Gt-r 40km/h Over. Need Your Help!

[Hanaldo]

Thread delivers.

Subscribed

[Beer Baron]

Let me respond to you, as we are talking about my family.

thank god you said it wht510. I was too tired to argue with this bloke. but GTRpowa feel free to take everything wht510 said as from me too.

as for pissing on the law. it's called civil disobedience. many countries have laws that are unjust or oppressive. If i don't believe in a law, or rather believe it to be unfair or unjust, I am an adult and can chose to disobey. yes I have to be aware of the consequences of my actions but the fact that I can drive safely and legally on an autobahn in Germany at 220 yet in NSW on a paid motorway that has a divided carriageway (and numerous safety features to reduce the possibility of head on and T-bone/side impact accidents), I am limited to as low as 60km/h in spots (m2 motorway) tells me there is something wrong with our speed limits.

you can pontificate all you want with your theoretical scenarios but the fact is the OP didn't injure anyone. he didn't have an accident. noting happened at all. so what about his actions was reckless or unsafe? Tell me what happened that warrants such a severe penalty?

my point (which you seemed to miss) was that in many cases of traffic infringement enforcement the punishment does not fit the crime. all your theoretical examples about a kid being killed at a bus stop etc are just that. theoretical. a kid was assaulted the other day in sydney, stabbed and thrown onto train tracks and died. should I tell me kid to never catch the train too? maybe tell him never go outside? or never get out of bed? life is full of risks. even more finely, life is full of calculated risks. speeding is a calculated risk, and yes it does make a difference where you are, what the weather is like, what the traffic is like, what knowledge you have of this piece of road, what car you are in, how well you know that car, what your current physical condition is and many other factors play a part. intelligent humans can asses all those things in a matter of seconds (or less) and make a calculated decision about what speed THEY feel comfortable driving at. I don't need to be a 'bad ass pro driver' to be able to accurately asses road conditions and the level of active and passive safety features in my vehicle and then determine a reasonably safe speed for me to travel at. I would hope most people with more than 10 yeas driving experience could too.

but now you are pushing me into arguments I wasn't making. my argument was simple. We have a draconian approach to traffic fine enforcement in this country. it's all about raising money, not at all about safety. with those things in mind i have no problem with what happened hear. No, actually I do have a problem. The OP was treated far too harshly and penalised far too severely for my liking. Yes he broke the law and I would think a fine in the order of $100 would cover it nicely. Many other countries would agree with me. Go and look up what a speeding fine costs you in some european countries. I've had one that was a whopping 15eu... I felt it was fair and paid it gladly.

[fungoolie]

I don't need to be a 'bad ass pro driver' to be able to accurately asses road conditions and the level of active and passive safety features in my vehicle and then determine a reasonably safe speed for me to travel at. I would hope most people with more than 10 yeas driving experience could too.

And for many years thats how limits were set. They'd measure how fast the general population would travel along the road and set the speed at that which 85% traveled below. Logic being that the vast majority of people have an innate ability to assess the risk and set their speed accordingly. It worked well but didn't do much for the revenue raising side of things. Hence also why they keep edging the tolerances on speeding lower and also keep lowering limits on roads that have not materially changed in years. Well if travelling 5 KPH over doubles your risk of accident as the TAC loves to keep telling us, all these roads that have had their limits reduced by 10 or 20 KPH should have seen a quartering or 1/16th of the accident rate...I think not. But we wont be seeing those statistics from MUARC or TAC now will we...But I bet revenue from speeding fines increased exponentially as you start heading into the meat of that revenue bell curve.

Speaking of hypocrisy... I'm reminded of the time when suburban limits arbitrarily dropped to 50 from 60 a few years back and a mate who I was a passenger with got booked at 58 in a 50 zone literally 3 months after the new limits came in. Initially he just took it but I just had to give the officer a serve when he started getting all sanctimonious by telling us how the residents were all sick and tired of "you people speeding" (at 60) up and down that road. I laughed... Wow, drop the limit by 10 KPH and suddenly that steady stream of traffic that had always been doing 60KPH past their houses was suddenly obnoxious and antisocial?? I asked him if he felt any remorse for all the years up to that point 3 months previous that HE also traveled up and down that same road at 60KPH scaring the poor residents witless and risking murdering so many innocents. He gave me some robotic innane answer that indicated he had not even grasped the point I was trying to make so then I rephrased and asked him if he in any way felt even slightly hypocritical given that up to three months earlier literally no-one, not even him, would have even questioned traveling up that road at 60 kph...But what had changed? NOTHING! Roads were just as wide, houses didn't move any closer to the road, kids didn't suddenly start riding their bikes more recklessly, nothing of the sort. Not even the "law abiding" pious people on this forum would have questioned doing 60 up that road...But straight after that universal change they'd seemingly want to string you up for doing what they themselves had been doing for years! I hope you saints are all traveling everywhere at 40 KPH in case you have an accident because it's inevitable one day that we will also drop to that limit so in order to be able to live with yourself when the govt decides that 50 KPH is too fast you'd better be doing it already to allay the guilty conscience you will surely suffer when you get told you were being so reckless all these years.

Edited May 31, 2011 by fungoolie

[Birds]

This^

This is why there should be a tolerance for speeding like in the good old days. I can't even remember what it was...I think you were allowed to do 10km/h over? Or was it 10%? Back before they put in place this "1km/h over" bullshit.

[wht510]

+2 for me as well. It's what I was trying to say but kept getting shot down in flames.

[Trozzle]

Trozzle, I'm trying to see when I'd stand up in court and say all of this. On the other hand I'd like to see you stand up in court in defence of someone who copped a less lenient decision from the magistrate and yap on about how safe the offence was at the time. It's compempt eitherway you go. The difference is this is a forum, not a courtroom. Deal with it. - Again I'll say that I never said the magistrate made a bad choice, he/she is in the job for the reason they have a proven track record for making good choices. They are put in place to sort out people who make POOR choices, such as the OP. That doesn't at all stop or prevent me from saying what 'can' happen as a result of careless driving on the roads.

HOLY DERP BATMAN

No I seem to recall you criticising the decision saying it was lenient and that the OP should have been hit harder. You've now gone back on yourself by agreeing the magistrate is there for a reason and that the law ISN'T black and white.

MAKE SENSE MAN

[wht510]

You know.... This thread ain't half bad....

That's right It's ALL BAD!

[Daleo]

I don't like this thread, now everyone is making rational arguments that I agree with.

The balance has returned.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Daleo

[GTR-N1]

Hahaaa Dale...

b-b-but why did you have to "Edit"?

lol

[Daleo]

Hahaaa Dale...

b-b-but why did you have to "Edit"?

lol

Because I used to be indecisive; but now I'm not too sure...

[GTR-N1]

...so terry waits for another "Edit"

lol

[Kujotk]

Omg this thread delivers the goods. What a great read. Reminds me of the days when I could be bothered trying to argue that the sky wasn't actually blue. Remember those good old days birds.... Speaking of which is barbarian still here or did the mods finally kick him for spreading his backwards The land of goat sphincter rings propaganda and hate?!!

[Beer Baron]

And for many years thats how limits were set. They'd measure how fast the general population would travel along the road and set the speed at that which 85% traveled below. Logic being that the vast majority of people have an innate ability to assess the risk and set their speed accordingly. It worked well but didn't do much for the revenue raising side of things. Hence also why they keep edging the tolerances on speeding lower and also keep lowering limits on roads that have not materially changed in years. Well if travelling 5 KPH over doubles your risk of accident as the TAC loves to keep telling us, all these roads that have had their limits reduced by 10 or 20 KPH should have seen a quartering or 1/16th of the accident rate...I think not. But we wont be seeing those statistics from MUARC or TAC now will we...But I bet revenue from speeding fines increased exponentially as you start heading into the meat of that revenue bell curve.

Speaking of hypocrisy... I'm reminded of the time when suburban limits arbitrarily dropped to 50 from 60 a few years back and a mate who I was a passenger with got booked at 58 in a 50 zone literally 3 months after the new limits came in. Initially he just took it but I just had to give the officer a serve when he started getting all sanctimonious by telling us how the residents were all sick and tired of "you people speeding" (at 60) up and down that road. I laughed... Wow, drop the limit by 10 KPH and suddenly that steady stream of traffic that had always been doing 60KPH past their houses was suddenly obnoxious and antisocial?? I asked him if he felt any remorse for all the years up to that point 3 months previous that HE also traveled up and down that same road at 60KPH scaring the poor residents witless and risking murdering so many innocents. He gave me some robotic innane answer that indicated he had not even grasped the point I was trying to make so then I rephrased and asked him if he in any way felt even slightly hypocritical given that up to three months earlier literally no-one, not even him, would have even questioned traveling up that road at 60 kph...But what had changed? NOTHING! Roads were just as wide, houses didn't move any closer to the road, kids didn't suddenly start riding their bikes more recklessly, nothing of the sort. Not even the "law abiding" pious people on this forum would have questioned doing 60 up that road...But straight after that universal change they'd seemingly want to string you up for doing what they themselves had been doing for years! I hope you saints are all traveling everywhere at 40 KPH in case you have an accident because it's inevitable one day that we will also drop to that limit so in order to be able to live with yourself when the govt decides that 50 KPH is too fast you'd better be doing it already to allay the guilty conscience you will surely suffer when you get told you were being so reckless all these years.

well put mate. I had a similar situation when they dropped our local roads from 60 to 50 too. about 8 or 9 years ago if memory serves me. of course it was completely arbitrary and designed to do one thing only. create a new group of law breakers that could be fined.

To consider that the M2 is an 80km/h zone given it's a fully divided road, has many safety features (no pedestrians, no driveways, not trees or poles, guard rails, smooth merge on and off ramps etc) how can old bells line of road be a 100km/h (or 110km/h I forget) zone? It's a non-divided 2 lane, 2 direction road (one lane each way) with just painted lines between the lanes. The lanes are also narrow. It also goes through residential areas so you have peoples driveways entering onto a 100km/h zone! they must all drive gallardo superleggera's to enable them to get up to 100km/h from their drivway to the road so they don't get mowed down by trucks. There are also pedestrians walking along, shops, trees, poles etc. I would say it's speed limit is possibly a little high, but even then it's not like people are dropping like flies out there. Most people are sensible enough to adjust their speed to what they think is safe. As for the rest of them, well speed limits won't help them anyway.

Given these inconsistencies and blatant oversights I have no problem with setting my own safe speed. Neither should any other competent driver. providing they still drive appropriately (signal lane changes, keep left when not overtaking, are alert) I don't have a problem at all.

[hamiltonau]

GTRDikhead

And btw, I'm not here to earn anyone's respect, if you have seen me posting around that should be rather apparent by now.

Understatement of 2011...we have a winner!

god, what a tool, pretty much what everyone else said since his last post sums up what i was going to say so will try not to just duplicate it all but wow, cant see how he is going to defend the number of complete backflips and inconsistencies pointed out here. .

flame on

[iamhe77]

F**kin' LOL. Who said anything about driving while stoned? This is your problem guy...you're putting words in peoples keyboards, assuming we have the mindsets you want us to have, so that you can build up some rage over it. Why you would do that, I have no idea. I'll lay it out for you one last time:

1. OP committed a summary offence.

2. OP was charged with the offence.

3. OP was handed down a punishment.

4. OP, with every legal right to, applied for a work driving licence.

5. A magistrate who oversees cases of traffic law on a daily basis decided this outcome.

6. People on SAU rationalise without condoning it, like the magistrate, that not every crime scenario is black and white...not every punishment is bureaucratically applicable - this is why we have courts.

7. GTRPowa fails to comprehend the reasons why a magistrate decided to grant a work licence.

8. GTRPowa yet to apply for a building permit, to commence work on a sizeable suspension bridge.

So he can falsely quote someone else's posts and fine them for "keyboard hooning".

[Grifforelli]

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for providing me with much needed lols in the middle of boring as study.

Really feel for you OP and I think you did the right thing. I'd buy you a beer if you lived in Wait Awhile

I wonder if it was actually La Bomba just catching up on some missed trolling.

Anyway thats my 2c. Flame away!

[xALmoN]

Wait Awhile

Lol, is it true that nothing really happens in WA?

[Birds]

Omg this thread delivers the goods. What a great read. Reminds me of the days when I could be bothered trying to argue that the sky wasn't actually blue. Remember those good old days birds.... Speaking of which is barbarian still here or did the mods finally kick him for spreading his backwards The land of goat sphincter rings propaganda and hate?!!

I do, I do. Even I've given up on the big time arguments for most part. Doesn't really change the world, just ends up forgotten in a week and you waste a whole lot of time doing it. Barbara is still here...he had a few holidays but has definitely cut down on the whole taking over the world thing.

[Grifforelli]

Sometimes it does.

It's just the footy that pisses me off because we get f**k all games live.

Thats why I call it Wait Awhile

[james111]

Is anyone else slightly annoyed (read pissed off) by the outcome of this?

Forget what kind of car the original poster drives.

Forget the fact the original poster seems to be fairly Remorseful.

Fact;

With blatant disregard, he broke the law.

40+ over the speed limit in any zone is pretty much saying f**k you.

10 / 20kmh on an overtake ., ok , this you can understand.

40+kmh though .... come on!

If he owned any other car every person on this forum would be giving him a mouth full but because he is driving the most enviable car on this forum "the r35" he is given help and treated otherwise.

Also;

Trying to excuse what he did with the excuse he was far from civilization or the speed limits are too low in that area or the other car was being dangerous by driving under the speed limit or his car has infinity years of engineering thus it can drive fast and be safe...etcetc.

is a load of SHIT!

The original posters licence is "so important" to his life and job. Without it he would be unable to work, as a result no income, goodby life, good by job / family support etc etc

Any normal person being aware of this , being aware of how important your licence actually is to everything in your life

WTF would you drive as fast as you did?

There is no excuse for it!

Pretending to care / show remorse by doing A volunteer car safety session ( or whatever the he'll it was) is nothing but a joke!!

Being a snake trying to save money / insurance complications by registering your car under a business is a cop out.

You deserve to pay 1000s more from your next rego renewal and you certainly deserve to be knocked back from most insurance companies you enquire with to see if you can get a cheaper quote!

You are no different to a person driving double the speed limit in a school zone, no differnt to some one doing burn outs in a city centre.

You are however similar in the way that whenever someone gets caught for being a f**kwit you are sorry. You wish you never did it.

I applaud you for your determination / success in being awarded a temporary driving permit during your suspension. However, I feel that you do not deserve it and won't be taught the appropriate / just lesson.

Your work life and personal life should suffer and become hard.

Everbody who breaks a similar law suffers, so why are you any different?!

You are not!

Bring on karma!

Anyone with half a brain would see speed limits are there Merliey for revenue raising with safety as a perfect excuse just look at this for example

• Nsw introduces mobile speed cameras are months of operation expected fines are down to a measly $250,000 a week!!! Rather than a good on drivers for doing the right thing they decide to try and bring in another 60+ vans , keep in mind the company that operates these vans are owned by Macquarie bank
• If speeding kills which is doesn't deceleration does:P Then the German autobahns would be a blood bath??
• I cant see how you can break in and steal a car and be let off with a fine <$300 while speeding your instantly given a ticket with no real choice to pay.... An interview with a ex highway patrol even stated if they genuinely wanted people to slow down theyd have there lights on at all times but instead they camp out of view in unmarked vehicles.

Make your own mind up!

*Futhur more there is no real legal defense to get off a speeding fine except for hire an expert witness at the tune of $2500+ plus legals for your solicitor , seams set up to favor someone......

Edited October 6, 2011 by james111