New bilstein/Kings setup: review

[JaseR33]

Can someone please tell me what the standard centre of wheel to guard measurements are? My car's lowered and i need new shocks but was told that Bilsteins won't be guaranteed to work well if the car is lower than standard by 50mm.

[sidewaymambo]

get a quote from some where west sydney for $295, cheers. PM me if you are interested.

[Anquetil]

SLY33, your car looks sooo sexy!

Would like to see some more pics?

[BenA31]

thanks for the info SLY33, think i'll be getting the same setup now from reading what you've said, plus its about wot i wanted to spend. Should basically be the same for a R32 right?

what was the actual model name/number for the bilstein shocks??

[Sydneykid]

Hi Jase, try looking here for the R33 GTST article, it has heights....

www.whiteline.com.au

[EnricoPalazzo]

funny that your tiens wer dissapointing. would u care to elaborate more on the feel difference and performancce difference between the 2?

I have tiens, and i think they handle great. ive had fellow forum member steve in my car who said my suspension is awesome? Maybe i was lucky. Maybe u wer unlucky with a bad bunch of suss?

[sidewaymambo]

Put on this way, as what Sly33 said (quoted), that's how he feel..also some people might feel stock suspension just perfect to them..

It might be a good idea to say here that everyones perception of what good handling/suspension is can be different! My car is a pure street car and i require it to handle like one, and get the most out of the roads it gets used on. Some people may like their street car to handle like a track car. I say this as the guy that bought my teins is happy with them! I would hate for someone to go and buy my setup and not be happy with it. I think the best idea is to organise a ride in a skyline with the suspension you are considering, if possible. With the forum as a base it shouldnt be too hard to catch up with ppl on a cruise etc.

funny that your tiens wer dissapointing. would u care to elaborate more on the feel difference and performancce difference between the 2?  

I have tiens, and i think they handle great. ive had fellow forum member steve in my car who said my suspension is awesome? Maybe i was lucky. Maybe u wer unlucky with a bad bunch of suss?

[EnricoPalazzo]

wat im gettin at is that hes experienced both tiens and bilsteins. i was hoping for a more detailed reasonin in the difference of the 2.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Enricho, you want a reason, well with Bilsteins you get to select the spring rate. You can choose a spring designed for the roads you drive on. With Teins you don't get any choice. You get the Japanese spring rate, designed for Japanese roads, designed for Japanese speed limits.

I will bet you the Tein spring rate is at least double the standard spring rate. No local spring manufacturer would think of doing that 'cause they know the local conditions are not contusive to it.

I will bet you the Tein springs are designed to limit the anti roll, on their own. Tein don't ever allow for the thought you might be smarter than that and upgrade the stabiliser bars.

I will bet the Teins are designed to limit the dive under brakes and the squat under acceleration. Tein don't ever allow for the thought you might be smarter than that and use a set of pineapples in the rear to limit the squat and increase the caster in the front to limit the dive.

Bottom line, I will bet you the Tein spring rate is at least 50% higher than the local spring manufacturers would ever recommend for our conditions.

So much for springs, would you like me to get into Tein shock absorbers?

[SLY33]

wow this thread has been busy! i havent been here for a while...

qikshift, you said you wanted your arches to be on the tyre front and rear? if you did this your car wouldnt be level, and would have a bit of a forward rake. As i believe that to get the car (sill panel or whatever) truly level, then the rear arch sits a bit lower than the front one. My car is dead level, and the rears are more under the guards than the fronts.

Anyone correct me if im wrong!

Enrico, so many used teins come in from japan, and im sure that many have different springs in them (ie yours must be softer than mine were) Also you have no idea what has been done to the internal valving. I got literally NO travel! the car felt SOLID! and the car bounced rather than absorbed, that would be my elaboration. Get the car on a DEAD FLAT PERFECT road, and im sure they would be awesome, but there arent many of those around my house! Now that im in sydney, guys the roads are SHIT here!! bloody potholes ! But as i mentioned, your teins could have completely different characteristics than mine. You were obviouisly luckier than me with your purchase! All tein HA's may have been created equal, but by the time they get here they may be completely different! Im not bagging teins, as i know they are excelent suspension, my point is that 2nd hand ones can be a gamble. But still i think the fact that jap suss wasnt designed for jap roads cant really be argued, but it doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is that you are happy with them!

Sydneykid, you are always correct. The springs in my car were easily more than DOUBLE that of the kings. Somewhere in the region of 500lb! as opposed to under 200lb!!!

Crooser, happy to hear that your happy with the new combo!

Skipy12, sorry dont know about 32s, also i dont know the model number off the top of my head, id have to get under the car. but bilstein sports i think is what they are.

A point to anyone considering RESETTING SPRINGS. I did it with my kings, and i wouldnt really recommend it. When i put them in first they were perfect. Then they did the usual settle a bit lower after a bit of driving, still JUST fine. Then they sagged a little bit lower, now they are JUST too low! Point being that i had them reset 20mm lower, totalling 45mm from stock, but with the sagging i reckon its they are about 30mm lower =>55mm lower than stock. I think the resetting isnt good as the heating/cooling of the spring has an effect on the metal or something. As when new, the Kings didnt sag after they settled. It was ok in adelaide, but with these sydney roads here i think ill have to bump the height up! Gonna just machine the shocks and raise the spring seat.

cheers all!

[SLY33]

thanks for the compliments guys, it turned out exactly how i wanted, very happy with the end result, as there were MANY MANY sleepless nights deciding on rim styles, colour and bodykits! After i gave the go ahead to the painter for the colour i actually had a nightmare that it turned out looking aweful! Woke up and went "oh sh1t, maybe i shouldnt get pearl!" I was very relieved to see it turn out nice!

Have you seen the before picture?! i think i may have posted it somewhere before.. I could go offroad back then!

Also i found a car in the UAS car park that had the kit i wanted, and photoshopped the colours i was thinking of. I put my rims on it and chopped off the GTR wing.

[EnricoPalazzo]

im in no way disagreeing that the bilstiens are an awesome set of suss. im also not disagreeing about the cons of tiens. man i know that they shit me big time when i am driving home from work and can feel every little bump on the road. However when i want to go down the gorge or watever, the car handles awesome. For this reason, i put up with them.

[rs73]

Sly33,

Is your bilstein rear shocks has adjustable knob that can be accessed through the parcel shelf or do they have to be removed from the car to be adjusted?

When I got my whiteline kit I was told Bilstein has stopped making R33 shocks so could yours be the last batch they imported? Also considering Bilstein shocks need regular overhaul every 2 yrs, I went along with the maintenance-free Koni shocks as supplied by whiteline. I couldn't complain the ride was better even as said by a professional race car driver/instructor when he had a ride in my car recently. I was told that Bilstein will ride better than Koni however it needs regular maintenance.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Enrico, this is a helping forum as far as I am concerned not a knocking forum. I believe you can have both great handling and a comfortable ride.

You should consider buying a set of softer rate springs (about $300) to replace the overly stiff Tein ones. Whiteline can make them up for whatever rate you want to fit the Tein shocks. You could possibly sell the Tein springs for almost that much, thus not a lot of net cost.

Then I would suggest a set of Whiteline adjustable stabiliser bars. You can then balance the car to your liking. Cost is around $450 fitted.

If you haven't already done it, a set of adjustable radius rod bushes for some more front caster will improve the front end grip no end. I would also add a set of front and rear camber adjusters and a set of rear sub frame bushes (pineapples) to adjust the rear anti squat. All that is around $300 inc wheel alignment.

If you do all of the above, I will bet you that your car will ride a hell of a lot better and be much faster "down the gorge".

Hi rs73, this thread was Bilstein related so I restricted my comments to that brand. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with Konis in a Skyline, Bilsteins have some advantages and Konis have some advantages. Both are way better than any Japanese made shock absorber I have experienced.

Hope that adds some more to this interesting thread.

[EnricoPalazzo]

Whos knocking???? What the hell does that mean? I was just wondering what the main differences in feel are. I know slys car is about 1000 times better then mine. Im kinda confused now at ur comments. And i know what this forum is about, Ive been here the same amount of time if not longer then u.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Enrico. I was the one knocking. Me! I'm the guilty one. Not you.

I always try and do positive posts when I can and I thought my previous post might have been construed as being too negative. All I was trying to do in the last post was show a way out for people who may want to improve things without doing everything all over again.

I am sorry if it appeared as though I was picking on you, ‘cause I wasn't.

[Steve]

SK, what do you consider the optimum spring rate for an R33. It is a daily driver, but I like to punt it hard when the opportunity presents itself. I have had some pretty bad understeer of late. I have upgraded from castor bushes to castor rods, which helps. I have also upgraded my diff to a 2 way mechanical and have front and rear camber arms on the way, but I cant help but feel my springs are too soft. I am using ohlins shocks, and have them adjusted nicely (now, but earlier:)).

Any advice would be good, as I feel the springs are really letting me down, the car just doesnt feel as tight as it should when pushed hard.

EDIT: also, could you suggest an optimum ride height?

[craz0]

I contacted Whiteline about there Bilstein Shocks and they told me that they had none left in stock and that they will have to get them from somebody else in Australia to fill my order, not that there's anything wrong with that but I thought that Whiteline got Bilstein Shocks made up to there dampened rates? so how can this be passable if they are getting them of other stores to fill our orders? considering everyone in Australia know has to get together to make one big order from Bilstein.

Or have I got it wrong do Whiteline get there springs made to suite Bilstein standard Shocks?

[rs73]

I think what they mean is sometimes others overstock them from previous shipment, maybe they get a deal to get them to supply your order...?

[Sydneykid]

Hi crazo, as far as I know Whiteline buy the Bilsteins from the Australia Bilstein agents and then revalve them to suite. They don't come from Germany already revalved. So I guess it doesn't matter where they get them from, as long as they revalve them for their spring rates.

Hi Steve, optimum ride height for an R33 GTST is around 345 to 350 mm from the centre of wheel to the guard, both front and rear. You can feel the difference moving the rear ride height up and down by 10 mm. Lower = less oversteer.

Springs rates are a personal choice and rather dependant on what else you have done. I run fairly large stabiliser bars and plenty of caster in the front (8 degrees) and anti squat in the rear (30%). The front anti roll bar is a 27 mm adjustable one and the rear is either a 22 mm or a 24 mm adjustable (22 mm in the rain). Camber is 3 degrees negative on the front and 1.5 degrees negative on the back. That's a bit extreme for a road only car, where you would run maybe as little as 1 degree negative on the front and 0.5 degree on the rear.

With that set up we run 450 lb front springs and 250 lb rears on high speed circuits in the dry. On low speed circuits, or in the wet, around 350 lb fronts and 200 lb rears. I think the wet spring rates would be good on a road car.

The Ohlins will have sufficient dampening to control those sorts of spring and stabiliser bar rates.

Hope that helps