Is Power (rwkw) Figure Everything? Why Are People So Hung Up On Kw Figures

[djvoodoo]

Hi SAUers.....

I'm curious to peoples opinions on peak power vs torque when tuning and what you prefer. I've had my car (R34GTT) road tuned (by Toshi) and finally had the chance to put it up on the dyno. Relatively low peak power figure of 170rwkw on 11psi but with 457nm of torque and AFR sitting on an even 12:1 (according to this particular dyno, @ air temp of 22deg).

Although it's a low rwkw reading, the amount of torque I have is quite breathtaking, and accelaration and on boost pull is more than enough to start your heart. I'd have to ask Toshi about the map he created, i.e timing etc. I'm not at all dissapointed by the peak power figure because there is more than enough torque to put me in the seat.

So why is every1 so hung up on how much KW they pull at the wheels for everyday street driving?

Opinions?

[Super Drager]

Hi SAUers.....

I'm curious to peoples opinions on peak power vs torque when tuning and what you prefer. I've had my car (R34GTT) road tuned (by Toshi) and finally had the chance to put it up on the dyno. Relatively low peak power figure of 170rwkw on 11psi but with 457nm of torque and AFR sitting on an even 12:1 (according to this particular dyno, @ air temp of 22deg).

Although it's a low rwkw reading, the amount of torque I have is quite breathtaking, and accelaration and on boost pull is more than enough to start your heart. I'd have to ask Toshi about the map he created, i.e timing etc. I'm not at all dissapointed by the peak power figure because there is more than enough torque to put me in the seat.

So why is every1 so hung up on how much KW they pull at the wheels for everyday street driving?

Opinions?

IMO peak power means jack shit, its average power + torque that makes a car quick not just peak rwkw.

[jrm]

Area under the curve is where it's at.

[Lazy-Bastard]

more rwkw makes your e-wang larger....simple really

[Touge Kyousou]

The way i see it, power is a by-product of torque so i look at power anyways BUT at rpm points. I don't just refer to peak power - it's area under the curve that wins, not just peak power.

My 3rd gear pushes my innards back and makes my body/fot instinctively want to lift off the throttle lol, it's.. interesting. Second gear i'm too tensed up and it's over quite quick especially now that i'm getting traction with better tires.

I would luurrvvveee to feel the pull from a 350+awkw gt-r though!

End of the day, my main driving is mountain runs so power delivery behaviour and average power is what i like. My car's a weekender if that makes any difference.

[djvoodoo]

Area under the curve is where it's at.

Agreed. I can understand wanting a track car to be working within it's peak rev range and at peak power, but on a street car, how often do u get to 6.5K rpm and stay there to make the most of that peak power.

That's why i have a better opinion of road tune vs dyno tune. On the road, you are the one driving so you can tell the difference in every aspect of the tune

[N1GTR]

Big numbers aren't everything. Sure it's nice to have 400kw atw + as a growing amount of members have on here

Everyone likes cars in different ways, set it up how YOU like it and don't worry about what others think

[N1GTR]

I would luurrvvveee to feel the pull from a 350+awkw gt-r though!

It's pretty special.

This may piss off sone gtst owners, but; forget what you think a fast skyline is, if you think a gtst is quick a quick gtr will really open your eyes

[Jap_Muscle]

It's pretty special.

This may piss off sone gtst owners, but; forget what you think a fast skyline is, if you think a gtst is quick a quick gtr will really open your eyes

Only off the line really. And even then a rwd is still fast with slicks. The world record holders are all rwd.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Jap_Muscle

[PM-R33]

I don't really think all people on here are hung up on kw figures at all. Maybe a lot of "new" people into the whole car scene or people that don't really know much about cars, but for the most of us, I definetely don't think it is true.

I think we all realise that power is a direction relation with rpm and torque. So while we talk about peak kw figures, we always ask (or allready know) the rest of the cars setup so can quite easily put it all together in our heads and determine whether a car is "fast" or not for a given situation.

For example, most of us on here would know a T04Z with a 1.06 housing on a RB20 pushing 350rwkw would be "slower" overall on the street than a GT3540 with a .86 housing on a RB30/26 pushing 320rwkw. Just because one car makes more peak power doesn't mean it would be faster over all and hence me mentioing the rest of the cars setup in the previous paragraph.

Hence why we have a dyno graph section, so we can compare the power of a car over the entire RPM range. I have done many comparisons with my dyno graphs and others to see what the cars are like. While some may have 10 or so more peak kw, I will have 30-40kw more through the rev range (for example).

So while all of this sounds quite easy to understand for a lot of us, it may be a bit to much to explain to every single person you talk to. Hence it is easy just to qoute a peak kw figure so people get a rough idea of what is going on in the car instead of getting into a 10 minute conversation talking about power/weight ratios, gearing in the gearbox and diff, torque at a given rpm etc just to explain how your car goes.

Also, hate to burst your bubble, but your car isn't pushing out a true 457Nm of torque. I think you need to research how dynos work and how they measure torque at the wheels.

Edited October 23, 2010 by PM-R33

[Touge Kyousou]

Ahh but off the line is half the fun =).

Yep i know a quick gts-t is only equal to a quick-ish gt-r hence wanting to try out a quick gt-r haha.

Alot harder and more money involved to get a rwd fast off the line and then you run a custom drag setup which sucks for any other application.

Someone mentioned peak power for track duties...you'd still want good power curve even for track. Peak power is only one small point on your power curve.

And yeah that torque figure is a bit sus...torque like that should give a much higher peak power reading unless your torque curve suddenly dies in the arse near the top end.

Pm-r33, is your dyno posted up ? I'd love to have a squiz at it (if it is posted up i.e. understand some poeple don't like sharing too much).

Edited October 23, 2010 by Touge Kyousou

[PM-R33]

Yeah I have an old one posted somewhere (not with the Vipec or the nitrous, that is still to come ), I'll try to find the old one though, wait up.

EDIT: Here's the thread:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Dy...ns-t270208.html

Don't bother reading the whole thread, it gets into a bit of a shit fight lol.

Edited October 23, 2010 by PM-R33

[jarrod83]

I think at the end of the day if your happy with how the car drives, then thats all that really matters.

Definately tune for the most average power, you cant create more power from torque, but you can create more torque from power., ie stay in the previous gear longer where you would be producing more torque to the wheels.

[djvoodoo]

I don't really think all people on here are hung up on kw figures at all. Maybe a lot of "new" people into the whole car scene or people that don't really know much about cars, but for the most of us, I definetely don't think it is true.

I think we all realise that power is a direction relation with rpm and torque. So while we talk about peak kw figures, we always ask (or allready know) the rest of the cars setup so can quite easily put it all together in our heads and determine whether a car is "fast" or not for a given situation.

For example, most of us on here would know a T04Z with a 1.06 housing on a RB20 pushing 350rwkw would be "slower" overall on the street than a GT3540 with a .86 housing on a RB30/26 pushing 320rwkw. Just because one car makes more peak power doesn't mean it would be faster over all and hence me mentioing the rest of the cars setup in the previous paragraph.

Hence why we have a dyno graph section, so we can compare the power of a car over the entire RPM range. I have done many comparisons with my dyno graphs and others to see what the cars are like. While some may have 10 or so more peak kw, I will have 30-40kw more through the rev range (for example).

So while all of this sounds quite easy to understand for a lot of us, it may be a bit to much to explain to every single person you talk to. Hence it is easy just to qoute a peak kw figure so people get a rough idea of what is going on in the car instead of getting into a 10 minute conversation talking about power/weight ratios, gearing in the gearbox and diff, torque at a given rpm etc just to explain how your car goes.

Also, hate to burst your bubble, but your car isn't pushing out a true 457Nm of torque. I think you need to research how dynos work and how they measure torque at the wheels.

Ouch. Check and Mate. :-) All good dude.

I have posted a dyno run sheeet. So in terms of torque measurement from the dyno, what do you read it as? I might get my 'google' on then to get a true calculation.....

[N1GTR]

Only off the line really. And even then a rwd is still fast with slicks. The world record holders are all rwd.

Not to get too far off topic, but it's not only off the line. So many times through twisty roads they can't get power down out of corners (and I'm not talking hairpins), yes in the drag world rwd with tubs and slicks is quick but who drives that on the street, this is more about realistic street cars than purpose build racecars with no rego

What I find funny is how people making comments such as the ones in this thread then they go in a fast gtr and all of a sudden they change their tune so to speak.

Anyway back on topic, do what feels good and as long as you're happy good for you

[XR Pilot]

Definately tune for the most average power, you cant create more power from torque, but you can create more torque from power., ie stay in the previous gear longer where you would be producing more torque to the wheels.

You just tune for maximum power everywhere you can get it, period, obviously within a safety margin allowing for external factors (ie heatsoak, bad batch of fuel etc)

There is no such thing as a tune for power or a tune for torque, as horsepower is calculated from torque anyway. So in a nutshell, if you are able to make 10kw more power at XYZ rpm then great, you now have more torque at that point also. Quiet simple and easy to tune a car on a dyno properly, the only thing that can be easier on the road is transient enrichments and in some cases tuning for lumpy cams.

[unique1]

jump in a 400kw+ gtr and you will realise If you havent experienced it, how can you understand i suppose. 300rwkw to me seems abit slow and not that exciting like it used to be years ago when it was the fastest car i had been in.

[R31Nismoid]

Only off the line really. And even then a rwd is still fast with slicks. The world record holders are all rwd.

On the street?

You know, where 99% of us do our driving

I just came back from a DECA day (motorkhana) with my new GTR (350rwkw)... Not one car launched harder/faster.

This included blown Monaro's on slicks that I believe run 10's with relative ease

But yes, power is important to an extent - power delivery however is IMO the most important.

[PM-R33]

What new GTR have you got Ash?

[ARTZ]

haha..i remember doin the same thing a year ago,got my car tuned at 185 kw and like WOW! 620 nm of torgue ..