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Nitrous Purging

Redback

By Redback,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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nath_gtir Rookie

nath_gtir

Posted
Posted

Gojira: I was making the point it is not flammable in its own right by explaining how it replaces pure O2 in the combustion process but that web page is very interesting. The author really empahsizes the fact that N2O actually increases oxygen availability, if this was the case then why dont we just use pure O2 instead of N2O? Oxygen is a smaller molecule and there would be more oxygen in the same space without nitrogen to get in the road? Also I dont think that people who shoot NOs into thier engine need to run richer.

I would envisage that the N2O, under certain conditions, would break down to Nitrogen and an Oxyanion (single oxygen atom with excess electrons). This Oxyanion is very unstable (compared to an oxygen molecule) and wants to get rid of the excess electrons and does it with a great release of energy by bonding to a carbon atom or even a couple of hydrogen atoms and hence more energy produced per unit fuel.

I have used nitrous oxide in instruments before (to atomise and evaporate metals). Just as a comparison the flame from an acetylene nitrous oxide mix compared to the of a oxygen and acetylene mix is a lot more hotter from the same fuel mix and flow rates.

Sorry to go on like that but take it or leave it. Wouldn't it be funny to vent the nitrous near a group of people and actually just watch them start to get high from the mild anaesthetic effects of nitrous (laughing gas). I dont recommend it though!

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted

2rismo: This thread makes me cry. Seriously. I'm not even going to go back and reply to all those misinformed posts... It would take me way too long.

nath_gtir: The reason why N2O is used instead of pure oxygen, is because pure oxygen is a flammable in it's own right and quite dangerous to be spraying around the engine bay. Also, the Nitrogen component (when it breaks down into N, N and O) has a EXTREME cooling effect on the intake charge, much more so than pure oxygen would. This obviously creates a much denser intake charge, also raising the detonation threshold.

You can't go around spraying automotive grade nitrous oxide at people because it has been poisoned by the manufacturer with 1ppm (parts per million) of sulfur dioxide to deliberately stop people going to their race store and buying laughing gas to use at parties... If you inhale enough to make yourself all happy, it won't last long as you'll soon be keeled over throwing up :wave:

DJ984 Mentor

DJ984

Posted
Posted

lol... that would be funny... he he he... but yeah... i wouldn't recommend it either...

Also: ihavn't looked at the page yet so maybe i should but i thought:

*Logically nitrous oxide contains oxygen (thus oxide)...

*the mix was used to cool the intake temperature down

Thus, the nitrous oxide does a few things:

*Cools the air teperature

*In doing so, makes the air denser, which means there's more of it and it fires better

*increases the oxygen levels....

is this somewhere near the mark or do i have no idea what-so-ever about what i'm saying and i should shut up now to avoid further embarassment???

cheers,

Dave.

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted

DJ984: You have to think about what part is doing what things.

N2O is injected as a fine atomised spray into the intake piping/intake runners... As it approaches the cylinders it heats up and breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen.

The nitrogen:

* MASSIVELY cools down the intake air resulting in denser charge, and as a result... More power.

* The denser charge also acts as a detonation inhibitor so the Oxygen can do it's thing.

The oxygen:

* after breaking down into pure O atoms, are very flammable. And along with increased fuel to burn these new O atoms, you get....... More power.

So both parts of the N2O molecules play a very important part in the process.

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted
damn merli, you answered my questions before i asked them.... lol... must've typed at the same time... lol

Oh :D I thought you were a bit slow there, and didn't understand so I retyped it out in baby steps for you :wave::):D

DJ984 Mentor

DJ984

Posted
Posted

yeah... that's exactly what i thought... i just wasn't to good at wording it... lol

just for purging sake though...('cause i like rice *shame on me*...lol) the C02 won't kill anyone will it (not that i'm gonna purge it often and not that i'm gonna aim it at people either...)...

When i get the FMIC, i wanna get one of those Ntercooler kits and get a couple of purge valves so it does it just like in 2F2F (sad, i know... but it looks soooo damn koool....)

So the C02 will be used to cool the intercooler above certain boost levels/throttle levels/revs etc etc... and then there'll be a ricie purging just to show off...

DJ984 Mentor

DJ984

Posted
Posted

i don't wanna hook real nitrous up to the engine because if the cops see that then i can say bye bye INSURANCE; REGO; CAR; LISCENCE etc... (may have exagerated a lil but you get the point...)...

Or are you suggesting i use nitrous in the spray kit instead of carbon dioxide?

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted

No, if you just wanted to spray, definitely use the cheaper CO2.

But you realise that it isn't illegal to have nitrous INSTALLED in your car right? It's only illegal to have to bottle hooked up in your car whilst driving on public roads. Just use the car as normal when driving, and when you hit the drag strip, hook that baby up and see those times drop like an anchor!

Just ask 2rismo :wave:

Where you might come to grief is that your insurance company might not like that idea (some do, some don't)... Most people don't tell their insurance about nitrous :) But it's PERFECTLY legal to have installed in your car.

DJ984 Mentor

DJ984

Posted
Posted

ooooh! now where talking good ideas!

yeah, i definately waanna use C02 in the spray kit... (cheaper for purging/wasting)...

then i might look at doing exatly that for when i get on the drag strip...

What's the easiest way to have it disconnected for street and connected for strip?... would you say just close the bottle with the nozzle on it and take the tube off when i'm on the street; then plug in the tube and open the nozzle for the strip? or is there a better way?

Also: If i want to hook N2O up to the engine; what else should i do? Or will it be ok? (i'm guessing not???) Is it true that i can have it tuned to automatically inject the N2O once it hits a certain rev point?... (rather than using a button like in "TF&TF/2F2F")...

cheers...

Steve Grand Master

Steve

Posted
Posted

just buy a purge system and fit up some LP gas, much cheaper and you can fill up when you get petrol:p

will do the same job, and you could wire in a spark plug to really impress the chicks at night - also very handy if you cant find a cigarette lighter - I am sure there would be more uses, like if you drive near a swamp and there are lots of mossies around, getting cats out of trees etc

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted
What's the easiest way to have it disconnected for street and connected for strip?... would you say just close the bottle with the nozzle on it and take the tube off when i'm on the street; then plug in the tube and open the nozzle for the strip? or is there a better way?

That works just fine, but make sure you screw in a little plug to plug off the end of that nitrous line to contaminants don't get in there...

I think cops will still be very testy if they find the nitrous bottle in your boot, so I never ever drive around with it in my boot unless I'm headed to the drags. The less ammo you give the cops the better IMHO.

Also: If i want to hook N2O up to the engine; what else should i do? Or will it be ok? (i'm guessing not???)  Is it true that i can have it tuned to automatically inject the N2O once it hits a certain rev point?... (rather than using a button like in "TF&TF/2F2F")...

cheers...

Kinda... What you want is for it to only come on at WOT (full throttle)... So you can either use an electronic output from your ECU (if you have microtech, autronic or something like that) or just hook up a microswitch onto your throttle body that turns on at full throttle. If you have it hooked up like that, just don't go 100% throttle unril you hit your desired rev point (usually 3000rpm) EASY! :wave:

DJ984 Mentor

DJ984

Posted
Posted
just buy a purge system and fit up some LP gas, much cheaper and you can fill up when you get petrol

will do the same job, and you could wire in a spark plug to really impress the chicks at night - also very handy if you cant find a cigarette lighter - I am sure there would be more uses, like if you drive near a swamp and there are lots of mossies around, getting cats out of trees etc

lol... nah, think i'll just stick with the C02... that'll cool the intercooler better i think... but nice thinking... lol

Merli: yeah, i just thought after i posted "maybee only put the bottle in the boot when your gonna go to the strip and use it..." lol

But, yeah... didn't think about plugging the tube... thanks...

So i can use the standard computer and hook up a "microswitch".. to inject NO2 at WOT?... that sounds like what i want....

What about engine wise?... should i do anything to the engine or will it be alright?...

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted
So i can use the standard computer and hook up a "microswitch".. to inject NO2 at WOT?... that sounds like what i want....

What about engine wise?... should i do anything to the engine or will it be alright?...

Yep, stock computer will be fine... Engine will be fine, just stick to a 50hp shot or less...

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