New bilstein/Kings setup: review

[sidewaymambo]

HI, Gary

Does it mean that only whiteline revalve the bilstein to suit there spring? therefore if I bought my bilstien from someone else with whiteline spring will have different effect?

thanks

[sidewaymambo]

SLY33..

I just wondering..will there any chance we can meet up, since you both are in Sydney..I'd like to get an idea how the match pair work...thansk

[EnricoPalazzo]

Steve, I feel my cars handling isnt tight aswell. I know uve done more suss mods then me, yet the car feels very unpredictable at times and its hard to push hard around some corners, yet in some others, it feels great.

My mods are so far only tien HAs, Cusco front stut brace and front blocks.

Do r33 gtst come standard with strut bars under the car front and rear as i also have them.

Whats lettin me down most is that my diff open wheels badly now that my car is makin good street power. I hate this.

So what should i concentrate on fixing. Start by gettin rid of the tiens? Try new springs? Or get some decent tyres and get the suss properly setup?

Cheers

[Steve]

Dean, get a 2 way diff, or a 1.5way - best value mod you can do for predicability and getting power down (from what I have done so far). No back end breaking loose unpredictably, much quicker off the line, and when oversteering, it is alot tighter, ie, you wont end up in the next lane;)

I have found most of the mods I have done so far have made subtle differences (of course coilovers make a major difference, and diff), but they have all helped. I have pineapples, hardmount bushes, front and rear strut braces, adj whiteline swaybars (set to max), now caster rods in the front, which are alot better than just bushes (improvement over 7.5deg that I had with just bushes, now I have more, plus rose jointes which are tighter:)), camber arms on the way, and a hicas lock bar on the way.

If I had to rate the mods and their effect,

1/ coilovers (obvious improvements)

2/ diff (huge improvement in power deliver and predictability)

3/ swaybars (car alot flatter and tighter in corners than the stock ones)

4/ caster rods (much, much better turn in)

5/ Fr strut brace (similar to sway bars)

6/Pineapples/hardmounts (car feels firmer on the road, more settled when under power)

7/ Rr strut brace (tightened up handling, but more subtle than front strut brace or swaybars)

I cannot wait to get rid of the hicas, as it has a bloody mind of its own, and we dont see eye to eye all the time:p

I would recommend you look at upgrading your diff, I can guarantee you will not be disappointed. As your springs are a bit heavier than mine, I dont think swaybars will make the difference that they did in my case, next I would recommend you look at castor rods, then cradle bushes. As SK suggested, camber bushes will tighten up the feel of the road on the car, or if you have the dollars, get adjustable arms. And lastly, think about getting rid of the hicas - it is not your friend.

Clint32 can supply castor rods (you wont find cheaper new) and whiteline kits at very reasonable prices (best labour rates in town;)) and hicas lock kits.

As for diff, Z imports (wingfield) had a 2 way and were only after around $500 from memory, but a good 2 way you can expect to pay up to around 800-1k second hand. BUT very well worth the money. If you are lucky they may still have it.

If my wife would let me, I would drop in a half cage in a heart beat too. Much stiffer body. JMS had a really nice DOLUCK 1/2 cage (out of their 33?) in stock for only $450. If you do this, you loose your back seats, but hey, its a sports car (if only my wife understood:()

SK, thanks for the info. You wouldnt be able to tell me what those spring rates are in kg? or how to convert? I was also wondering what toe do you run? I was thinking around 1deg in the front? would this be too much/little for a 33?

[sidewaymambo]

Hi, Steve

thanks for the post..PM'ed

Phillip

[EnricoPalazzo]

i would of been interested in that diff, but i have no money now. refer to my post in sa forum

[Steve]

very hard to make upgrades without cash, sorry to hear things arent going so well.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Steve, converting pounds per inch to kilograms per mm, easy there are 2.2 lbs in a kilogram and 25.4 mm in an inch

So 350 / 25.4 / 2.2 = 6.2 kg per mm

and 200 /25.4 /2.2 = 3.6 kg per mm

You really do need to get that HICAS outa there, removing it makes a huge difference to the feel and driver confidence.

You are right on the diffs, used 1.5 way also sell for less than used 2 way. I have no idea why the used price difference, they are the same price new. It's like they think 2's must be 33% better than 1.5's so they charge 33% more for them. For drifting there is an argument for 2 way, but for everything else a 1.5 would be superior. But don't tell anyone, OK? I like the bargaining aspect so much

Me - "Oh, it's only a 1.5 way, I wanted a 2 way"

Salesman - "OK, what if we sell it to you even cheaper"

Me thinking - (It was already 50% cheaper than the 2 way)

Me - "But I wanted a 2 way"

Salesman - "How about a $100 off if you take it now"

Me - "OK" (come in spinner)

Hope that helps

[SLY33]

thats a funny script gary! But can you explain the superiority on the street for a 1.5 way? Im under the impression that a 2 way locks on accel and decel. or something. i have a cusco 2way and i find that if it comes out too far and i back off, the back end is stable and doesnt flick or snap back. Will these benefits still be in a 1.5way?

[EnricoPalazzo]

gary, could u also compare the 1.5 way diff compared to a re-shimmed standard diff.

cheers

[Steve]

http://www.cusco.co.jp/english/e_cont.html

link that has a basic explanation of the different diff types.

Enrico, at the end of the day, a reshimmed viscous diff will still open wheel somewhat, 1.5 was provides full locking on accelleration, but less lock on decel than a 2 way. Interesting that the cusco is selectable between 1,1.5 and 2 way.

According to cusco site, 1.5way is less prone to understeer than the 2 way? perhaps they had a typo, as my understanding is that a 1.5way will pull the back end in quicker than a 2 way, so less prone to oversteer?

Sydneykid?

[Duncan]

I think more prone is right, under brakes the inside wheel is locked to the same speed as the outside wheel = going straight ahead.

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, as Duncan posted, what Cusco is saying is, turn in understeer increases with a 2 way as it tries to make the rear wheels turn at the same revolutions. When you are turning into a corner the inside wheel needs to rotate at a lower rpm than the outside wheel. This is because the inside wheel is turning through a smaller radius circle than the outside wheel. Since you turn into corners with power off, a 1.5 way allows this differential in rear wheel rpm whereas a 2 way doesn't.

The advantage of a 2 way is when you trail brake into the corner (brake while turning in) there is less chance of the inside rear wheel locking up. Noting that the inside rear wheel is the lightest loaded as the weight has been dynamically shifted to the outside wheel, mostly the front. Helping to prevent inside rear wheel lock up is not much help when the car is fitted with ABS of course, the ABS does it better than the diff ever could.

There is some argument for a 2 way if you do a lot of drifting, but even that is debatable. The lack of turn in response may outway the locking on power off for oversteer control. This is why you see a lot of drift cars spear off with terminal understeer as the rear diff doesn't unlock and they are reluctant to turn into the apex.

For a road car, I doubt that there is any argument to support a 2 way diff in an ABS equipped Skyline.

For GTR readers I would go for a 1 way in the front and the 1.5 way in the rear for the same understeer in reasons, only more so. Differential rotation of the front wheels is even more essential for turn in as the radius's differences between the inside and out wheels is even greater.

Hope that helps

PS; Please don't tell the import parts sales guys, I would like to continue to buy my 1.5 way diff's cheap, thanks.

[Steve]

just dial in heaps of castor, all your turn in woes seem to disappear:) bit of camber and toe out help too though.

[lwells]

PS; Please don't tell the import parts sales guys, I would like to continue to buy my 1.5 way diff's cheap, thanks.

SK: Where do you buy them from, and do you have a brand preference/model preference?

Cheers,

LW.

[craz0]

I have put up a couple of pics of the Bilstein Shock and Whiteline Spring against standard for a comparison.

Have a look in the members Gallery http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/photopost...500&ppuser=2574

[sidewaymambo]

thanks craz0

[Sydneykid]

Hi Iwells, I have bought 4 LSD's for Skylines in the last 12 months. One came from Japaneses Motorsport, one came from a forum guy in Perth who selling his GTR, one came from a guy in Brisbane who was "upgrading" to a 2 way and the other one came from a dealer in NZ who had "too many" 1.5 ways.

As for brands, to tell you the truth I can't find much difference. When you pull them apart they all look much the same and most parts are interchangeable. One of the diffs has KAAS plates in one side and Cuscos in the other, I can't feel any difference. The ATS LSD that I got from NZ looks to have the thickest intermediate plates, so if they were all the same price I'd buy one of those. But if an ATS one was $500 and a Cusco was $300, I'd buy the Cusco, they aren't worth that much extra.

Hope that helps

[lwells]

SK: Thanks for the details.

LW.

[(B1) MR_fanny]

and i always thought the 33 came with a 1.5 diff...haha...my bad.

i cant wait to get my hands on the 2 way diff that my local mech has lyin around in his workshop.