is the same be it human or robot.

There isn't really a correlation between $$ spent on a car and flatness of paint.

Your everyday run of the mill US and Jap cars have little bits in the paint work that make up the paint, usually it is like a glittery metalic effect that looks like the paint is made up of billions of tiny specks of paint.

If you buy a solid red Hyundai, you won't be getting any 'glittery metallic' effect. If you buy a solid red Ferrari, you won't be getting any 'glittery metallic effect' - Metallic is metallic. Again, same process regardless of manufacturer. Metallic chips are added to the paint colour in order to make it..... metallic. That's it.

Exotics paint is much finer and has a permanent "wet look" to it with a very soft clear coat.

Not sure which ones you're talking about but most exotics would be on CeramiClear these days, i know Ferrari has for quite a few years (MB developed) and same for the mass luxury cars as well (bmw/audi/mercedes) - hence, CeramiClear compliant polishes. CeramiClear is the opposite of what you're saying, it's designed to be a hardier clear to withstand car ownership a easier. The exotics/luxo's have less chances of swirls,etc over a given period. The are the opposite of 'very soft clear' it's about as hard as you can get

The 'fineness' of a metallic flake (as it's known) is dependent on the desired outcome. The flake on the Nissan GV1 (Black Pearl) is very fine, compared to say the silver of a subaru or the night hawk blue of a honda where the chips appear larger, but that also results in a paint that 'pops' more. Can look absolutely fantastic and the relative coarseness of a metallic paint isn't a quality issue, it's an aesthetic choice (the coarser flake can be 'mica' chips)

There is no such thing as permanent 'wet look'. You're probably referring to how 'glossy' a paint is, but again, exotics definitely aren't going to win any gu level contests off the factory floor.

Lexus lead the way in paint anyway IMO, hardly exotic. Should see how glossy their black cars are, fantastic. Quite flat paint too from factory.

Because of it's glossy/wet look surface and it's very fine paint particles it is much easier to see swirls and a hell of a lot harder to get them out.

basically just incorrect, sorry. Swirls are swirls, besides a dead flat solid black (which you won't get from any car new), they're only going to show up more depending on colour. And considering the high end car makes on CeramiClear or a harder clear, they'll be LESS swirly than your typical mass produced car.

Given most german/exotics are on ceramiclear or a harder clear, provided you have a CeramiClear compliant polish, if anything they'll be easier to rectify than other cars. The worse culprits? Jap clear, renowned for being very soft and easily marked, can be quite sticky at times as well (you can put some of the aussie clears in the sticky boat too)

Basically, exotic paint is no different than any other car. Current crop, they are easier to maintain than say a hyundai, and won't give anywhere near as much grief detailing compared to most Jap cars.

We have gone a long way off topic here, but hopefully it's been helpful to someone.

And as the owner was wanting someone to be meticulous with his/her car? how meticulous do you want?

you'd like this one kutjotk, definitely up your alley

[Nee-san]

That black R35 GT-R will be a piece of cake to work on. I just detailed a 9 year old S15 that has never been detailed before. On top of the deep scratches from people leaning on the front left guard, there were swirls galore, paint fade from being out in the sun, acid damage from bird poo, you name it, the car had it all.

The paint correction process took me almost 10 hours to perform, but in the end, the client was elated with the results and costing half the price of what Eurogloss would charge. I must say, I'm no Mario but I can do a job just as good as he can.

What in gods name did you use, that looks fantastic !

[domino_z]

You guys still don't get it, NO ONE SAID MARIO ONLY DOES EXOTICS *face palms himself*

Sam you should have noticed this as well, let me know if you agree or not.

Exotics like Ferrari and Lamborghini have a shocking paint work in terms of being very easy to see swirl marks, much easier to see a defect in these paint works because it is a flat paint that has nothing other than a clear coat over it. Your everyday run of the mill US and Jap cars have little bits in the paint work that make up the paint, usually it is like a glittery metalic effect that looks like the paint is made up of billions of tiny specks of paint. Exotics paint is much finer and has a permanent "wet look" to it with a very soft clear coat. Because of it's glossy/wet look surface and it's very fine paint particles it is much easier to see swirls and a hell of a lot harder to get them out.

Besides that the only reason I said he does exotics is because people trust him with their Super cars that are worth more than the average house prices in Australia. It wasn't intended to mean that he is the best detailer (even though he is definately one of the best around) it was put forward as more of a trust issue, meaning he is trusted enough to work on such rare and expensive cars so there should be no worries with him working on an R35.

Anyway his results are all you need to worry about, I couldn't care if my detailer was Hitler, as long as he does the best job possible and it is what I paid him to do.

The cars a detailer works on is not a guide to seeing how good a job he can do, but if a detailer gets repeat business from all walks of life with a range of different cars, and the proof of a great job is easily accesible on independent forums, doesn't that count for something?

I only recommended Mario because I have seen his work first hand, and I know he is bassed in Melbourne (where the op is from) I don't know why people have taken it personal saying that Damian is the better guy (whic he could be or he may not be) and then trying to discredit Mario because of the type of cars he has the opportunity to work on, that argument is flawed. I would have easily have recomended Damian as well if I knew he existed and if I knew of the quality of work he does. At the end of the day it is the result i'm after, I couldn't care who does it as long as it is a superb job.

no offense dude but you're all over the place, and im hoping it's info that hasnt been fed to you by a detailer looking to charge you more

what you're describing is the difference between metallic and non-metallic paint

my GTR is non-metallic black, there are no silver specs in the paint, and yes non-metallic black is THE hardest color to keep swirl free as it shows even the slightest swirl as there are no 'silver specs' to visually hide/minimise any swirls

most car manufacturers offer both metallic and non-metallic paint colours - eg; Lambo offer both a metallic yellow and non-metallic yellow (ours is non-metallic yellow). Every car these days is then clear coated over this base colour. What you are doing when polishing is removing the very top layer of clear coat that is scratched. The base color whether it be metallic or non-metallic remains the same.

if you are working on an older ferrari like my dad's F40, that has single stage paint - there is no clear coat, so when you polish with an abbrassive you are removing the top layer of PAINT and thus this is a much more difficult paint to machine polish to prevent going right through the paint on panel edges. And to correct that paint ill happily pay for it. In fact there is a detailer in the US im trying to get to come over to detail it, and all the other cars

as for the softness of clear coat, like i said, you can get soft hard to work clear coat on a honda jazz, and typically its japanese cars that have the soft clear coat. When i had the heat lamps on my GTR correcting the clear coat, the clear was getting so soft it was micro swirling rubbing the polish residue off with a microfibre towel

most euro cars such as merc, bmw, audi, porsche now use ceramic clear coats which are rock hard in comparison, and alot more forgiving to the amateur detailer, as you can pretty much go straight to a heavy abbrassive without the risk of causing hazing with improper techniques

if a detailer is charging more to correct non-metallic colours than metallic than something's up. He/she should have the skills/lighting etc to finish down both paint types equally well

re the types of cars argument, id say both FI and Eurogloss get the same number of exotics through the door. The benefit with Mario is that he is mobile, and that may be enough for some people to decide

Edited September 14, 2010 by domino_z

[domino_z]

looks like gohan beat me to it

kujo have you seen this F40 detail?

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/fer...and-craig-reed/

Edited September 15, 2010 by domino_z

[Kujotk]

I Don't mean this to come out the wrong way Gohan, but really you look as if you are just saying things to prove me wrong regardless of what is said. Looks like if I said the sky was blue you would say it's green.

From my own "real life" personal experience and from having to study for my self about cars that most people will most likely never physically see , and from liasing with people in the trade, I stand by what I say, there is minimal information on the topic in the high end cars and I fear you have been led astray by someones made up theory (probably came from a pannel beater who hates all expensive cars) Ferrari uses their own paint, Lambo uses Audi paint (there high end paint, not the everyday A3 and A4 quality paint) When I say paint i'm refering to the whole process that makes up the paint job, not just the colour or shine of the paint. Lambo's are painted in Germany in the same line as Audi R8's Audi A7 ect... The everyday Audi's are painted literrally on a seperate line in a separate factory in Germany. They may have the same colour codes but they are not the same, a colour code is just for the colour, it has nothing to do with the clear coat that is applied afterwards (clear coat is what makes the car).

Just because the process of painting is the same primer/Base/clear coat, (actually it is more than primer/base/clear, there are positively and negatively charged particles involved aswell) does not mean it is the same paint, there is no other way to paint them.

Exotics don't have the hardest clear coat, the hardest clear coat in a car i've owned was a kia rio, but basically the car was a pure clear coat, nearly no base in it lol. And if exotics had such a hard clear coat, why is it every time you take a ferrari for a drive you will ALWAYS find a new paint chip, where as the Rio never had any chips or swirl marks (and that used to get washed by those stupid car wash places with international students who don't give a crap if the chamois falls on the floor and collects sand) Everyday cars resist swirls the most, and that is why they are so hard to correct their paint work.

I agree that exotics may be easier to detail, but that is because of it's softer clear coat, it is much easier to take out swirls and light scratches off a soft clear coat because when you are taking the swirls out, you are basically sanding back the top layer of the clear coat to reveal a fresh clear coat underneath that has not yet oxidised and has not been scratched. On the same token they are much easier to get swirls, there is no two ways about it.

You talk of Ceramiclear being used, you do know that there are different grades of Ceramiclear produced by PPG industries? If Merceedes and Ferrari were using similar paint (as you said), how come The CLS that has done more driving than my Fez has NO paint chips or swirls but the fez has light swirls and easily a dozen chips?

Please let us all know which spray shop you work at so we can avoid taking it to where ever you learnt the trade.

[Kujotk]

looks like kujo beat me to it

kujo have you seen this F40 detail?

http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/fer...and-craig-reed/

Wow how much detail did they spend on that, great read Dom thanks for that.

[domino_z]

soft clear is a bit of a double edged sword

yes it is easier to cut through the clear because its soft

but then its also even easier to cause micro marring or hazing (buffer trails) because of improper skills in how to finish/break down the polish - even moving the machine too fast can cause these on soft clears

its quite tricky and you need a fair bit more skill than the average hobbiest detailer to finish soft clear perfectly. Your process will depend on the polish used, the pads, ambient heat etc

re chips/swirls on the ferrari vs merc, that could be simply down to the panel design, not to mention countless other variables such as thickness of clear coat, different colours showing swirls more than other, diff wash techniques, etc. My GTR gets chips along the side panels whereas my front is totally chip free after 4000kms of dd. It has nothing to do with the varying thickness of clear across those panels, but rather the semi slicks kicking stones up while driving

Edited September 15, 2010 by domino_z

[Kujotk]

soft clear is a bit of a double edged sword

yes it is easier to cut through the clear because its soft

but then its also even easier to cause micro marring or hazing (buffer trails) because of improper skills in how to finish/break down the polish - even moving the machine too fast can cause these on soft clears

its quite tricky and you need a fair bit more skill than the average hobbiest detailer to finish soft clear perfectly. Your process will depend on the polish used, the pads, ambient heat etc

re chips/swirls on the ferrari vs merc, that could be simply down to the panel design, not to mention countless other variables such as thickness of clear coat, different colours showing swirls more than other, diff wash techniques, etc. My GTR gets chips along the side panels whereas my front is totally chip free after 4000kms of dd. It has nothing to do with the varying thickness of clear across those panels, but rather the semi slicks kicking stones up while driving

That is why with certain cars it isn't worth risking the job yourself if you are going to use powertools to paint correct, powertools are a saviour and a burden at the same time. Most common example is the pneumatic nut tighteners that tyre places use to tighten up your wheel nuts, ive had 2 nutts threaded on my r33 because the tyre guys don't use the guns properly.

This is when Mario and Damians extensive experience show over other smaller detailers.

Good point, the angle would be a variable for chips, still doesn't explain the swirls in the fez and no swirls in the merc, And I was them exactly the same (actually I wash the fez/lambos frist and wash the merc afterwards, so in theory the merc should have the swirls)

[domino_z]

your 360 doesnt have ceramic clear, that's why

im not sure what Gohan inferred, but i havent heard of ferrari using ceramic clears - if they did now, it would only be the very latest stuff, like califnornia onwards

[Kujotk]

no offense dude but you're all over the place, and im hoping it's info that hasnt been fed to you by a detailer looking to charge you more

what you're describing is the difference between metallic and non-metallic paint

my GTR is non-metallic black, there are no silver specs in the paint, and yes non-metallic black is THE hardest color to keep swirl free as it shows even the slightest swirl as there are no 'silver specs' to visually hide/minimise any swirls

most car manufacturers offer both metallic and non-metallic paint colours - eg; Lambo offer both a metallic yellow and non-metallic yellow (ours is non-metallic yellow). Every car these days is then clear coated over this base colour. What you are doing when polishing is removing the very top layer of clear coat that is scratched. The base color whether it be metallic or non-metallic remains the same.

I can not think of a standard Factory Ferrari paint job (untill the last 2 years) that has metalic paint except for Gregorio Silver.

Lambo is different as they are influenced heavily by Audi (which is a good thing).

I only brought up the metalic paint because generally Exotics haven't really had metalic paint untill recently, and the fact that as you said there is no where for the scratches to hide really means there is less chance of getting away with an amature job.

Yay sun's out, i'm going to see what the state of my swirls are atm

[Kujotk]

your 360 doesnt have ceramic clear, that's why

im not sure what Gohan inferred, but i havent heard of ferrari using ceramic clears - if they did now, it would only be the very latest stuff, like califnornia onwards

Makes sense with the 360, i'm not sure if they use ceramic clear coats yet, makes sense that they should if the technology is available.