Na+t Conversion Shop

[Bayside Blue R34 GTV]

Hi guys

Looking to turbocharge my R34 NA very soon but cant seem to find a shop that does that sort of conversions

Place i have tried but no luck:

Re Customs

Race Pace

Status Tunning

Any suggestions guys?

Also a rough total cost (eg parts, labour, tunning) and parts used for those who done the conversions would be helpful

Thanks

Johnson

[xALmoN]

called sabbadin?

[sabbadin]

Jason

give us a buz and we can work out your options

9558 4422

[mad082]

just something to consider, selling your car and buying a GT-T will be cheaper than turboing your NA, and you will have the benfit of (depending on the model of your r34) bigger brakes, stronger gearbox and LSD

[Bayside Blue R34 GTV]

just something to consider, selling your car and buying a GT-T will be cheaper than turboing your NA, and you will have the benfit of (depending on the model of your r34) bigger brakes, stronger gearbox and LSD

Not really looking forward to get a GT-T due to personal issues. and yea, its a r34 GTV so, got bigger brakes and LSD already.

[Bayside Blue R34 GTV]

went to Sabbadin today, so far, Rob has been very helpful, still waiting for the quote.

[N-DAWG]

GTV? Your almost there! Might as well convert it or engine swap.

The hardest part is finding a tuner than so much a mechanic to carry out the conversion as a lot of tuners don't like touching N/A+t's. This will also limit to an extent the ECU used as some tuners are fussy as to what they use. I know I had trouble finding a mechanic/tuner who would do an N/A+t tune, and specially with one well-known mechanic/tuner who further didn't want to run with the GReddy ECU.

Is your car Auto/Manual? Manual will give you more options for ECU, otherwise you're more or less limited to a piggy back style ECU. You could look at sourcing a GTT ECU and Nistune. I think that's what Dori34 is looking at doing with his rebuild.

Option1Garage put a RB25DE NEO in their Silvia 180SX with a GTT ECU, GTT Injectors and a rising rate fuel pressure reg with good results.

Keeping a GTT ECU will also help you with retaining the stock ECU.

Just check if the gearbox is from the GTT model as I'm not sure if the GTV has the stronger box... if not you may want to invest in the near future in replacing or rebuilding the gearbox. I learned this the hard way, but now I have a very quick shifting Tiptronic box with Heavy Duty Kevlar Internals. Quite expensive though, but something to consider when deciding how much power you want to put through it initially as well as the health of the current gearbox.

To answer your question on the cost of the conversion; this can vary greatly depending on what you want out of the car for a start, and how far you want to take it in the future.

A few examples of what will change the cost substantially either way:

Factory Second Hand Turbocharger vs Aftermarket Turbocharger

GTT Injectors vs Aftermarket Hi-Flow Injectors

Factory exhaust piping (front/dump, catback), second hand aftermarket exhaust, brand new aftermarket exhaust

Standalone ECU (eg Apexi PowerFC + Tune) vs Piggy Back ECU (eg GReddy EMU). One costs more but replaces the current ECU, the other may not cost as much (generally) but requires labour time to wire up and then in some cases optional harnesses. Things can balance out here quite easily.

Electronic Boost Controller vs Bleed Valve Boost Controller vs Running straight of the wastegate actuator. You can get around 10PSI with an RB20 Actuator, or 7PSI of the RB25 Actuator. Bleed Valve lets you adjust this, but not with as much control as an Electronic Type which can often cost up to 3 times as much more for say a Profec B Spec II.

That's just a few items that can make a big difference to your budget.

Of course there's going to be power limitations with the RB25DE NEO, at least when retaining reliability. If you're able to source an RB25DET NEO with wiring and ECU, then an engine swap in a GTV could be an attraction option. From there just do your usual bolt-on modifications such as intake, exhaust, FMIC, add a boost controller and Nistune the ECU and you'll get good reliable power with room to make more out of the stock engine.

However, if N/A+t with responsive power is your thing then there's no reason really not to go for an N/A+t conversion unless of course if your expectations power wise are beyond that of the N/A+t.

Weigh up the costs between converting taking into account both parts and labour which can add up VERY quickly and vary greatly from workshop to workshop, then decide which is the better way to go. Also a lot of Bolt On mods can be easily done yourself which can save quite a bit.

[StealthX]

just something to consider, selling your car and buying a GT-T will be cheaper than turboing your NA, and you will have the benfit of (depending on the model of your r34) bigger brakes, stronger gearbox and LSD

GTV? Your almost there! Might as well convert it or engine swap.

The hardest part is finding a tuner than so much a mechanic to carry out the conversion as a lot of tuners don't like touching N/A+t's. This will also limit to an extent the ECU used as some tuners are fussy as to what they use. I know I had trouble finding a mechanic/tuner who would do an N/A+t tune, and specially with one well-known mechanic/tuner who further didn't want to run with the GReddy ECU.

Is your car Auto/Manual? Manual will give you more options for ECU, otherwise you're more or less limited to a piggy back style ECU. You could look at sourcing a GTT ECU and Nistune. I think that's what Dori34 is looking at doing with his rebuild.

Option1Garage put a RB25DE NEO in their Silvia 180SX with a GTT ECU, GTT Injectors and a rising rate fuel pressure reg with good results.

Keeping a GTT ECU will also help you with retaining the stock ECU.

Just check if the gearbox is from the GTT model as I'm not sure if the GTV has the stronger box... if not you may want to invest in the near future in replacing or rebuilding the gearbox. I learned this the hard way, but now I have a very quick shifting Tiptronic box with Heavy Duty Kevlar Internals. Quite expensive though, but something to consider when deciding how much power you want to put through it initially as well as the health of the current gearbox.

To answer your question on the cost of the conversion; this can vary greatly depending on what you want out of the car for a start, and how far you want to take it in the future.

A few examples of what will change the cost substantially either way:

Factory Second Hand Turbocharger vs Aftermarket Turbocharger

GTT Injectors vs Aftermarket Hi-Flow Injectors

Factory exhaust piping (front/dump, catback), second hand aftermarket exhaust, brand new aftermarket exhaust

Standalone ECU (eg Apexi PowerFC + Tune) vs Piggy Back ECU (eg GReddy EMU). One costs more but replaces the current ECU, the other may not cost as much (generally) but requires labour time to wire up and then in some cases optional harnesses. Things can balance out here quite easily.

Electronic Boost Controller vs Bleed Valve Boost Controller vs Running straight of the wastegate actuator. You can get around 10PSI with an RB20 Actuator, or 7PSI of the RB25 Actuator. Bleed Valve lets you adjust this, but not with as much control as an Electronic Type which can often cost up to 3 times as much more for say a Profec B Spec II.

That's just a few items that can make a big difference to your budget.

Of course there's going to be power limitations with the RB25DE NEO, at least when retaining reliability. If you're able to source an RB25DET NEO with wiring and ECU, then an engine swap in a GTV could be an attraction option. From there just do your usual bolt-on modifications such as intake, exhaust, FMIC, add a boost controller and Nistune the ECU and you'll get good reliable power with room to make more out of the stock engine.

However, if N/A+t with responsive power is your thing then there's no reason really not to go for an N/A+t conversion unless of course if your expectations power wise are beyond that of the N/A+t.

Weigh up the costs between converting taking into account both parts and labour which can add up VERY quickly and vary greatly from workshop to workshop, then decide which is the better way to go. Also a lot of Bolt On mods can be easily done yourself which can save quite a bit.

These men speak the truth!

There's good arguments either way, it's probably easier to just do an engine swap or buy a GT-T, but it's definitely do-able to turbo the N/A. I've done the same thing in my car, it's a pain in the ass, but I've had 20,000kms with no issues, with almost double the factory power and 12psi.

[scotty nm35]

Youre not far from the new Eflex Caltex pump, have you considered a turbo fit to the N/A running ethanol to control temps and detonation? If youre planning an ecu upgrade anyway it would make a huge difference.

[Aggroman]

GT+T's are quite reliable and strong if you have a good enough tune..

A few wise words in regards to ECU..

I have gone with the Apexi Power FC, you will have problems with your VCT and the intake manifold valve as there is no way to control it on the ecu.. VCT pinout needs to be altered and a rpm switch is required to get the intake manifold working.. Both of which i am currently working on.. Intake valve can just be set to open (basically the same as a gtt) and vct is just unplugged.. They can be fixed with a few hours work but i havnt had the money to do it yet.

I am running, r34 highflow, 600cc injectors, power fc, FMIC, full 3" exhaust, Blitz EBC, splitfire coilpacks at 18PSI through a rebuilt manual box (260rwkw) and have had no dramas with it at all.. Total cost in parts is about 7.5K including box rebuilt (add another 1k for clutch if you are running stock)

I have done all the labour myself so cannot comment on how much it will cost.. Roughly 2k depending on what needs to be made up to suit. You cannot run the standard GT airbox if you use the factory intercooler piping. Just get a good pod and make a heatshield and you wont have probs.

Yeah not cheap if you go with quality gear. Most of these you will upgrade in the long run anyway so do it once and do it right. instead of wasting hundreds on standard stuff only to bin it later on.

I could say alot more but cbf atm.

[Bayside Blue R34 GTV]

Thanks for the reply guys, very helful.

Looking for around 200kw ATW (prefer 7psi, but nothing less than 10psi)

Want to make it a sleeper

Parts im looking to put onto the car

Apexi PFC

GTT turbo with factory heatshield

GTT manifold with factory heatshield

GTT injectors

GTT Fuel pump or better

Black FMIC (return pipe style) just wondering how noticeble are they on a R34 with Factory Nismo Bumper

CES 3inch Turbo Back Racing Exhaust (due to the stock looking rear muffler)

GTT airbox with good panel filter (as the pod filter really magnifies the turbo spooling noise, not sure how they sound with a heatshield tho)

Been told maybe need to go colder plugs, what heatrange do you guys reckon.

Also been told that its better to go bigger turbo to prevent dotonation as smaller turbo tends cause detonation. ???????????????????? (thought pinging is caused by the amount of boost you put in )

Shops in Melbourne anyone recommends?

Thanks

Johnson

[Bayside Blue R34 GTV]

GT+T's are quite reliable and strong if you have a good enough tune..

A few wise words in regards to ECU..

I have gone with the Apexi Power FC, you will have problems with your VCT and the intake manifold valve as there is no way to control it on the ecu.. VCT pinout needs to be altered and a rpm switch is required to get the intake manifold working.. Both of which i am currently working on.. Intake valve can just be set to open (basically the same as a gtt) and vct is just unplugged.. They can be fixed with a few hours work but i havnt had the money to do it yet.

I am running, r34 highflow, 600cc injectors, power fc, FMIC, full 3" exhaust, Blitz EBC, splitfire coilpacks at 18PSI through a rebuilt manual box (260rwkw) and have had no dramas with it at all.. Total cost in parts is about 7.5K including box rebuilt (add another 1k for clutch if you are running stock)

I have done all the labour myself so cannot comment on how much it will cost.. Roughly 2k depending on what needs to be made up to suit. You cannot run the standard GT airbox if you use the factory intercooler piping. Just get a good pod and make a heatshield and you wont have probs.

Yeah not cheap if you go with quality gear. Most of these you will upgrade in the long run anyway so do it once and do it right. instead of wasting hundreds on standard stuff only to bin it later on.

I could say alot more but cbf atm.

How they go without the VCT? thought the r34 GTT pfc has the vct control build in it, guess i was wrong then. Also how did you go with the oil line for the turbo?

[N-DAWG]

Nice build Aggroman! What was the limit of the GTT Injectors? or did you go straight to 600CC's?

I'm running a R33 Turbo mainly to keep things in budget and it's still going so I won't bother changing it till it needs changing, that way I can save a bit more, plus I need cash for Blue Slips and 1 year rego later this year to tfr to NSW, so the closer to factory the better for now lol

200RWKW on 7PSI with a factory turbo? I don't think you'll achieve that... you'll be wanting to look at 10PSI onwards. Of course many other factors can alter the power output, including the dyno itself. I think you'll find with a GTT Turbo and that set up you'll get around 180 give or take a bit if you up the boost a bit more from 7PSI.

I found, at least in the auto box, the difference between 7PSI and 10PSI is very noticeable!

As for the induction sound, yes quite loud and noticeable with the pod, even with the pod-box, primarily cause of the 10:1 compression causing the turbo to spool so quick. at around 2000RPM cruising in 4th on the auto I can achieve reasonably high boost and induction sound in a second. I'd actually like to look at a larger turbo in the hope of moving the spool up point further up in the rev range and also so I have a fatter mid-range.

If you want a panel filter your biggest issue will be piping. If you go with a SMIC you'll be fine I suppose, but if you want a FMIC unless it has same side return pipe then it won't go with the airbox. A FMIC is a must (In My Opinion) if you're looking at that power level, and if you want future upgradability and running higher boost levels. Keep the temps down is the key to a successful N/A+t and a FMIC will ensure it gets cooler air.

I also found the piping on the charcoal canister to be different on the R34 GT and the pipe out the bottom fouls on the Just Jap air boxes, should you go for a boxed pod filter set up.

As for the oil line, does yours have a blanking bolt on the block like the R33's? Most N/A's don't have this and it needs to be tapped, or taken from another source. I'm fairly sure mine was T-Pieced of the pressure switch... I never really looked properly into how it was done, but oil pressure runs fine and there was no need to tap the block. Don't tap the block without taking the engine out either unless you're willing to risk the damage... you'll find most reputable mechanics won't even consider doing that.

As for water lines, some take it of the heater hose, in my case it was taken from the intake manifold. Make sure you heat wrap those hoses as well, even if going braided lines. Also the lines will need to be custom, or extended off the factory ones.

Speaking of oil and water lines, while you're at it get yourself an oil cooler! Particularly with the NEO's, N/A+t's can see your oil temps soaring in the summer heat and not drop back down in a hurry. I went with a Just Jap Kit, though if you're paying a mechanic then get a reputable Japanese Kit like GReddy, HKS etc.. to ensure a less painful fitment and therefore a cheaper labour bill. I've seen a 10-30 degrees celcius improvement, varying to weather conditions and driving style. On the SAUQLD Charity Cruise last year, one of the hottest days of the year and a long drive, my oil temps got to around 130c.

If for whatever reason you can't source the factory heat shields, ACL HeatShield Material is amazing stuff!! I didn't have the heatshield for my turbo and manifold, and heatsoak after returning to the main road from the motorway was ridiculous! the car was sluggish and heatsoak really took its toll. After boxing up the pod, making a heatshield out of moldable ACL Heatshield material covering the manifold and the turbo, the heatsoak issue pretty much is gone! The silicon intake elbow into the throttle body used to be WAY too hot to even touch, now after driving its warm but I can hold my hand on it without any problems. Just something to consider, and while you've got the manifold on hand it might be worth molding ACL material to that same design to start with as it's great stuff!

WYTSKY has a good DIY on making your own Pod Filter enclosure if you decide to go that way, and this could be a better option than a justjap air box where R34 GT's are concerned. I'm yet to do his DIY with the Cold Air Induction, but I'll want to get that done before summer. That will further stave off hot air under the engine bay of the already hot running NEO engine, particularly now with a turbo on board.

The mod list you've posted is a good start to enable us to help you, but definitely plan ahead if you're looking beyond 200RWKW as before long other issues will also come into play like the factory AFM vs a Z32AFM, or an MAP based system. From what I recall the EMU will support MAP.

Keep asking questions in this thread, there's a decent number of us that have successfully done the N/A+t conversions on RB25DE's and NEO DE's, all at different power levels, factory and aftermarket parts. There's a lot of help to be had in this forum.

[theponyremark]

I heard PowerFC is not good to the Auto-box. This is true, N-DAWG?

[zebra]

PFC wont run the auto box, it will still change gears but very badley and will eventually kill the box.

If you have an Auto then Get NISTUNE.

[iseekool]

Hey guys.

I've been contemplating something similar - but never got to it because its something not so common and I use my car lots (but not as a daily) and is something low in my agenda.

Anyways - I've been thinking to have mine as "stock" as possible - but aim for massive amounts of torque early in the rev range. Think euro cars such as Golf GTI and new BMW 335.

How much torque does your setups produce - Is it similar to 1jz VVTI (late model Soarers)?

[theponyremark]

Thanks for that zebra, any pointers to get a 2nd hand NISTUNE for GTT?

[xALmoN]

Thanks for that zebra, any pointers to get a 2nd hand NISTUNE for GTT?

call status?

[N-DAWG]

I heard PowerFC is not good to the Auto-box. This is true, N-DAWG?

The Auto Shift Logic is in the ECU. Best options are a GT or GTT ECU with a Piggy Back such as a GReddy eManage.

There was an SAUNSW Member that had a GTT with an RB30/26 set up running a standalone and I think an HKS F-Con? I can't remember the exact details, but it worked, but I've heard with HKS that you need an authorised HKS Dealer to tune their gear? Anyways, it worked but would have been a more complicated and expensive way of getting around the Auto situation.

Note that GTT ECU will also be looking for sensors that the RB25DE NEO doesn't have, and vice versa the RB25DE NEO will be trying to communicate with sensors that the RB25DET NEO doesn't have. I'm sure there's ways around this though.

[Kinkstaah]

Word of warning, and a big one. I could make it bigger but I'm disheartened and demoralized as it is to type bigger.

Do not attempt to swap a RB25DET Neo into a N/A AUTO skyline in Victoria. I realise this thread is about GT+T, which will be fine (until you get EPA'ed, and will be owned sideways with an undrivable car unless you remove the turbo) but a natural idea of "why not just put a turbo engine in?".. you will find there are no workshops in Victoria who will complete/take on this job.

Trust me, I know from experience, stuck for a year with a car that's had a swapped engine that looks like it'll never work with the auto box.

The best ultimate advice is to sell the car before you spend money on a GT+T and get EPA'ed, and buy a turbo car. Don't do anything else.