Is There Any Benefit To This Turbo Set Up?

[W0rp3D]

A lot of ppl are talking about how there will be a shit load of lag, here is a video that will argue that point with you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnFA93_U9hY

[W0rp3D]

And one on a corvette that is a little more complicated.

[Peter89]

A lot of ppl are talking about how there will be a shit load of lag, here is a video that will argue that point with you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnFA93_U9hY

there's no intercooler on that setup. no lag but no boost either.

another bad point. the air intake is under the car where dirt, dust, water will cover the pod filter even if it is covered, id rather not being drawing air from under the car.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Peter89

[dori34]

^^ looks interesting, whos the bloke in the FI section doing this to his car, neone got a link to his thread?

[slyd007]

not goin to argue how a turbo works . go read a book instead of the internet

on another note of someone came to me and had lots of money and wanted this id be happy to do it and he is obvoiusly happy with it

what books are you reading?? or someone has tricked you were an apprentice no offence.

[lachlanw]

^^ is that missing a word ? doesnt make sence .

stand by my prevoius comment . go and read a book

[lachlanw]

http://www.davidenglish.com/swift/Tech/Man...old_design.html

scroll down to heat loss . will find more examples on the internet for those retards that havent read a book this year

[bubba]

[lachlanw]

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Turbocharger?t=8.

read 7.3. Comparison to supercharging

The turbine section of the turbocharger is actually a heat engine in itself. It converts the heat of the exhaust into power used to drive the compressor, thereby providing a more efficient compression of the intake air than can happen with supercharger, which uses up net engine power to drive its air compressor

read a book

you might learn something

hence are all cars tuned lean (>15afr) on spool up

[W0rp3D]

There is a big difference between reading a book and practical experience, if everyone went by the book no one would be experimenting and every one would be doing the same thing, put the book down and pick up some tools.

[lachlanw]

your arguin for the sake of arguing . get a life

i made a statement which was challenged and i provided evidence .

will not comment again so dont bother

[lachlanw]

lol at that video . gave up after first minute

"exhaust spins the impeller" wtf is this a jet unit off a boat or something ?

"air gets compressed here " yeah because air exits a turbo already compressed

[W0rp3D]

your arguin for the sake of arguing . get a life

i made a statement which was challenged and i provided evidence .

will not comment again so dont bother

LOL, a book is evidence? Now find some practical evidence instead of a book that only goes off one persons point of view with no real association to the overall set up discussed in this thread.

It's also worth pointing out that there is a lot of people on here that have real world experience with turbos and don't believe this will work but not one is willing to back you on your 80% theory, that says more than any book you can buy.

[VB-]

gonna side with lachlan on this one about the heat thing (dissagree about all cars being lean for spool though). to put it in its simplest form, heat is a form of energy, if it is all lost before it gets to the turbo, there will be less energy acting upon the exhaust turbine.

that said i do have faith in rear mount sytems and they have been proven to work, and work pretty well in some cases. with correct sized turbos the heat issue can be overcome for the most part.

there was a huge debate on this on NS a while back. short answer, no.

-increased intercooler piping thus more lag.

-increased risk of turbo damage.

-decreased life span of the turbo. whenever it rains the turbo will be sprayed with water. since the inside of the exhaust hosing will be around 900c yet the outside is being sprayed with cool water, the great temperature difference is likely to cause cracking.

-cheaper, easier and more common to do with the correct way.

'lag', even with a front mount and long piping supposedly isnt all that bad from results i have seen/heard about, although i have never driven one. even so 'lag' can be interpereted in different ways, (most of which are wrong IMO) and everyones idea of what laggy is varies. but the general consensus i've found is that its really not that bad.

risk of turbo damage, although increased, really shouldnt be that bad unless the turbos hanging too low, which i would call a bad install, not failure to the basic idea of rear mount turbocharging

life span, turbo will be ALOT cooler if its rear mounted. the same question was also asked to an engineer from garret about reliability when they will come into contact with rain water and he laughed at the person asking it... i've also yet to hear of a cracked housing or turbo failure due to this reason.

as for cost and complexity, i'd say rear mount wins hands down on both. replacing the rear muffler with a small section of pipe will be quite noticeably cheaper than an exhaust manifold/dump pipe/catback. everything else should be pretty much the same, bar the added cost of a scavenge pump. in general you can normally find some decent room under the back of a car compared to a crowded engine bay. if you can get the car in the air to work on it, it would be heaps easier *my opinion*

Edited November 4, 2010 by VB-

[Peter89]

a decent front mount setup that moves the radiator back will have next to no lag.

lag as in the amount of revs it takes after throttle off. good example is my friend recently replaced his crap front mount setup to a custom front mount that moves the radiator back. now, throttle off - throttle on boost response has gone from around 1000rpm to get 16psi to 100-200rpm to get 16psi.

there's no way to get good response to large amounts of piping, these systems will always have more piping therefore poor response. however if a car with a rear mounted turbo has no intercooler boost response might be slightly better then with a front mount however the ability to generate high boost levels is limited.

turbos are more efficient closer to the exhaust manifold. while exhaust pressure forces the turbine to spin, the temperature of the exhaust gas has a vast amount of energy in it. the long large exhaust pipes cool the gas and energy is lost.

if you think spraying water on the outside of the turbos exhaust hosing wont have any negative effects, go ahead and do it.

if you are going to spend thousand on a turbo upgrade (with all the other parts like injectors, ecu and tuning) you might as well do it right the first time. most japanese cars have enough room for one or two turbos in the engine bay. the added cost of the exhaust manifold is worth it for doing a overall better setup.

[VB-]

a decent front mount setup that moves the radiator back will have next to no lag.

lag as in the amount of revs it takes after throttle off. good example is my friend recently replaced his crap front mount setup to a custom front mount that moves the radiator back. now, throttle off - throttle on boost response has gone from around 1000rpm to get 16psi to 100-200rpm to get 16psi.

there's no way to get good response to large amounts of piping, these systems will always have more piping therefore poor response. however if a car with a rear mounted turbo has no intercooler boost response might be slightly better then with a front mount however the ability to generate high boost levels is limited.

turbos are more efficient closer to the exhaust manifold. while exhaust pressure forces the turbine to spin, the temperature of the exhaust gas has a vast amount of energy in it. the long large exhaust pipes cool the gas and energy is lost.

if you think spraying water on the outside of the turbos exhaust hosing wont have any negative effects, go ahead and do it.

if you are going to spend thousand on a turbo upgrade (with all the other parts like injectors, ecu and tuning) you might as well do it right the first time. most japanese cars have enough room for one or two turbos in the engine bay. the added cost of the exhaust manifold is worth it for doing a overall better setup.

yeah actual lag wouldn't be the best, most people these days refer to boost threshold as 'lag', so i responded in kind.

water on turbo, its not like your spraying down a red hot exhaust housing, its a bit of water off the road, and the turbo wil be much cooler.

yes alot of jap cars do have room (well the older ones do, newer ones arent so friendly), but take note of what sort of cars these systems are being applied to. dont take what i was saying as this system is ideal, i agree entirely that a traditional setup will work better, but rear mounts do have their place, and i dont think the drawbacks outweigh the loss in performance for the street cars they're typically seen on.

[Harey]

The ones I have seen run smaller turbos than you would normally, this must be due to less heat (and therefore energy) arriving at the turbo.

I think overall they do offer less performance than a traditional setup but this can be outweighed by other advantages depending on your priorities.

[mad082]

the other thing to take into consideration is that these aren't hardcore turbo upgrades. they are simply turbo upgrades for NA vehicles to give them a bit more power.

[Galois]

Interesting discussion. In terms of thermodyamics, there is less potential for the rear mount turbos due to efficiency loss at the lower temperature, but that's just the thermodynamics. The extra piping, need for intercooler, specific turbo design (it's NA so not looking for huge boost) etc will all have more effect on determining whether or not it's worth it for any particular project.

[Peter89]

the other thing to take into consideration is that these aren't hardcore turbo upgrades. they are simply turbo upgrades for NA vehicles to give them a bit more power.

any turbo upgrade is hardcore. at minimum the car will need new injectors, fuel pump, ecu + tune. plus you can also had other stuff like intercoolers, boost controllers, exhausts. depending on the boost levels, the car might need cooling upgrades. more often then not, wider driven wheels with better tyres.

such an upgrade is going to cost thousands, especially if you get all the parts new. turbo kits alone start at over $1000.

sure you could just bolt it on and hope for the best then again, the cars performance increase would be poor for the money spent and you would risk damaging the car, no doubt from leaning out the engine.