Incorrect/confusing Fine, Need Help Badly.

[R33 Eddy]

Stupid question but did you even use your indicators when changing lanes?

[Darkplague]

Stupid question but did you even use your indicators when changing lanes?

lol yes ofcourse. I always indicate, shits me to tears when people dont.

[Jay11]

From looking at that map I'd take it as a merging lane and I'd expect if I was merging onto that road for someone to show common courtesy and change lanes for me while I'm entering or if I'm in front of them for them to let me in.

I wouldn't stop and give way coz that's a pretty long lane for other road users to see you merging onto that road.

What ever happened to common courtesy on the roads?

[Smity42]

From looking at that map I'd take it as a merging lane and I'd expect if I was merging onto that road for someone to show common courtesy and change lanes for me while I'm entering or if I'm in front of them for them to let me in.

I wouldn't stop and give way coz that's a pretty long lane for other road users to see you merging onto that road.

What ever happened to common courtesy on the roads?

Was there ever any common courtesy on QLD roads? I've never seen it...

If there is ever a situation where you should go with benefit of the doubt when giving way, it's when your in a skyline and the guy you should be giving way to is a cop.

The rule is clear cut. There is a give way line there, he needs to give way. He's not going to get out of the fine on the basis that it would have been 'courteous' for the cop to let him in.

[Jay11]

Well I think it's a pretty harsh and pointless fine, if it happened to me I'd be pissed off too.

You should become a cop then mate.

So you're telling me this entrance here is a give way too?

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.9614,153.35...mp;nmd=20100720

I take that entrance every week to uni. It's an 80k zone merging to a 100k zone... it has the same lines as the other one, it's even shorter.... you're gonna tell me that the mergers have to stop and give way and potentially get rear ended coz the people behind are almost going 100 to get onto that road, then when the person thinks it's safe and hasn't somehow been rear ended they have to go from 0-100 as fast as possible coz it's a busy road, therefore almost causing two accidents....

[Darkplague]

From looking at that map I'd take it as a merging lane and I'd expect if I was merging onto that road for someone to show common courtesy and change lanes for me while I'm entering or if I'm in front of them for them to let me in.

I wouldn't stop and give way coz that's a pretty long lane for other road users to see you merging onto that road.

What ever happened to common courtesy on the roads?

This. ^

Was there ever any common courtesy on QLD roads? I've never seen it...

If there is ever a situation where you should go with benefit of the doubt when giving way, it's when your in a skyline and the guy you should be giving way to is a cop.

The rule is clear cut. There is a give way line there, he needs to give way. He's not going to get out of the fine on the basis that it would have been 'courteous' for the cop to let him in.

90% of the time people will be courteous and let you in but i guess this doesnt apply to cops.

I got a cop in a bad mood, who was in a rush to join every other cop in australia at a small bingle 500 meters up the road. I guess i just have to deal with it and take it... Unless im positive i would win its not worth taking to court, will just end up having to pay fine and court fees.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Darkplague

[Smity42]

Well I think it's a pretty harsh and pointless fine, if it happened to me I'd be pissed off too.

Agreed. But seriously, who drives a skyline and HASN'T had a harsh and pointless (although legal) fine?

So you're telling me this entrance here is a give way too?

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.9614,153.35...mp;nmd=20100720

Absolutely.

I take that entrance every week to uni. It's an 80k zone merging to a 100k zone... it has the same lines as the other one, it's even shorter.... you're gonna tell me that the mergers have to stop and give way and potentially get rear ended coz the people behind are almost going 100 to get onto that road, then when the person thinks it's safe and hasn't somehow been rear ended they have to go from 0-100 as fast as possible coz it's a busy road, therefore almost causing two accidents....

No, you do not have to STOP and give way, you just need to give way. Please not the difference between "Give way" and "Stop".

"Give Way" is indicated by a give way sign, or a dotted line, or any other scenario in the road rules requiring you to give way to somebody. In order to give way to them, basically you should not get in their way. The technical definition is something along the lines of "The driver that you are giving way to should not have to take any action to avoid hitting you untill you reach the speed of traffic".

"Stop" is indicated by a stop sign, or a SOLID line. In this case you must bring your vehicle to a COMPLETE STOP and THEN give way as neccessary.

In the case of both these examples it is a give way line not a stop line. So you do not need to stop, but you do need to give way. In the case of merging at speed (80, 100, whatever), that means getting up to the same speed as the traffic, and slotting into a gap. Unfortunately, only about 1% of our population know how to do that. The other 99% speed up to about 20ks slower than the traffic is moving and try to barge in, causing the traffic on the highway to have to slow down, and eventually causing congestion.

In heavy traffic yes, courteous people will open a gap for you, but they are not obligated to and if they don't then you can't just barge in. Clearly the cop in question DIDN'T willing open a gap or he wouldn't have given out a ticket.

On a related note, I recently did a competiton of sorts with another car club, the subject matter was road rules. Simple stuff like giving way, what different road markings mean etc. None of them were very difficult, My team mate and I won with 100% correct. However, almost everyone else participating got about 1/3 to 1/2 of them wrong. I was stunned at the time, I couldn't understand how so many people with driving licences can be so unaware of what the road rules are.

Seeing this thread makes it even more clear that people don't know the basic road rules. What we have here is an absolutely clear cut give way scenario that seems to have every man and his dog confused, as well as people not knowing that "give way" doens't mean "stop", etc. (This is not targeted at one person in particular, more than one have made that mistake in this thread). It's no wonder there is so much chaos on our roads!

I do take heart from the fact that you all DO seem to fall in the 1% of people know how to merge at speed .

90% of the time people will be courteous and let you in but i guess this doesnt apply to cops.

I got a cop in a bad mood, who was in a rush to join every other cop in australia at a small bingle 500 meters up the road. I guess i just have to deal with it and take it... Unless im positive i would win its not worth taking to court, will just end up having to pay fine and court fees.

I feel for you, but there is absolutely no way you will win this in court, unless you have independant witnesses who will verify the cop was far enough behind when you merged that he did not have to take any action to avoid you.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Smity42

[Beelzebub89]

<3 Martin.

[Lazy-Bastard]

if he merged before the bike and the bike didn't need to slow down then there is no issue. I suspect the cop was just being a prick

[Jay11]

No need to be condescending mate, I know the difference between a stop and a give way.

But if you don't merge in properly and instead "give way" then you end up stopping because the entrance is so short that by the time you are going 100k and giving way then you end up off the road, which is why people in the end are going 20k's under and merge on which defeats the purpose of it all.

Sounds like you just described exactly what darkplague has done - got up to speed and "slot" in a gap.

I just think it's stupid how the law is that they don't have to let you in, coz that leaves three options if someone isn't courteous:

1. Slow down until someone else lets you in or there is a gap (which 90% of the time you end up having to stop, which is what I meant by stopping while giving way.)

2. Stay up to speed and do 100k along the side of the road hoping for a gap even though the merge lane has ended haha.

or

3. Make your way in ("barge" so to speak).

Fair enough it's different for every circumstance, but this one sounds like the cop was just being a douche.

But yeah there's noway you'll win in court, if everyone was courteous (including the copper), then it would all be fine

Anyway the question has been answered though, and unfortunately it's illegal.

[Beelzebub89]

No need to be condescending mate, I know the difference between a stop and a give way.

But if you don't merge in properly and instead "give way" then you end up stopping because the entrance is so short that by the time you are going 100k and giving way then you end up off the road, which is why people in the end are going 20k's under and merge on which defeats the purpose of it all.

Sounds like you just described exactly what darkplague has done - got up to speed and "slot" in a gap.

I just think it's stupid how the law is that they don't have to let you in, coz that leaves three options if someone isn't courteous:

1. Slow down until someone else lets you in or there is a gap (which 90% of the time you end up having to stop, which is what I meant by stopping while giving way.)

2. Stay up to speed and do 100k along the side of the road hoping for a gap even though the merge lane has ended haha.

or

3. Make your way in ("barge" so to speak).

Fair enough it's different for every circumstance, but this one sounds like the cop was just being a douche.

But yeah there's noway you'll win in court, if everyone was courteous (including the copper), then it would all be fine

Anyway the question has been answered though, and unfortunately it's illegal.

There would be much more chaos on the roads if people had to watch out for others merging and give way to them lol. One thing that the majority of people miss out on is you must accelerate to merge. Unfortunately 69% of road users are unable to look for oncoming traffic, accelerate up to the posted speed and merge safely hence we end up with retards stopped at the end of these merging lanes/slip lanes trying to merge from a stop into 80km/hr traffic.

[Darkplague]

There would be much more chaos on the roads if people had to watch out for others merging and give way to them lol. One thing that the majority of people miss out on is you must accelerate to merge. Unfortunately 69% of road users are unable to look for oncoming traffic, accelerate up to the posted speed and merge safely hence we end up with retards stopped at the end of these merging lanes/slip lanes trying to merge from a stop into 80km/hr traffic.

That being said, when someone tries to merge onto a highway (for example), how many people here actualy slow down/speed up or change lanes to let that person merge onto the highway. Id rather let them in or get out of the way then have them stop or try to force there way in.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Darkplague

[Jay11]

Did you just make up that percentage? haha.

I get where you're coming from, but personally I change lanes to let people in.

Obviously if someone is stopped at the end of a merge lane then you wouldn't give way to them.

All I'm saying is if someone had slowed down a little or changed lanes in the first place to let them in then it would make it a bit easier for these retarded people and they wouldn't end up stopping completely.

But as I said it's different for every circumstance.

For all we know the story told could have been totally different...

[Beelzebub89]

Yeah I agree courtesy helps. I tend to let people in/avoid merging lanes when I'm on the highway to make it easier for the aforementioned retards. But when we are talking legal disputes everything is to the letter of the law and in this case the law is not on your side.

Oh and yeah I made up the percentage. Everyone else says 80 n 90% and nobody mentions anything about bullshit statistics so I thought I'd just throw out a random number. Statistics show that 11/8 people don't understand fractions. True story. I read it on the internet.

[Smity42]

Why is everyone assuming there is heavy traffic? My impression when I read the first post was the road was more or less empty:

Basicly i was coming off a highway where the offramp merges with a main road rather suddenly, i checked side and rear mirrors as i was coming off and saw no one, just before i merged i looked beside me and in my side view mirror and still no one, so i merged.

Saw no one with all those mirror and sholder checks? Road can't have been that busy. Where was the cop bike during all this I wonder?

No need to be condescending mate, I know the difference between a stop and a give way.

I beg to differ:

you're gonna tell me that the mergers have to stop and give way and potentially get rear ended coz the people behind are almost going 100 to get onto that road, then when the person thinks it's safe and hasn't somehow been rear ended they have to go from 0-100 as fast as possible coz it's a busy road, therefore almost causing two accidents....

But if you don't merge in properly and instead "give way" then you end up stopping because the entrance is so short that by the time you are going 100k and giving way then you end up off the road, which is why people in the end are going 20k's under and merge on which defeats the purpose of it all.

This is called "Doing it wrong".

Sounds like you just described exactly what darkplague has done - got up to speed and "slot" in a gap.

That's not the impression I got from reading what he wrote, but I wasn't there so I don't know.

I just think it's stupid how the law is that they don't have to let you in, coz that leaves three options if someone isn't courteous:

1. Slow down until someone else lets you in or there is a gap (which 90% of the time you end up having to stop, which is what I meant by stopping while giving way.)

2. Stay up to speed and do 100k along the side of the road hoping for a gap even though the merge lane has ended haha.

or

3. Make your way in ("barge" so to speak).

It's a perfectly sensible law, it's the people implementing it that are the issue...

When merging onto a highway that is flowing there is ALWAYS gaps, it's just a matter of finding one and fitting in. If someone is not courteous and doens't let you in, you go behind them. This might mean you have to slow down a bit to find the gap, but you should be back at the same speed when you slot into it. It's not rocket science.

I've never had any issues merging into a highway/etc that is flowing. Obviously if it's heavy traffic and the highway is not flowing (usually due to people failing to merge properly when it was) then obviously it is a completely different scenario. Technically, the guys on the highway that you are merging into don't have to let you in at all, but most people will start going 1-for-1 from each lane that is merging.

Fair enough it's different for every circumstance, but this one sounds like the cop was just being a douche.

But yeah there's noway you'll win in court, if everyone was courteous (including the copper), then it would all be fine

Anyway the question has been answered though, and unfortunately it's illegal.

Truth.

[Smity42]

There would be much more chaos on the roads if people had to watch out for others merging and give way to them lol. One thing that the majority of people miss out on is you must accelerate to merge. Unfortunately 69% of road users are unable to look for oncoming traffic, accelerate up to the posted speed and merge safely hence we end up with retards stopped at the end of these merging lanes/slip lanes trying to merge from a stop into 80km/hr traffic.

Truth. Except I think you give way too much credit thinking that 31% do manage to merge properly.

That being said, when someone tries to merge onto a highway (for example), how many people here actualy slow down/speed up or change lanes to let that person merge onto the highway. Id rather let them in or get out of the way then have them stop or try to force there way in.

I'll change lanes (where the lane over is empty) or give a slight lift to help make a gap a bit bigger. If you have to do any more than that, then they are merging wrong (probably not up to the right speed).

People slowing down on highways to let people who haven't got up to speed properly in is what causes all the merge points to get congested in peak hour.

Did you just make up that percentage? haha.

87.3579% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I get where you're coming from, but personally I change lanes to let people in.

If the lane beside you is free, this is a courteous thing to do. I do the same thing.

All I'm saying is if someone had slowed down a little or changed lanes in the first place to let them in then it would make it a bit easier for these retarded people and they wouldn't end up stopping completely.

Changing lanes is OK. Slowing down (more than a slight lift) is what causes congestion. Don't do it. If the retards can't get up to speed, don't let them in. Maybe one day they will learn how to do it properly.

But as I said it's different for every circumstance.

For all we know the story told could have been totally different...

Mmmm, I don't think we'll ever be sure what happened there. But I am certain that the fine is legal and the OP won't get out of it from going to court.

Statistics show that 11/8 people don't understand fractions.

*HEADSPLODE*

[ToMMaH]

"The driver that you are giving way to should not have to take any action to avoid hitting you untill you reach the speed of traffic".

So if you merge/giveway into the lane at the speed of that lane then according to that you should be fine.

[Beelzebub89]

Pretty much. Unfortunately for OP the copper has obviously taken the stance that he had to do more than what should be necessary to avoid hitting the merging car. Cops word against yours. You lost the game.

[Smity42]

So if you merge/giveway into the lane at the speed of that lane then according to that you should be fine.

Correct.

Edit: Assuming of course that you are merging into a gap, and not merging into a car/bike/truck etc

Pretty much. Unfortunately for OP the copper has obviously taken the stance that he had to do more than what should be necessary to avoid hitting the merging car. Cops word against yours. You lost the game.

Yep. Guilty until proven innoccent. Don't you love traffic law?

Edited October 19, 2010 by Smity42

[PHT34]

Ive lived within 3 km's of this for 25 years .....

Every other day you get people thinking they can just come striaght across and nearly causing accidents, of course there is give and take but if your on the main road you shouldnt have to decrease your speed to let them in, if needed you have to almost stop at the end of the lane. yes, you will either cause traffic to bank up and crack the shits behind you or probably have someone run up your bum but thats how it is .....

you should have been doing about 60 which is the offramp limit after it splits off to go to northlakes back closer to the highway .....

if for one second the cop had to brake, swerve or thought about doing either and yeah a skyline then he was gonna pull you over and you wont win unless you could prove that you were miles in front of the cop .....

i nearly took out a bike cop when changing lanes in my old lancer i looked and everything, gave me a damm good talking to when he pulled me over, no ticket though, lucky .....