Gt-r 40km/h Over. Need Your Help!

[PM-R33]

we can make speed camera's redundant if we all speed when we get to a camera. If every car on Australian roads sets off a speed camera they wont be able to police it. If everyone has 0 demerits and lost their license the cops wont be able to do shit.

You start

[fungoolie]

It can manage up to 6 lanes at a time with a 150m head. (Meaning 150m clear unobstructed view of the 6 lanes).

The less the clearance distance the less lanes it can cover.

Col-GTSX

I was quite curious about this new technology you've mentioned and after some basic research have only been able to find one lidar system that scans up to 6 lanes and can discriminate between them. The Vitronic Poliscan http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2954.asp appears to have this capability and I've only been able to find reference of its use in WA at this stage which of course does not mean it hasn't been introduced in Qld. However the photo shown by Eastes clearly shows Gatsometer in the frame and reference to the Gatso website has no reference to a Lidar system that scans and can discriminate between lanes. Can you be sure that this lidar system was in use in this specific case? Surely the system you are discussing would show the lane identity in the photograph anyway? All the evidence required is usually part of the photograph in all examples I've seen at least in SA. Just want to give Eastes a fighting chance and not dismiss any lines of defence he may be able to use. I imagine a solicitor specialising in traffic would have this info at his fingertips.

Edited September 20, 2010 by fungoolie

[SRB]

well for starters u admitted to speeding here so if u decide to fight it if they find this thread ur f*kd lol or do wat a friend of mine did, nominated some lebo common name and a real address at a set of units which always are leased and tenants are always throwin out the mail,not your problem once its signed over, but then again, u admitted speeding im sure theres a porky pig stooge reading this as we all are haha

[ReflextioN]

Mate if you can afford it, fight it.

Edited September 20, 2010 by ReflextioN

[M.C Ren]

i have a few different circumstances iv seen and been in.

a friend if mine was chased by police on his motorbike wich i dont condone, none the less he was chased and got away, when the police arrived at his doorstep the next day and got taken into custody, long story short the lawyer got him off as his house has always got people over with the keys living in the garage, it could have been anyone riding the bike.

and here is one from my own experience,

driving up to mildura from melbourne for work at about 9:30pm 110kph i take a turn dow another highway, 30km down this next highway im doing the same 110kmh. mind you i was sticking exactly to the limit at this stage as i was on the 1 pointh in 12 month system.

as a police driver drives past me and does a u turn 3 hours in the middle of nowhere and sirens are blazing, im thinking whats going on here.

anyway, he pulls me over and he says do you know you where doing 110 i said, whats the problem, he says where in a 100 zone, i said i didnt see any signs, he said theres a sign on the 30km mark. so this guys obviously pinned blokes on this road with this misserable sign on the 23km mark wich i did not see.

to cut a long story short, i played by the rules, i told them my sad story, and they where not lleneant on my at all, "sorry there, but you are admitting you where speeding then you broke the law, and maybe you should talk to vic roads about getting more signs up, $220, 1 demerit point, $50 court costs, the beauty about my situation was that by me taking the fine to court in the first place, it gave me time to get one of my previous fines revoked due to someone else being the culprip of one of the other fines got out of losing my liscence, got the 1 demerit point in 12 months off and all my points came back in a matter of 2 months due to a bad patch in my youth.

what im saying is that in my case of pure missunderstanding and an honest lack of signs and pure bullshit, the good guy being me still got screwed, i mean 3 hours away in the middle of nowhere, 110kph on all highways, and 1 100km sign at the "30km" mark of a 100km highway should come with atleast a little leaniancy, come on.

anyway thats my rant hehe, sorry its been on my chest for a while but i came out the victor in the end so thats good

good luck with it all anyway, but dont do what you can to get off it, do what you have too.

all the best

speak to a lawyer and see what he says, but sometimes total honesty and being a good guy. makes their job at revenue raising verrry easy.

[eastes]

well for starters u admitted to speeding here so if u decide to fight it if they find this thread ur f*kd lol or do wat a friend of mine did, nominated some lebo common name and a real address at a set of units which always are leased and tenants are always throwin out the mail,not your problem once its signed over, but then again, u admitted speeding im sure theres a porky pig stooge reading this as we all are haha

I feel that the potential benefits of sharing my story outweighs the negatives. I've had some fantastic advise on here.

Besides, nearly all constables have no interest nor control over speed cameras so I'd have to be pretty unlucky for the wrong one to see this.

[eastes]

anyway thats my rant hehe, sorry its been on my chest for a while but i came out the victor in the end so thats good

good luck with it all anyway, but dont do what you can to get off it, do what you have too.

all the best

speak to a lawyer and see what he says, but sometimes total honesty and being a good guy. makes their job at revenue raising verrry easy.

I really appreciate your story. Thank you. Shocking about your biker friend. Geez!

[Mayuri Krab]

Yes spoken to a cop about this and his attitude was.... If you can't successfully overtake by sticking to the speed limit then he's clearly not going slow enough to need to overtake him..... And if you saw a car coming AFTER you started overtaking then you did not provide enough distance to overtake safely. He said you should NEVER find yourself in a situation where you have to accelerate more than you anticipated to get back in front of somebody. Lets face it, if we all drove how he suggested the queues on a country drive would be ridiculous. You can't win against their inane logic.

Man, I wonder does he ever drive on rural roads? Going by his logic no one would be able to overtake 2 - 3 stage semis on the rural roads thats going ~100... on my trip to kalgoorlie at the begninning of the year every over-take I made of a semi usually see my speed reach 130 to 140 & this was with a gutless auto Corolla... Also when I was near Kalgoorlie I spotted a Police car going about 130...

& to the OP, get a traffic laywer & go from there... Good luck!

Edited September 20, 2010 by Mayuri Krab

[eastes]

I just found my demerit point notice. It's not good news.

There's 2 offences, just short of 3 years ago. (back when I was even dumber) They totalled 6 points.

I'm in deep poo poo. This means 8 months suspension I think. I cannot believe this has happened to me. 4am. Can't sleep.

Will keep you updated.

[Gtir-keiron]

Same thing happen to me on a duel lanes and i went to the police station and showed them.I told them it was the other car that was speeding i was in the back ground on the further lane.

They told me that i could ask to have more info sent out that would prove the laser pointer on the camera was pointed at my car at the time of the photo.

This was a 4wd mounted camera where the officer sits inside it.

But the cost of the extra info sent out was expensive and that was befor i even would be able to take it to court.

I paided and took the fine.

[DaGr81]

you can clearly see that the ute sped up to 122kmh so you could not pass.

what a prick

LOL!!!

[GTScotT]

In all honesty, and speaking from experience, you will either need a large sum of money OR need to accept the reality and cop it sweet.

As much as it sucks, the law did not change on the day you chose to do 40 over the limit. This is not a cop out in any way, if you are going to drive fast, you are going to need to accept you are going to A get caught or B kill yourself.

I dont care for traffic laws in the slightest to be honest with you, as much as I believe in them I could not care less for how often they are broken. I am the last person to want to spank your ass and say 'bad boy' or 'that will teach you'. Yet the reality is, unless you are prepared to spend some 20k on legal expenses, you are going to cop it either way.

You really should consult a solicitor from here. Fighting the ticket as not guilty will show contempt for the law, and result in closer to the maximum penalty should you fail. Pleading guilty from the start will result in a more leniate sentence without a doubt, at this point you can ensure you have a GOOD solicitor with a GOOD mouth on him to bring light to the magistrate the conditions under which you commited the offence. Try to find somebody who is regular in your local court and is confident in an outcome.

For reference, pleading guilty cost me $14,600, pleading not guilty costed a friend closer to $40,000 to proove the police had insufficient evidence.

Best of luck, such is my 2c/reality check.

[fungoolie]

Man, I wonder does he ever drive on rural roads? Going by his logic no one would be able to overtake 2 - 3 stage semis on the rural roads thats going ~100... on my trip to kalgoorlie at the begninning of the year every over-take I made of a semi usually see my speed reach 130 to 140 & this was with a gutless auto Corolla... Also when I was near Kalgoorlie I spotted a Police car going about 130...

& to the OP, get a traffic laywer & go from there... Good luck!

They encourage a zero tolerance no leeway attitude in their staff so that you can never justify or find a valid defence to "speeding". It's easier to simply say ZERO tolerance and act all sanctimonious when you ask if its safer to pass a B double at 10 KPH over its speed or have a more commonsense approach.

A friend once spotted a police car sans sirens and lights doing 110 in an 80 zone and when he called the local station to report this he was told that it was close to shift end and the policemen was probably late in getting the car back in order to swap shifts. I mean fer fecks sake. At least come up with something that sounds a bit more life and death! I know what I would be told by a copper if I came up with that excuse!

[GTScotT]

A friend once spotted a police car sans sirens and lights doing 110 in an 80 zone and when he called the local station to report this he was told that it was close to shift end and the policemen was probably late in getting the car back in order to swap shifts. I mean fer fecks sake. At least come up with something that sounds a bit more life and death! I know what I would be told by a copper if I came up with that excuse!

I live on Queen Street in Bankstown NSW, there is a dip in the road just past my house where if you hit it hard enough you will get a fair way airborne. I know this because police cars regularly do so.

Take into consideration that I live here, so I have done my research. The individuals in question will be cruising down Milperra road, before turning into Queen and putting their lights on. They then turn the lights back off once they get to the next street and continue about their business.

I have also regularly seen highway patrol in my area with one arm out the window doing atleast double the suburban speed limit with smoke in hand.

I have made MANY complaints, and usually, the person at Bankstown police station laughs at me and says 'goodbye' before hanging up.

Consider yourself lucky to have been given an 'excuse'.

[Birds]

I'm pretty sure down here in Victoria the marked cars are allowed to speed a certain amount over the limit without a reason for it. Can't verify this 10%, just what I heard. But unmarked cars to it too, and the marked cars always breach whatever this certain amount is anyway.

Good to hear you taking a sensible route eastes.

[jawrgy]

I just found my demerit point notice. It's not good news.

There's 2 offences, just short of 3 years ago. (back when I was even dumber) They totalled 6 points.

I'm in deep poo poo. This means 8 months suspension I think. I cannot believe this has happened to me. 4am. Can't sleep.

Will keep you updated.

Fall short of just 3 years. Your court case and such should drag it out a couple of months. hopefully the time will help

[Col-GTSX]

My bad, being South Australian I assumed you guys were still using doppler microwave radar cameras as we do rather than a lidar based system. If that is the case I'd say you are screwed going down that path....

doppler is used in the majority of patrol cars in qld, its questionable in a moving vehicle... glass, reflective surfaces and sun light can mess with doppler...

lidar is only found in the highway patrol and brand new qld cop cars, its very accurate and almost impossible to question accuracy...

fixed speed cameras and mobile units use a "version" of lidar...

* I say version, as its quite different to normal lidar... You wont find info on google, its closely kept info I don't even know myself...

I think OP should just be going with a good driving plea (that is, if you deserve one), and try for a lesser charge.

I think your on the right path, admit the guilt and then accept the penalty and then ask for a work license.

Probably your best bet as driving again.

@Col-GTSX fantastic post. Thank you. This confirms my decision not to try to BS anyone.

I'm going to hire a solicitor and try for the honest approach with a plea for a slightly reduced penalty.

yeah as above, but that's only my opinion... The solicitor will know best in his case tho...

Col-GTSX

I was quite curious about this new technology you've mentioned

Its not new, its quite old actually... Since cameras were introduced the technology has changed about 6 times...

Currently QLD use two types, however they are slowly changing to just the one...

I cant answer all your questions, I only work within a certain part of the camera system (focusing, image production and image storage)...

Essentially the camera itself not all the systems around the camera, I just get the info from the unit technicians on the various other parts and how it all works...

There is Meta data sorted with every photo about which focusing area was used in the production of the photo...

How that comes about I cannot give you info, the software written to run the camera is reasonably confidential...

I need to be careful about info given, its not my place to tell eveyone how it works... I can only simplify how it works and explain how hard it would be to beat the facts...

There's 2 offences, just short of 3 years ago. (back when I was even dumber) They totalled 6 points.

Yeah so you fall under the repeat offender system (QLD only).

So because you have had a similar charge within the past 2 years you get double points for the most recent charge.

You really need to just contact a solicitor, your chances of getting a work license are not affected however as DUI is not a part of your problem.

Work license can be granted to just about anyone if they need it to remain employed.

That said if you need car storage I have a 3rd built in (and monitored alarm/video) garage space free and available to help, Id love to look at a R35 every morning when I jump into the gold cloud (Lexus)... Just have to push the bikes out to the titan out the back...

[eastes]

Yeah so you fall under the repeat offender system (QLD only).

So because you have had a similar charge within the past 2 years you get double points for the most recent charge.

No no, this is not similar at all. They were 2 minor offences. One was 3 points for failure to stop at redlight (got caught behind bus that stopped suddenly) Other was my fault. 72 in 60 zone. Both nearly 3 years ago. I think the repeat offender thing applies if you do something major like repeat DUI or repeat 40+.

That said if you need car storage I have a 3rd built in (and monitored alarm/video) garage space free and available to help, Id love to look at a R35 every morning when I jump into the gold cloud (Lexus)... Just have to push the bikes out to the titan out the back...

:-) It's amazing how many people have said "hey, how about I look after you car for 6 months". I'll probably just lend it to my brother for a while.

[mad082]

Agree with this, it just doesnt make sense. Surely it should be acceptable to do say 10-20% over the speed limit while overtaking and then once returning to the left hand lane must promptly return to the speed limit or something.

Otherwise it makes overtaking just plain dangerous. I always say i would prefer to get a fine then end up in the obituaries.

however in this case it was 52.5% over the limit.

[fungoolie]

doppler is used in the majority of patrol cars in qld, its questionable in a moving vehicle... glass, reflective surfaces and sun light can mess with doppler...

lidar is only found in the highway patrol and brand new qld cop cars, its very accurate and almost impossible to question accuracy...

fixed speed cameras and mobile units use a "version" of lidar...

* I say version, as its quite different to normal lidar... You wont find info on google, its closely kept info I don't even know myself...

Its not new, its quite old actually... Since cameras were introduced the technology has changed about 6 times...

Currently QLD use two types, however they are slowly changing to just the one...

I cant answer all your questions, I only work within a certain part of the camera system (focusing, image production and image storage)...

Essentially the camera itself not all the systems around the camera, I just get the info from the unit technicians on the various other parts and how it all works...

There is Meta data sorted with every photo about which focusing area was used in the production of the photo...

How that comes about I cannot give you info, the software written to run the camera is reasonably confidential...

I need to be careful about info given, its not my place to tell eveyone how it works... I can only simplify how it works and explain how hard it would be to beat the facts...

Col-GTSX you have just totally confused the crap out of me! When talking microwave doppler radar I'm talking microwave Radio Frequency (RF) RADAR. Not LIDAR (Light (laser) detection and Ranging). Doppler Radar is not confused by glass and sunlight. In fact Radar is the only technology used in moving vehicles! Lidar (Laser) potentially can be confused by glass and sunlight hence why never ever accept a ticket from someone who has targeted you through their windcreen using a Lidar gun. LIDAR cannot work in a mobile patrol car. So unless you're talking about the lidar guns used by police from the roadside being kept in these cars I cannot comprehend what you are saying here.

Lidar uses a LASER beam with an angular divergence of less than 1 MRad meaning the beam is only half metre in diameter at around 500 metres! This system cannot be used in a mobile application as it has to be carefully aimed and/or scanned in order to detect a vehicle.

Radar is and will continue to be the sensor of choice in mobile applications for the foreseeable future.

All your talk on the camera system is all well and good for making sure the image of the number plate is pin sharp etc but it has absolutely nothing to do with the sensor system used to detect the speed of the vehicles in the first place! It's just maximising the quality of the photo. You have not yet explained how or that Qld police are using a fixed position scanning laser based system to detect and isolate a speeding vehicle in a group of vehicles. Gatso does not make a scanning laser system.

I work in research in the area we're discussing but more in the military field rather than civil however the technology overlaps and I can easily see how a scanning LIDAR system could be used to scan across several lanes of traffic from a fixed location using Time Differential of Arrival techniques to ascertain the speed and spatial position of any vehicle within the scanning field. Hence the existence of the Poliscan unit and I'm sure it works a treat in Slovenia and WA where I know it's being used! Given Qld didn't bring in photo detection till the late 90s I'd be surprised they were using state of the art now and it's usually publicised broadly to get people to slow down...So unless you're talking about technology that hasn't yet been utilised by the major defence forces around the world I cant imagine what this "version" of Lidar is that you speak of.

However back to my original concern. Given that the picture says GATSOMETER, I would put money on the fact that this is a simple old tech K Band radar based unit not the Vitronic or any other brand of scanning laser/lidar unit. Even the cruddiness of the display within the photo indicates to me that this is an old tech analog system. Hence I still stand by my comment that there is no way that given the limited angular resolution of a K or Ka or even Ku band radar that you can distinguish which of the vehicles are actually speeding short of the obvious answer due to the circumstances of the two vehicles.

Again the law being what it is, do not discount the possibility of getting off on the technicality if the law or policy or regulations state that if there are two un-resolveable vehicles within the radar beam that you cannot issue a fine. Believe me the police are masters of bluff and will have a go even though they know they don't have a leg to stand on. I just want Eastes to have the best info and not be misinformed about what he is up against and I know his solicitor will know where he stands with regards to the level of technology he was facing that day.

I've challenged two fines now where they asked me to send in my evidence before the due date of the expiation notice arrived. They wrote back in one case cancelling the fine. In the second case they told me it wasn't enough and that the fine still stood. I elected to be prosecuted in court and guess what, no summons ever arrived...... Pure bluff. Hey why shouldn't they try, it is an unethical game, if I paid up and shut up they would have been $350 richer.

Also as an aside and while were on this topic. To all you guys in Victoria I know that your police are using the latest Ka band mobile radar unit made by MPH industries. It has what is commonly called a POP mode wherby it emits a 28 millisecond burst of RF with which it can establish an APPROXIMATE speed of the vehicle but it cannot be used to issue a ticket and MPH has deliberately set up the units to not lock the speed when it registers it and have specifically told authorities not to ticket when using this mode. It's job is to beat radar detectors that don't have pop detection mode. However what it does do is alert the officer the fact you may be speeding so he will follow up and try and pace or track you from behind.

The moral of the story is this, if you are pulled over, get out your mobile phone, dutifully inform the policeman that you will record the rest of the discussion and ask to see the radar display. Even without the phone backing you up no police officer will ticket you for a speed he cannot show you on his unit. If he's a good cop, he will just warn you.

Edited September 21, 2010 by fungoolie