M35 Stagea Dimensions For Lpg

[iamhe77]

I thought LPG only made more power if the timing was advanced.

Yeah, would need a tune to make use of the higher octane of the LPG.

Can't see how just putting it in would make s difference to power in the same way that putting 98 in a car tuned for 95 or 91 makes no difference to power.

The positive of LiLPG is that the economy is practically the same as 98PULP, less than half the price/L and can be tuned to make more power than 98.

[Sage222]

i believe it gets more grunt because of the higher octane (approx 105 - most modern cars increase timing automatically to match the octane used. and of course pull timing out when you use shit fuel).. and secondly the fact that its -42c making the air a lot cooler for better burn rates.

have a read of this:

http://www.lpgli.com/features.html

or google liquid injection lpg for more.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Sage222

[ironpaw]

i believe it gets more grunt because of the higher octane (approx 105 - most modern cars increase timing automatically to match the octane used. and of course pull timing out when you use shit fuel).. and secondly the fact that its -42c making the air a lot cooler for better burn rates.

have a read of this:

http://www.lpgli.com/features.html

or google liquid injection lpg for more.

According to this site you don't need (or can't?) petrol anymore - so you could replace the petrol tank with an LPG one which means you could keep your spare tyre?

[iamhe77]

According to this site you don't need (or can't?) petrol anymore - so you could replace the petrol tank with an LPG one which means you could keep your spare tyre?

FOr a liquid setup, you need petrol for startup.

[samuri]

FOr a liquid setup, you need petrol for startup.

Check the details about going Liquid injection ie direct injection, if a kit hasn't been made for it.

I am being advised to not go down this path

[iamhe77]

Check the details about going Liquid injection ie direct injection, if a kit hasn't been made for it.

I am being advised to not go down this path

I have, over and over again.

The problem is that the LPG vapourises in the lines, thus the need for petrol to get the engine going until the system automatically switches back to LPG

[GoldZilla]

I have, over and over again.

The problem is that the LPG vapourises in the lines, thus the need for petrol to get the engine going until the system automatically switches back to LPG

From what I've read in a few different magazines now, I'm pretty sure that's how the new Commodores are set up - regular petrol on start-up, then switching to LPI once the car is running.

[Sunkist]

From what I've read in a few different magazines now, I'm pretty sure that's how the new Commodores are set up - regular petrol on start-up, then switching to LPI once the car is running.

Ive had bad experiences with LPG. especially in fords... i guess thats coz these cars aren't performance tuned to be smashed around. wouldnt the LPG cause a lot of wear n tear to the engine? and doesnt the gas need to be REGULARLY serviced? like every 1000ks?

these arent facts, just wondering.

[Sage222]

guy at the shop tells me that service is every 50,000ks for the Liquid LPG setup. and yes you need petrol to start.. though you could always run a smaller tank.

[iamhe77]

Ive had bad experiences with LPG. especially in fords... i guess thats coz these cars aren't performance tuned to be smashed around. wouldnt the LPG cause a lot of wear n tear to the engine? and doesnt the gas need to be REGULARLY serviced? like every 1000ks?

these arent facts, just wondering.

I think you are confusing vapour injection with liquid injection there Aaron. Two very different systems of LPG delivery.

The liquid systems are actually kinder on the engines that petrol is due partly to the temp in which it reaches the combustion chamber is much colder than petrol.

I did hear that vapour injections were harder on some engines - particularly valve seats. It that because it removes the cooling properties of liquid? I dunno, but more than a few installers I have spoken to over the years have said the same thing.

[Sunkist]

I think you are confusing vapour injection with liquid injection there Aaron. Two very different systems of LPG delivery.

The liquid systems are actually kinder on the engines that petrol is due partly to the temp in which it reaches the combustion chamber is much colder than petrol.

I did hear that vapour injections were harder on some engines - particularly valve seats. It that because it removes the cooling properties of liquid? I dunno, but more than a few installers I have spoken to over the years have said the same thing.

ohhhhhh..

interesting

[Sage222]

just been speaking my my mate appears the LPG you want is the Liquid Phase injection.

I have attached his dyno chart below on his 2001 T5 Volvo.. as i said before an extra 21kw at the wheels on a completely standard car is not bad at all!

Looks like i am going down this path with my m35

will keep you posted about my findings.

08-06-2009(2).pdf

[ironpaw]

Hmmm, for 5k surely you can hi flow your turbo and new injectors for an E85 setup that would net u more power? Ask Scotty....

[iamhe77]

Fine choice

Look forward to seeing the results.

lol... Ironpaw, you might want to check where Sage222 lives.

Economy would be much more important than power out there.

Edited January 18, 2011 by iamhe77

[Sage222]

yes i hear ya ironpaw though iamhe77 is right.. i am after power AND economy.. not just power.. and gas is half the price of E85

I know E85 is a great alternative though its 20c cheaper than ULP though from what ive read it drinks 20% more too.. so this method is a better option for me.. though not necessarily a better option for everyone

[ironpaw]

Well let us know how you go...if the results are good might convince me too

ahh where do u live again?

Edited January 18, 2011 by ironpaw

[Sage222]

Just made an appointment with Seaview Gas Conversions in melbourne. 5k for the system (minus $1500 in rebates) reckons a day to install. Will go have a chat and check out demensions of the spare wheel well etc..

If all looks good will prob go ahead in a couple of weeks..

I live inner S.E suburbs Melbourne.. so speed cameras galore.. so more interested in keeping fuel costs down than power though if this does both its great!

Just thinking about that dyno sheet.. made 14% more power.. if the stagea is the same (might even be better when i put the dump pipe on) 14% of 206kw is 235kw.. and 467nm.. sounds pretty good to me..

[scotty nm35]

The gains may be minimal as you cant advance the timing yet right?

[Sage222]

i was expecting the gains to be about 10-15%.. the ECU will advance the timing automatically within reason.. (same way it retards it when you put shit fuel in it). all the LPG will do is ensure that the intake temps are always icy cold and that there is plenty of octane available.. the ECU should do the rest.. my mate even ran on pure propane for awhile which has an octane rating of 110 and is a couple of cents cheaper than LPG.

though yes your right to take advantage you would need aftermarket engine management.. i am hoping one day nistune work out the VQ25DET as i much prefer piggyback to completely new ECUs.

[ironpaw]

i was expecting the gains to be about 10-15%.. the ECU will advance the timing automatically within reason.. (same way it retards it when you put shit fuel in it). all the LPG will do is ensure that the intake temps are always icy cold and that there is plenty of octane available.. the ECU should do the rest.. my mate even ran on pure propane for awhile which has an octane rating of 110 and is a couple of cents cheaper than LPG.

though yes your right to take advantage you would need aftermarket engine management.. i am hoping one day nistune work out the VQ25DET as i much prefer piggyback to completely new ECUs.

so LPG + emanage = win?