A Step by Step Guide to STOP THE CHANGES to the 15 Year Rule

[zsky]

everyone do this

i'm in the process of writing my letter to stop the 15yr rule change

DOTARS WILL CHANGE the 15 year rule if we don't stop them. We CAN stop them, but we need your help right now to do it.

IMPORTANT -- Please go to the following link to read a full 30 page submission that rips the ridiculous DOTARS "Regulation Impact Statement" to pieces.

http://www.r34skyline.com/politics/our_sub..._submission.pdf

If you would like to help us in our fight to retain the 15+ year rule as it is, please read on for full details. Also, please send this information on to as many people as possible, including Mailing Lists, Magazines, online websites and forums, and anyone else you can think of that would like to retain their rights of choice. To have a chance, we must raise awareness quickly and show an overwhelming response against any changes to this regulation.

DOTARS have given a deadline for comments on their proposed options of end of Feb 2004. If we do nothing to oppose them, we expect they will make an announcement shortly after that, doing away with the 15 year rule as we know it. Possibly as early as March 2004. Neither would we be surprised if they use their announcement date to spell the end of all 1989 and younger models from that date onwards, in the lead up to the official axing of the rule on 1st Jan 2005.

We need as many individual letters written and sent to the listed politicians within the next 2 to 3 weeks as possible. Please try not to leave it any longer than that as a massed and rapid response is needed to have a chance at stopping the changes.

Please note that that form (pre-prepared) letters even when sent in large numbers have very little impact on Politicians, and are virtually a waste of time. So please write letters in your own words. Typed or hand written, it doesn't matter but please sign them with your name and address. They don't have to be long or detailed, just title the letter to clearly show the subject, state the main issues that you feel are important and that you oppose and changes, sign your name, and send copies to those listed in the instructions below.

You can also telephone your comments in if you don't have the time to write, but letters are much more effective.

Internet petitions, while useful to improve awareness of the issue, are still not taken seriously in Canberra. So please focus your energy on getting all your friends, family, work colleagues etc. to each write a short letter and send it to the people listed below by the end of next week.

You need to voice your outrage at the proposed changes and to clearly state that Option 1 (ie. retain the rule as it is) is the only acceptable choice put forward by DOTARS. It is also important to push for retaining the rule as it is for at least 5 years. This will give businesses and the public some certainty of the future without the fear of DOTARS making more changes every year. If you like, you can also take the opportunity to voice your concerns over SEVS and how it has been handled by DOTARS, and the very negative impact on both business and the public. Note that another response form has been prepared to list an Option 4, that is Option 1 PLUS some serious changes to SEVS. We recommend that you use this one.

Following is a list of points on which you can base your letters:

Reasons for Keeping the 15+ Year Rule as it is

1) The great majority of 15+ year old Japanese vehicles are vastly superior to the average vehicle on Australian roads in both emissions and safety. In reality, Japan actually had better emissions standards in 1978 than we have in Australia TODAY !

2) DOTARS' whole argument is that Australia is taking the refuse of the Japanese car market and this will be bad for Australia. This is simply not true on a number of levels. Importing anything less than a decent up spec model is just not financially viable, given the fixed costs of importing (transport etc.). The kind of vehicles that they are worried about just do not come here, instead they are scrapped and recycled in Japan (which is exactly what SHOULD happen to all the oil burning and rusty 60's, 70's, 80's and even 90's models still on our roads in great numbers, and is exactly what WOULD happen if our import rules were less restrictive). In reality, it is generally the cream of 15+ year old vehicles that is imported, which is the complete opposite of what DOTARS would have us believe.

3) The models typically imported are targetted due to the fact that they were very expensive and fully optioned prestige or sports models in their day. They can still offer a range of options that were not offered on the Aust. model release are still not available in new cars sold in Australia today. This leads to a great number of top of the range models being imported, which are still far superior to most new cars sold here to this day. The styling of most still competes very well with bland local offerings as well !

4) The vehicles selected for import usually in good condition and have low kms, often 1/3 to 1/2 the Australian average, and must go through a full safety and mechanical inspection every 2 years to stay on the road in Japan. Meaning of course that they are almost certainly going to be in better condition than most 5 to 7 year old vehicles on our roads given that a vehicle here will stay on the road as long as the annual registration is paid, regardless of it's roadworthiness or emissions (until of course they are pulled over by the police and yellow-stickered).

5) Many businesses rely on the import of 15+ year old vehicles for survival, and will be put out of business if the rule changes.

6) The Govt. is trying to control the number of secondhand imported vehicles, which is a restraint to free trade and their actions should be investigated.

7) Inaccurate figures and irrelevant and confusing comparisons are being used by DOTARS to mask the real reason for the proposed changes, which is import numbers. They should be held accountable for trying to mislead and misdirect the public and industry consultation process, and made to publicly explain why their arguments and figures do not make sense and their actions are a complete opposite to their supposed duty to the public.

8) DOTARS want to unfairly and unreasonably restrict our access to cheap, efficient, safe and reliable vehicles based on some misplaced loyalty to the large car manufacturers. The fact is that the import alternatives seriously kick the bum of virtually any available Australian vehicle option in the same price range on all the above points. If DOTARS succeed, not only will they rob us of our right of choice, but far worse will indirectly result in Australian lives being needlessly lost on the road through legislating against the free choice to import safer vehicles which are otherwise readily available.

9) The 'recycling' or re-use of secondhand vehicles by importing them rather than manufacturing new vehicles locally reduces environmental impact. The only drawback might be if the secondhand vehicle was either less efficient or more polluting than the new vehicle. In this case however, the majority of imports have lower emissions and are more fuel efficient than the average Australian vehicle on the road today, and many compete extremely well with the efficiency standards of even new vehicles currently sold in Australia.

If the 15+ year rule remains, this situation will only improve as time goes on, as we will gain access to models with even better fuel efficiency and lower emissions. The result will be lower national greenhouse gas emissions helping Australia to meet its' international targets and a healthier local environment (air quality). According to Environment Australia, Australia has a high per capita level of greenhouse gas emissions by world standards. Greenhouse gas emissions increased by 16.9% between 1990 and 1998.

Overall, the environmental benefits of importing secondhand vehicles are completely in the favour of encouraging imports. Given the current level of concern for the environment coupled with the evident Govt. focus on encouraging sustainable development policies to reduce environmental impact, it is very remiss for this issue to be completely neglected by DOTARS. Why they would want to encourage the manufacture of more new vehicles when these alternatives are available is mind-boggling, and makes a complete mockery of the Govt.'s statements on the environment.

[Merli]

Nope.

Scrap the rule, stop importing old and busted cars into Australia, and stop lowering the resale value of our cars.

[zsky]

What you can do to stop the ridiculous axing of the Australian 15+ import rule on vehicles

Please see below a step by step guide on what you can do to stop the changes, summarised from the following link:

http://www.r34skyline.com/politics/do15years.htm

A great deal of thanks is due to www.r34skyline.com which has worked solidly over the last week to prepare and get all the necessary information online.

STEP 1 - Read and reply to the DOTARS letter

The Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS) has sent out a ridiculous letter (January 2004) outlining their faulty reasoning of why the 15 year rule should be scrapped. Included in it is a form to fill in and send back (note that you can't find a copy of any of this on their web site).

It may not be that effective, as they have obviously already made up their mind about what they want -- their paper is clearly misleading on several issues. But it doesn't take long to do, and will help in the official statistics when they are compiled. They probably won't take much notice of the 'survey' they are doing if it disagrees with the trade barrier they want to implement, but it's worth a shot. It can also be emailed in.

Feel free to use any comments out of the submission, plus whatever else you can think of.

You can either send in their form (unaltered) or the updated one (as .doc, as .txt) that includes an extra option --

Option 4. Make no changes to the current arrangements – ie. Option 1.

Plus change SEVS so that –

1. There is no quota for each RAW, ie. scrap the 100 limit.

2. Modified vehicles can be complied.

3. Each individual RAW application can cover a range of engines and variations of a model.

4. Allow damaged and previously repaired vehicles to be imported, though require them to be identified as such, so that any downstream buyer will be aware.

5. Allow for individuals to apply for the Import Approval, not just RAWS (who will still do the compliance work).

6. Tyres only need to be changed if they are not roadworthy

This can be done easily via email, letter, or fax, to:

Mr Ross Docherty

Vehicle Safety Standards

Department of Transport and Regional Services

GPO Box 594

CANBERRA ACT 2601

or facsimile to: 02 6274 7714

or e-mail to: [email protected]

Step 2 - Write a letter / phone the politicians who might be able to do something about it.

The politicians that control the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS) should be far more open to understanding the problems consumers have with restrictive trade than DOTARS themselves.

The three main ones to either write to or phone (e-mail isn't very effective with politicians) are:

The Person

Position

The Hon J. D. Anderson MP

Member for Gwydir

Parliament House

CANBERRA ACT 2600

He is -

The Deputy Prime Minister

The Minister for Transport and Regional Services

The Leader of the Federal National Party

The Hon J. W. Howard MP

Member for Bennelong

Parliament House

CANBERRA ACT 2600

He is -

The Prime Minister

Leader of the Federal Liberal Party

The Hon M. A. J. Vaile MP

Member for Lyne

Parliament House

CANBERRA ACT 2600

He is -

Deputy Leader of the Nationals

Minister for Trade

And a vocal supporter of free trade. Currently negotiating our free trade agreement with the USA.

Write them a letter telling them your views on the proposed change, and why you think the change should not go through. As in Step 1, feel free to copy anything from the submission.

If you haven't got time to write to them, phone them. You will not get through to them at Parliament House, but their electoral offices are -

The Hon J. D. Anderson MP - Tel : (02) 6742 3155, Fax : (02) 6742 1840

The Hon J. W. Howard MP - Tel : (02) 9816 1300, Fax : (02) 9816 1349

The Hon M. A. J. Vaile MP - Tel : (02) 6584 2411, Fax : (02) 6584 2411

The more people that we can get to do this, the better the chance we have of stopping the DOTARS making the changes.

Step 3 - Contact the ACCC

There is no doubt that the ACCC is firmly against the type of behaviour Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS) is supporting. You just have to read any of the papers by Professor Allan Fels, who was Chairman Trade Practices Commission at the time. Many of these papers are available on the ACCC website.

The main problem with asking them to be involved is the fine line between domestic competition policy and trade policy. But it can't hurt and you can do it quickly and easily online.

Either ring them on 1300 302 502, or contact them through their contact page, or their complaints page.

Step 4 - Contact as many people as you can and tell them about the proposed change, and get them to complain as well

Step 5 - Stay on our Mailing List and add as many others as you can so that we can keep you informed on what is going on

Step 6 - Either register and be active on the www.r34skyline.com website forums and other enthusiast forums such as www.skylinesdownunder.com.

Executive Overview

To understand what is happening currently to the 15 year rule, it is necessary to have an overview of changes to the import of vehicles over the last couple of years.

SEVS was introduced over the last 3 years simply as a way for the Govt. to control the number of secondhand vehicles imported to Australia. If nothing else, this is clear just from the way it was implemented -- if the main concerns were really about emissions, public safety and ensuring that vehicles meet Australian Design Rules prior to being put on the road (as DOTARS stated), then they would not have included a 100 vehicle per workshop per year restriction. This restriction represents an intentional barrier to trade, and comes at a time when the Australian Govt. is taking the moral high ground and pointing the finger at other countries including the US to remove their restrictive trade barriers !

SEVS is an over-restrictive system that makes importing vehicles much more difficult and more expensive for us all. Rather than letting supply and demand dictate numbers, the system allows for a quota system that can be varied at any time at the discretion of DOTARS. They have included powers that allow them at a stroke of the pen to cut the annual quota for workshops down to 50 or even 25 vehicles, until they drive them out of business. You'd think that the Govt. would not do this surely, not in Australia, but sadly based on many past actions by DOTARS, this scenario is certainly foreseeable.

They have been careful to avoid blatantly constraining the actual number of workshops, but are certainly doing so indirectly by drawing out the process of approving workshops to ridiculous timeframes, and having insufficient manpower to manage the process.

Since the introduction of SEVS, many businesses have logically been forced to rely on the import of 15+ year old vehicles just to survive. A $50,000 set up cost and 18 month frustrating wait before receiving any income whatsoever under SEVS is obviously more than most businesses can afford and a we estimate that more than 85% of the workshops undertaking compliance under the previous scheme no longer do this work nor have any intention of going into SEVS because of the cost and hardship. Some of the businesses that have survived to date will struggle and others will be directly put out of business if the rules change to restrict the import of 15+ year old vehicles as well, so closely on the heels of the SEVS nightmare.

The proposed changes by DOTARS to the 15+ year rule are SEVS all over again. The same illogical reason is behind it -- import numbers -- and the same covering arguments are being wheeled forward -- safety and emissions -- since they worked so well for DOTARS previously (even though they were, and still are, factually incorrect and verging on intentionally misleading).

DOTARS allege that the the import of 15+ year old vehicles (the great majority from Japan, according to their own numbers) will worsen the average emissions and safety of the Australian vehicle fleet. This is complete nonsense and appears to be intentionally misleading just to support their incorrect conclusions. They have paid no attention to the fact that Japan has had more strict emissions regulations since 1978 than Australia has TODAY. Instead they support their argument with irrelevant comparisons of current Aust. standards with previous Aust. standards, which only proves the obvious -- that older Australian cars are worse than current Aust. cars and says nothing about the low emissions of import alternatives.

DOTARS also neglect the vital point that for the same budget, the import options are in almost all cases safer, more efficient, and less polluting, as well as being more enjoyable to drive than locally available alternatives.

If we let them get away with this again, what will they do in the next few years ? Perhaps they will do away with imports altogether. So stand up and have your say before it's too late.

A great deal of thanks is due to www.r34skyline.com which has worked solidly over the last week to prepare and get all the necessary information online.

[zsky]

Nope.

Scrap the rule, stop importing old and busted cars into Australia, and stop lowering the resale value of our cars.

dont be so stupid

as i have said before not everyone can afford a late model car and 15yr old jap cars are better than any 15yr old local car.

[Amaru]

Theres always going to be a conflict of interest on this subject. Theres always going to be those who are opposed to the rule for whatever reasons, e.g protecting resale value, and those that are for it, for cheap imports etc. The two sides will always be split by nothing more than personal opinion, and you have no right to call someone stupid for expressing their opinion.

I for one am against this rule, as like most other S13/R32/Z32 owners want to protect the resale value of my car. Thats the main reason. The second is the amount of 17 and 18 year old wankers now running around with $5 - 10,000 to buy a complete shitter GTR/GTST/SILVIA/180SX/300ZX and thinks its the shit, and further drag down the reputation of imports by driving around in rusted junk that would have otherwise been scrapped in Japan.

HOWEVER, on that note, I am NOT opposed to good quality cars coming in under the 15 year old rule. My main gripe is with the above mentioned.

But once again it comes down to personal opinion, and everyones entitled to one

[EVO83]

Whats the point they have already made up there mind. they are not going to change. IT WILL BE SHUT DOWN face it no matter what ppl are doing it isnt going to happen and in a way i hope it does. But i still belive that if we want 15 year olds then RAWS should be the only ones to import them. At least we know that ppl are not going to get the S**T cars that are comming off the docks now that are 15 year olds.

[Merli]

dont be so stupid

as i have said before not everyone can afford a late model car

Well........ Then you can't afford the car!!!

Buy something cheaper and don't lower the value of MY car!!!

and 15yr old jap cars are better than any 15yr old local car.

This however can be very true in some cases... I can't suggest a better rule to replace the current one, other than doing every car on a case-by-case basis, and I'm not deluded enough to think that will EVER get past the front desk of Parliament house :Oops:

[zsky]

sorry for that comment i know i shouldn't have said it but its just annoying how they are changing all the import rules and making things harder.

[GTR R35]

I think DOTARS have a severe case of NFI !!!

I want them to scrap the 15 year law and will not be sending my letter, but as this great country is an apparent democracy, everyone that disagrees with me can send a letter to someone who does not give a sh*t.....it will make bugger all difference anyway.

Like they say opinions are like assholes.........and most smell like sh*t....so they must be.

This is just a BS way for DOTARS to cover their asses by repairing this mistake.

The only solution to this problem is to only allow the RAWS approved guys who have been granted plated to import 15yo cars.

My solution is if a RAWS importer has a R33 or 34 plate, they should be allowed to import

I can see both points of the argument, but I do not think that under 21's should have access to <$22k GTR's, this is just an accident waiting to happen. If you cannot afford to buy a skyline now cause of the purchase price, wait till you get the quote on the insurance.

I assure you all that keeping the 15yo rule WILL devalue all imports. Will significantly increase insurance for imports. Will cause us more crap with the cops,as these cars will most likely be modded and show ponies.

There are plenty of great cars available in Oz, you do not need Jap trash.

Japs are notorious for NOT maintaining their cars, they only do what they need for Shekken.

:flamed: Flame suite on:flamed:

Mal

[red17]

Im all for the 15 year rule being scrapped also. For the reasons stated above. But why cant the government extend the RAWS scheme a bit further making it a little easier (and somewhat cheaper) to import a wider range of vehicles. That would make more sense to me.

Red17

[EVO83]

its all in the planes to shut us down Red.

We took 2 years and god knows how much money to get were we are. It is the most stupid thing I have ever had to go through and the stress on my Boss well lets just say :Bang:

[predator]

. The second is the amount of 17 and 18 year old wankers now running around with $5 - 10,000 to buy a complete shitter GTR/GTST/SILVIA/180SX/300ZX and thinks its the shit, and further drag down the reputation of imports by driving around in rusted junk that would have otherwise been scrapped in Japan.

is it any different to them running around in a commodore, falcon or anything else of that age? I mean everybody started doing that at that age. My budget at that age was about $3k .. i couldn't even afford a 15 year import if say i was in that position when i was 18.

I think some of you older mob forget what it was like to be 18 and dead broke, but still wanting some nice to drive that maybe has a few options and is slightly differnet to the average shitbox gemini, commodore, or magna, camry, etc. Get off your high horses a little, just because you have skylines and whatever now doesn't mean somebody isn't entitled to drive a cheap silvia or something around. "Devaluing" what a crock of shit, they're only japanese cars, they're gonna depreciate anyhow - they're not some rare 1 of 500 model run!

Anyhow, I do see the safety aspect a bit, its dangerous to let 18 year olds drive 400hp cars.. I believe they just should make it pre jan 1st 1989 if they have to do anything.. that stops your precious "devaluing", and means two of the "big evils" to some, the R32 (Gts-T and GTR), 180sx, s13 (well 1988), etc aren't available to young guys fully modifed. These become SEVS imports, subject to all the conditions there. People won't want a 1989 model anyhow if it switches to SEVS, if a 1992 model costs the same as is in better condition.. The difference in pricing between a 15 year and say 1992 SEVS complied car is about $3k - hardly "devaluing" a newer and better condition car!!

I assure you all that keeping the 15yo rule WILL devalue all imports. Will significantly increase insurance for imports. Will cause us more crap with the cops,as these cars will most likely be modded and show ponies.

I simply can't understand that statement to be honest! the 15 year has been around for quite a few years as it stands, its always been there. Things haven't changed, the emphasis has changed, only because the government starting sticking their nose in too much.

If you look at things a little, I think to be honest the least reason for the changes is our Nissans, but Mercs, BMW, etc which definitely devalue what is here and dealers that specialise in selling those cars "aussie delivered". Looking at the numbers in the table, Nissan is languishing down the list in terms of "numbers imported" for 15 year cars anyhow.

[Passage31]

Just wondering how my R31 Import skyline effects the resale on R33? I would have assumed most people buy imports for the fun in driving them, not what they can sell them for down the track. Depreciation is a way of life. R33's are a long way off the 15yr rule anyway!

Some people like the older cars and/or can only afford them. I would love to walk into a yard an buy a near new import but its not possible.

In the near future I will be looking at an R32 about $10K in near immaculate condition brought in the country. I would rather spend my hard earned money on a nice skyline than EL falcon or VT commonwhore!!!

So i am sorry if i offend anyone in saying that i will continue buying cheaper 15yr cars and petitioning, regardless of everyones resales!

P.S: There are also limitations on 15+ imports, these "@#$*box's" still need to be registered and engineer approved to drive them!

[GTR R35]

A simple example of devaluing of imports:

1991 Oz GTR in 2000 was selling (if u could get one) for about the $70-80k mark, since the greay import market has been allowed, they are now under $40k. The first Grey R33 GTR's were all +$60k, now we say good luck getting $40k....this is a 50% depreciation in 2 years. Even new cars are not dropping that fast!!!

EVO 6.5 Makkinen editions were being sold by Mitsubishi Oz for $82k, yet you could get a grey import for under $60k at the same time or a EVO7 for $70k. It is not just the 15 year law that affects value, but I have noticed that R33's and R34's are hard to come by at the moment so they are holding values, have a look at the end of this year after the RAWS comes through and they start arriving back into the country, the price WILL drop as demand is outstripped by demand. The 15yo rule is only going to make things worse as there will be many cheap cars on the market. If there are 1989 GTR's in apparently good nick going for $20k, do you honestly think people will be able to sell their R33 GTR's for +$40k ? I do not think so as you could get a spare GTR and have 2 for one. This will ultimatly drop the prices on ALL skylines. The R33/34 GTR's will be lower. MArk my words, you will be able to buy a R33 GTR in good nick for $25-30k and a R34 GTR for $50-65k within 18 months. Have you counted how many R32-34 GTR's are for sale in this months Unique Auto or Trading Post ? I have seen these cars there for months, they will either drop their prices or hold onto their cars, but the fact remains they are NOT selling. The skyline/exotic import is going to become a common sight and thus it will be less desirable and will loose its value due to excess supply. Yes there will remain the die hard fans, but do not forget that there are many other desirable cars that we have not seen yet that will also affect the values overall.

Please understand that I am not saying that the 15yo law is going to be the sole cause of devaluing all imports, it will only create a glut of old cars. It will devalue ALL 10yo+ second hand cars as there will be more choice.

I have had first hand experience with this problem. I am trying to sell a Oz 1998 Pajero SWB, this car was the best SWB 4x4 you could get, it had street cred as it was bloody fast for a 4x4. Grey importers are now bringing in convertable ones with less milage and I have seen this vehicle drop from $28k this time last year to $20k now as people now have more choice and want a convertable that are growing on trees in import dealer yards. You may be critical of me using these examples, but wait until you are trying to sell whatever car second hand.....prepare to take a bath.

The only winners in all of this are the Shipping companies and the government getting our taxes.

Just my 2c worth

Mal

[Kaido_RR]

i am sorry but i got my r33 GTS-T, 2 DRIVE IT NOT FOR THE RESALE VALUE;

Like Pmotorsport stated that this is agaisnt the free trade act and ACCC, should look into it.

pure fact is i would rather be driving a LS400 Lexus then a VR holden (ls400 89 model sell for around the same price 10k as vr)

its not just the j-spec cars which people import alot of euro and america spec car also fall under the 15yr old rule and would be a dame shame 2 lose the choice of import those cars.

Also without the 15yr old rule people would be unable 2 import such cars as NSX which again is a dame shame

ohh yeah and if you bought your car for its resale value, then sell it now and stop bit ching, this system it ment for importing cars not MAKING money get over it

just my 2cents

[Guest]

It is about the number of cars that are coming in which is the main sore point with the decision makers and the lobby groups.

And look at the reason to why the rule started.

BACKGROUND

The arrangements for 15 or more years old vehicles were first introduced

administratively in October 1989, and allowed vehicles manufactured before 1974 to

be exempted from the requirements of the Act. In 1992 a new Regulation was added

which stipulated that vehicles 15 or more years old must be approved for importation.

The intent of this arrangement when it was introduced was to provide for the

importation of older vehicles on the basis that they were generally imported for

restoration and club use.

I dont care either way just think about why you are submitting something for,

Because you want to buy a 15 year old car or you are listening to people with motives that they wont state or even who they are like who is www.r34skyline.com put your name up if you feel that strong.

[ian]

Because you want to buy a 15 year old car or you are listening to people with motives that they wont state or even who they are like who is www.r34skyline.com put your name up if you feel that strong.

That's an interesting thought - just about every person on this site has strong feelings about something - but nobody - including you - seems to ever want their name involved!

So DRIFTT, and I'm happy for anyone here to put their name up :-) And anyone can ask me any questions, name or no name!

And maybe a reply that I emailed to someone last night (in response to an email) will help you figure out who I am and why I'm having a go at not just the 15 year rule, but SEVS as well...

This was the email I got -

----------

Just wondering who is running this site? I find it hard to believe its being run out of the goodness of someone's heart without financial backing from any companies in the industry?

X

----------

And this was my exact reply -

**************

Hi X

Actually, and you can look up the domain name ownership, I run the site! I own a r34 gtt, have lived in Japan (and other places) and have been a car nut for many years. I've also been involved in the big end of the corporate world, so yelling at the government doesn't particularly stress me...

I was planning a r34skyline site, as it is difficult to find information about them on the web - most of it is R33 and R32. When the DOTARS thing came out a few weeks ago, I thought 'here we go, government stuffing us up again'! and decided to do something about it - and the web server was already setup.

So yes, that is exactly what I'm doing - I'm doing it 'cause the government pisses me off, and I want to do something about it. Being technically minded, the web stuff isn't hard for me to do either! I (no one else) went hunting for the japanese emission numbers, etc etc, and I PM'ed a few other skyline nuts for comments which I incorporated.

So no financial backing (web sites are cheap) and I did it all in a week between getting my main work done! I've never been in the car industry and have zero backing from anyone except my wife :-)

If your still not convinced, send me a number and I'll give you a ring!

Ian Quick

**************

Does that make it clearer who is behind www.r34skyline.com? And don't anybody take offence at skyline nuts above, as I'm firmly putting myself in that group as well :-)

[PHaT MR30]

if they cut out imports all together, they can kiss my taxes goodbye, ill be moving to the island of the long cloud.

my imported car(s) mean too much to me. its like a religion

[ian]

if they cut out imports all together, they can kiss my taxes goodbye, ill be moving to the island of the long cloud.

my imported car(s) mean too much to me. its like a religion

Which is clearly what they are trying to do - so that what you get for a car in Aus, and the price you get it at, is left 100% to the manufacture to decide.....

[PHaT MR30]

Which is clearly what they are trying to do - so that what you get for a car in Aus, and the price you get it at, is left 100% to the manufacture to decide.....

can't even bare to think of myself behind the wheel of a chook tin or a commo.