Brake Pedal Hard After Trackday

[Rekin]

Hello all,

Had my first trackday with my car which involved having an instructor take the car out for a spin and then give you pointers etc.

The instructor being a current v8 supercar driver, decided to take my car to its limit around the track to the point where there was brake fade occurring after 3 laps haha

Anyways, after the track day Ive noticed that my brake pedal is very hard now. You need to apply a lot more effort in order to stop the car. After the initial push in of the brake pedal, a lot more pressure has to be applied, with the pedal barely moving, to come to a stop.

Once at a stop, I can push it in a mil to hear the callipers creaking (pistons?)

Any idea what could be the cause of the hard brake pedal and creaking callipers when at stop? Im assuming the pistons are playing up?

Any help would be great!

Cheers

[mr_scary]

What pads are in there? sounds like the same sypmtoms of when my pads overheated at the track. Pulled them out and they had gone all brittle and crumbled at the edges, the creaking was from the pads. I thought it wmight have been pistons too, but new pads fixed it...

[Rekin]

What pads are in there? sounds like the same sypmtoms of when my pads overheated at the track. Pulled them out and they had gone all brittle and crumbled at the edges, the creaking was from the pads. I thought it wmight have been pistons too, but new pads fixed it...

QFM HPX pads. I have been advised by QFM that they arent track pads...maybe the instructor killed them? haha

[xALmoN]

pad glazing?

[Moodles2]

Trackday and HPX do not go together, it's a hard lesson but next trackday actually come prepared with track friendly pads not street pads.

[mr_scary]

QFM HPX pads. I have been advised by QFM that they arent track pads...maybe the instructor killed them? haha

Yep, those pads are cooked. Funnily enough, I had HPX on mine and was my first trackday too... haha

An A1RM/PMu HC+ style pad is probably the minimum you want for trackdays depending on how hard you push

[Rekin]

pad glazing?

will look into some new pads. cheers

Trackday and HPX do not go together, it's a hard lesson but next trackday actually come prepared with track friendly pads not street pads.

haha yes thats true! Used to have a1rm's on the car but killed the rotors before i saw a trackday. Put in some HPX, and now the trackday may have killed them! Gotta stop trying to find a one pad fits all and just change them over between street and track

Yep, those pads are cooked. Funnily enough, I had HPX on mine and was my first trackday too... haha

An A1RM/PMu HC+ style pad is probably the minimum you want for trackdays depending on how hard you push

cheers for advice. Wasnt planning on killing them but I fear thats what the instructor probably did! Will replace pads

Thanks all

[Sheriff Wan]

Flush the brake fluid too, probably cooked that aswell

[gslrallysport]

Gotta stop trying to find a one pad fits all

The A1RM fits all but very serious track work, but has slightly higher than normal rotor wear, which for some people find excessive for street use.

and just change them over between street and track

That we're not a fan of unless you're also changing rotors, and having a matched set of pads/rotors. Modern pad materials are VERY reliant on having their own material on the rotor to work properly. We have quite a large problem with people switching between a high organic compound pad (like TRW) to the A1RM, then complaining the TRWs were better because the A1RM are very lackluster in performance. Given that performance wise the A1RM are much much better, it comes purely down to the A1RM not working on the material the TRW has laid down onto the rotor already. Just be careful as to what pads you switch on the same set of rotors, or you may defeat the point of switching pads in the first place. We've found HPX/A1RM to be fine, can't really comment on too many other combinations, other than the above mentioned TRW/A1RM NOT working...

I'm not anti-TRW either, and in fact we do quite a bit of them, and I've previously ran them on alot of my cars, both street and clubsport, so I'm not bagging them out for one second, just they're a very different pad to A1RM...

[siksII]

The A1RM fits all but very serious track work, but has slightly higher than normal rotor wear, which for some people find excessive for street use.

Just be careful as to what pads you switch on the same set of rotors, or you may defeat the point of switching pads in the first place. We've found HPX/A1RM to be fine, can't really comment on too many other combinations, other than the above mentioned TRW/A1RM NOT working...

I would suggest that generally when going from a less aggressive to more aggressive pad people shouldnt have a problem - the other way around can be more of a struggle.

I can confirm that all the following combos are fine (all going from street to track pads on same rotors)

ebc red stuff - hawk ht-10

ferodo ds performance - hawk dtc 60/70

ferodo ds2500 - hawk dtc 60

ferodo ds2500 - hawk ht 10

ferodo ds2500 - ferodo ds3000

hawk hp plus - hawk dtc 60/70

Adding to this, I know plenty of people (including myself) who all swap street to track pads with the same rotors who dont have a problem and have been doing so for years. Its not necessary to to swap rotors along with pads, it would make more sense to find a pad combo that works.

[Rekin]

The A1RM fits all but very serious track work, but has slightly higher than normal rotor wear, which for some people find excessive for street use.

That we're not a fan of unless you're also changing rotors, and having a matched set of pads/rotors. Modern pad materials are VERY reliant on having their own material on the rotor to work properly. We have quite a large problem with people switching between a high organic compound pad (like TRW) to the A1RM, then complaining the TRWs were better because the A1RM are very lackluster in performance. Given that performance wise the A1RM are much much better, it comes purely down to the A1RM not working on the material the TRW has laid down onto the rotor already. Just be careful as to what pads you switch on the same set of rotors, or you may defeat the point of switching pads in the first place. We've found HPX/A1RM to be fine, can't really comment on too many other combinations, other than the above mentioned TRW/A1RM NOT working...

I'm not anti-TRW either, and in fact we do quite a bit of them, and I've previously ran them on alot of my cars, both street and clubsport, so I'm not bagging them out for one second, just they're a very different pad to A1RM...

I would suggest that generally when going from a less aggressive to more aggressive pad people shouldnt have a problem - the other way around can be more of a struggle.

I can confirm that all the following combos are fine (all going from street to track pads on same rotors)

ebc red stuff - hawk ht-10

ferodo ds performance - hawk dtc 60/70

ferodo ds2500 - hawk dtc 60

ferodo ds2500 - hawk ht 10

ferodo ds2500 - ferodo ds3000

hawk hp plus - hawk dtc 60/70

Adding to this, I know plenty of people (including myself) who all swap street to track pads with the same rotors who dont have a problem and have been doing so for years. Its not necessary to to swap rotors along with pads, it would make more sense to find a pad combo that works.

Thanks for the insight guys! Some valuable information there!

[siksII]

Thanks for the insight guys! Some valuable information there!

No probs, I forgot to answer your initial question! Should be the pads, if it was fluid the pedal would be soft.

Pads that cant handle much heat can get permanently cooked/fall apart just from one thrashing and it sounds like thats what has happened

If you can be bothered, post some pics of the pads once you have them out.

[Russman]

Pat.

You know my car and what I do with it. I've been using A1RMs for about 2 years and that includes 2 superlaps, 3 wintons, 2 sandowns, bout 6 Deca's. Very little road use.

I've had 310mm RDA slotted and dimpled rotors too.

The rotors now have no slots left on them! I've been through 3 set's of A1RM's in that time.

I'm suprised you found them too hard on rotors because I picked them because they are cheap and easy on rotors. For the abuse I've given my car the rotors have lasted well.

I would have thought that A1RM's would have been a good choice for your car?

Make sure you flush with good fluid too as that is the source of most brake problems. I use RBF 600 motul.

Hope that helps.

BTW: who was the driver?

[Roy]

Have you actually measured the rotors Russman? Sometimes pad deposits in the slots make people think they are worn off but actually just have heavy pad deposits in them?!?!?

[Rekin]

Pat.

You know my car and what I do with it. I've been using A1RMs for about 2 years and that includes 2 superlaps, 3 wintons, 2 sandowns, bout 6 Deca's. Very little road use.

I've had 310mm RDA slotted and dimpled rotors too.

The rotors now have no slots left on them! I've been through 3 set's of A1RM's in that time.

I'm suprised you found them too hard on rotors because I picked them because they are cheap and easy on rotors. For the abuse I've given my car the rotors have lasted well.

I would have thought that A1RM's would have been a good choice for your car?

Make sure you flush with good fluid too as that is the source of most brake problems. I use RBF 600 motul.

Hope that helps.

BTW: who was the driver?

I was using A1RM's as a daily pad. I was informed by QFM national sales manager that they are very harsh on rotors when they are cold. Hence why they chewed through my rotors really quickly as they did the most damage on cold mornings etc (chewed through my new rotors in 20,000km) He advised me to use HPX pads as a street/daily pad but they would fade on the track.

The majority of the time, i was using the pads outside their ideal temp range and hence the premature rotor life. As you would be using the pads at their ideal temperature on the racetrack, you would have less rotor wear.

Luke Youlden was the instructor, very good teacher

[Russman]

Have you actually measured the rotors Russman? Sometimes pad deposits in the slots make people think they are worn off but actually just have heavy pad deposits in them?!?!?

Yep. Also running out of pad at sandown a while back didn't help...

The majority of the time, i was using the pads outside their ideal temp range and hence the premature rotor life.

Ahh. That makes sense.

[gslrallysport]

I was using A1RM's as a daily pad. I was informed by QFM national sales manager that they are very harsh on rotors when they are cold. Hence why they chewed through my rotors really quickly as they did the most damage on cold mornings etc (chewed through my new rotors in 20,000km) He advised me to use HPX pads as a street/daily pad but they would fade on the track.

Yep, that's pretty much the guts of it. But (at least from my point of view, and not just trying to defend the A1RM here) the A1RM is cheap enough, that even if you went through rotors twice as quick, you're pretty much at the same level as having to buy a $300 race pad from one brand, and a $100 street pad from another, and you haven't had to worry about changing pads between street/track, or their compatibility between compounds...

[Rekin]

update: mechanic pulled out my brake pads and noticed that the caliper dust boots were melted. Need to be replaced now ~_~

[Roy]

No biggie. You basically have to do that every 2 years anyway if you are tracking your car They only normally last about 2,000km of track work ...though there are many variables

[siksII]

It happens These are of a friend's car, so far mine have held up well.