Steering / Cournering Issue *serious*

[Willis]

Hi all.

1991 Nissan r32 GTR, doesn't like going around bends. I will give you a quick explanation of my issue.

Problem: At speeds above 80kph (100kph it's really prominante) when i turn the steering wheel left the car responds normally starts to turn smoothly, then suddenly the car turns in harder without any further movement of the steering wheel. It's like an over-correction but in the same direction. It is very pronounced, and as you can imagine makes turning left handers rather .. erm, difficult.

I have owned the car for 3months or so, and have been slowly getting bits and pieces fixed.

My mechanic and i are pretty much stumped. He thinks that it could be bushes in the rear ..

Initially i thought it was the HICAS, so i had that removed using a lockout kit, and the hydraulic lines were re-routed. As far as i know the HICAS ECU is still there, just no hydraulic inputs to the rear wheels. Turned out HICAS wasn't the problem.

Upon further inspection of the cars suspension, it was then found that the strut mounting plate's in the front (not on the coilovers on the chasis) where installed incorrectly and this had resulted in the left hand plate being cracked. Finally we have found the issue! Guess again .. that wasnt the problem either.

Castor arm bushes have recently been replaced with poly-urethane bushes, as they were buggered.

The car has an "aftermarket" 2-way diff in the rear, and it's apparently abit sad .. makes alot of noise when cournering slow and changing gears with low revs etc (normal operational noises i think)

And that's all i can think of, does anyone have any idea's that i can raise with my mechanic? He thinks that it could be bushes in the rear of the car, he said he has found 6mm of play in a bush?

I am sceptical .. and would rather not replace $700 worth of bushes just to find my car still pulling to the left. (it could also be pulling to the right, but it's nowhere near as pronounced if so.. pretty sure it's only pulling to the left side)

Could it be the diff? Bushes? Something else?

The chasis is straight etc and all the major thing's have been checked. Not sure if it is relevant but the car also twitches abit under initial braking and the wheel wiggles a little bit.

It's a pig to try and courner fast! Any help would be greatly appreciated. If you need anymore info, just ask .. and i'll do my best to let you know!

Willis.

[R.3.2.G.T.R]

umm sounds bit like what my 32R was doing when going around corners, when was the last wheel alignment done??? i believe mine was due to worn ball joint, was a few years back, best to take it to pedders for their $20 full suspension check, then get someone else to do the work

[Sheriff Wan]

Are all your tyres the same size?

[Willis]

Yes the tyres are all the same size, with fairly even wear. Standard wheels as well.

Pretty sure we have had a full wheel alignment and wheel balance done already. Alright i'll see if there is a pedders in Wagga

[our12]

Hi.

Sorry for getting off the subject. Did you fix the problem with the car going into 4 wd you enquired about sometime ago. If so what caused it?

[Willis]

our12: no worries mate, nah i havn't fixed that problem yet! It doesnt really bother me and at this stage i have more pressing issue's to fix as you can see i'll be sure to post up on my original thread when i start seeing some results!

Back on topic, i have confirmed that the car recieved a full wheel alignment and wheel balance after the removal of HICAS.

[turboedsloth]

When you turn the steering wheel and it does the thing can you feel it jolting at all?

[Willis]

When you turn the steering wheel and it does the thing can you feel it jolting at all?

Not really sure quite how to describe it, i wouldn't say it's a violent jolt .. the car just turns in HARD for limited wheel movement!

[justright]

Got the same problem on my r33 but mine does it to the right! Replaced upper arms with adjustable ones, to get more neg camber, problem still there! Now going to replace outer rod ends if no result will then reco steering rack, Have also replaced swaybar bushes and fitted adjustable castor arms, I am also having problems when braking! front jogs to the right and steering wheel pulls to the left all at the same time, car steers straight! Have taken it to steering guys and done two wheel alignments with no results, hope this helps in some way

[Willis]

Got the same problem on my r33 but mine does it to the right! Replaced upper arms with adjustable ones, to get more neg camber, problem still there! Now going to replace outer rod ends if no result will then reco steering rack, Have also replaced swaybar bushes and fitted adjustable castor arms, I am also having problems when braking! front jogs to the right and steering wheel pulls to the left all at the same time, car steers straight! Have taken it to steering guys and done two wheel alignments with no results, hope this helps in some way

Cheers for the info man! Well it's not sounding too promising if you still havn't got your problem fixed. The car is booked in to get a Pedders safety check this Wednesday .. hopefully that will shed some light. The only problem is they are going to tell me the 20-30 things wrong my suspension, and claim that my issue could be any of them ..

[zebra]

Sounds a bit like bad weight transfer, what condition are the front shocks in? what brand and what spring weights are they?

[Willis]

Sounds a bit like bad weight transfer, what condition are the front shocks in? what brand and what spring weights are they?

Front shocks / springs are Tien Super Streets .. apparently in fairly new condition with no leaks.

[blk94r33]

$700 for what bushes exactly? Has your mechanic let you under the car on a hoist or shown you which bushes are specifically worn? If it feels like the car turns in, I'd suspect something in the front end (as you have the HICAS disabled, it's unlikely that the back end is "steering").

Get every bush/connection in the front end re-checked (if not already done) as movement in any component will alter the steering angle when it moves.

[GTS4WD]

I think I know what you are talking about.

Does this "over correction" occor when you lift off the power and have steering lock on?

Take a bend at the speed where it is most pronounced, feed in a fair amount of steering lock, lift off and power on. Does it occur then, every time you lift/apply power?

Edited October 31, 2010 by GTS4WD

[justright]

Just a quick update have fixed my steering problem today! While replacing tie rod ends which was not the problem it seems some how that the lower inner control arm bolt was loose!!! causing the steering to dart mid corner at speed, now its tight all problems gone! Now brakes and corners 100% and best of all cost me $0.00 Hope this helps your problem Willis.....

[Willis]

Just a quick update have fixed my steering problem today! While replacing tie rod ends which was not the problem it seems some how that the lower inner control arm bolt was loose!!! causing the steering to dart mid corner at speed, now its tight all problems gone! Now brakes and corners 100% and best of all cost me $0.00 Hope this helps your problem Willis.....

Thanks alot justright, i will have to get this checked out ASAP then. Congrats on fixing your problem, and cheers for sharing that info with me. Hopefully it will fix my issue as well! Enjoy!

[MrStabby]

Yes the tyres are all the same size, with fairly even wear. Standard wheels as well.

Pretty sure we have had a full wheel alignment and wheel balance done already. Alright i'll see if there is a pedders in Wagga

First thing id look at is the toe. The more toe out the more "darty" it will be, that is, the more it will want to change direction. IIRC i have 0 toe front and back.

[blk94r33]

$700 for what bushes exactly? Has your mechanic let you under the car on a hoist or shown you which bushes are specifically worn? If it feels like the car turns in, I'd suspect something in the front end (as you have the HICAS disabled, it's unlikely that the back end is "steering").

Get every bush/connection in the front end re-checked (if not already done) as movement in any component will alter the steering angle when it moves.

Just a quick update have fixed my steering problem today! While replacing tie rod ends which was not the problem it seems some how that the lower inner control arm bolt was loose!!! causing the steering to dart mid corner at speed, now its tight all problems gone! Now brakes and corners 100% and best of all cost me $0.00 Hope this helps your problem Willis.....

Lol

[Willis]

Ok well abit of an update. Upon driving my car to Brisbane from Wagga Wagga NSW for my Christmas holidays i noticed that my steering issue is worse.

A mate and myself jacked her up and pulled the wheels off the fronts, to have abit of a look and see if we can see anything that looked out of place. First check we did was grabbing the brake rotor and gave it a good wiggle. I would have to say it had between 3 and 7mm of play .. indicating that the upper ball joint / something in that general area was completely rooted. As far as i know there is supposed to be ZERO play.

We also checked the otherside, there was a tiny bit of play there as well but no-where near as much. It all makes seems to make sense to me, the RH ball joint had the most play .. and my steering issue was when turning left. The RH side would load up under the weight of the car pushing outwards, and at a certain point the force would be great enough to allow the wheel / rotor / ball joint to "shift / play" mid-courner .. increasing the amount of camber on the outer wheel resulting in an increase of the already instructed turn.

I'm not sure if that is entirely correct (feel free to correct me) however i think it explains my cournering issue perfectly. I had to leave my car in Brisbane though due to the floods, so i won't be able to get the ball joint fixed for another 2 months or so to confirm my prognosis. But i thought i'd update this thread to let anyone else who has similar issue's know what / where to check

Thanks BWRGTR, as your suggestion was dead on.

I just diddn't think it would have been something so obvious.. my mechanic couldn't find it (isn't it the first thing to check, play in the rotor / wheel that is) .. so i think from now on i'll try and fault find my own problems!

Hope this helps.

Willis.

[NISSAN GTR]

i know this is not my thread but since we are on this subject........

I dont think i have the same problem as Willis because my car is pretty new with no or little wear .

I took my GTR R34 non VSPEC out on to country roads for the first time today and realised i was getting, mid corner weight shift putting the car off line ?

Its almost like the Hicas is kicking in about 80kms and darting the car around on long sweeping bends

The other thing i can think of from this thread is wheel alignment .

Also another thing to think about is the suspension on the Non VSPEC is pretty soft

Any help would be good . Thanks

Edited January 23, 2011 by NISSAN GTR