[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[Beer Baron]

Any more details? Which cars, EFR models?

Realistically if there isn't any solid info then it could be typical pit area chinese whispers.

I was only personally involved with 1 car running the EFR turbos (John Brights R32) and it certainly didn't have any fail over the race weekend, but he was running lower than normal boost to get the best chance of making it through. SSE were running a 9180 and with pretty substantial boost and I spoke to guys from cosworth and SSE on saturday night and they hadn't had any failures over the weekend.

there may have been 1 or 2 other cars running EFRs (EVO's) but I'm not sure. I know Kosta (Tilton/Insight car) told me he had one to replace his current BW S300, and Steve Kakavas I think has tried one or going to try one. but again I don't know for sure.

[Beer Baron]

Just to be clear, which RX6 does the Cyber EVO use? For some reason I thought it runs a Power Enterprise RX6R which I believe is a different beast to the Apexi RX6...

it's an apexi RX6 and Apexi gate on the cyber car. not as big as you'd think! tiny compared to most peoples gear. but they are not making that much HP. from memory around 550ps atw. they tuned it at Gas again and takizawa-san told me what it made in kw atw but I can't remember. was in the 300 range.

[Beer Baron]

oh and cyber broke a turbo. lol. not an EFR..... they snapped a shaft on their apexi RX6...

[Beer Baron]

also, no way SSE were using teh NAWS. They just don't need it for one thing. they already have anti-lag and a great big turbo on there. if they need more power they just up the boost. I don't think they'd be interested in nos anyway as there is a big trade off in that you have to carry the bottle, lines etc round the whole track but only use it for a quick blast down the straight. they are very weight conscious to the point they don't have airjacks on the car, instead they use clever little pit jacks that go under each wheel (which cyber saw last year and copied for this year!). very clever.

if that's not enough I spoke to the cars and personally looked over the car (amazing car) and there's no nos on it. they can't run it in the US comps and can't run it in aus either so why would they?

the car definitely had more to give but they actually suffered a gearbox problem in the final session which robbed them of the chance to go for a quicker time.

take nothing away from cyber though. those guys are amazing and tarzan is one hell of a pilot.

[SkylineSky]

Its concerning that 8 months on from the point that they started leaking into the market the confirmed failure versus performance proof ratio of EFR turbos I've found is worse than the likes of XSPower etc. If this murmur of failures from the event proves any truth it'll be more like 50:50. The best results I've seen from them so far make them no more attractive to me than the Forced Performance HTA turbos, and at a higher price.

Its definitely bad enough that there is now no way I'd recommend them to anyone, price aside - unless there is eventually a convincing amount of good results over a period of time.

I hope people start having better luck!

Yes Lithium you are correct BW were premature to release the EFR and now there are a few people on this forum trying to cover it up, and I would be pissed to purchase one to have it explode and destroy my engine.. BW have some serious issues to fix, they acknowledge they have got to fix the impeller problems along with the housing issues, until then stay away from them... For such a large company they sure have shot themselves in the foot...and not doing their PR any good. Im sure in another 2 years time they will have it sorted and they will be the turbo to have that is a given but for now they are a grenade.

[GTScotT]

Im not sure if I will agree with SkylineSky, but I will say that BW definitely need to pull their finger out and do some real world testing of their own.

Counting on race teams with limited time and often budgets will not get you the results your after. With BW's size they should be able to employ a team and a car or two (beyond what they have of full-race) and sit there testing the things - day in, day out.

Honestly, if small time hypergear can produce and test every unit that makes it past design stage you would think BW can match it.... The bloke had a car that he fits the things to and pays to retune them sometimes seemingly weekly. Patent and production legalities and what ever other issues aside, Im sure BW has got the right to build and test their product before they send it out the door.

Come on BW..... Commit to your own product..

[Rolls]

Im not sure if I will agree with SkylineSky, but I will say that BW definitely need to pull their finger out and do some real world testing of their own.

Counting on race teams with limited time and often budgets will not get you the results your after. With BW's size they should be able to employ a team and a car or two (beyond what they have of full-race) and sit there testing the things - day in, day out.

Honestly, if small time hypergear can produce and test every unit that makes it past design stage you would think BW can match it.... The bloke had a car that he fits the things to and pays to retune them sometimes seemingly weekly. Patent and production legalities and what ever other issues aside, Im sure BW has got the right to build and test their product before they send it out the door.

Come on BW..... Commit to your own product..

BW are obviously a massive company no doubt plagued with bureaucracy and bullshit like all large companies, this is probably a very small side project some head person decided to embark on and they don't really care if it succeeds or not, the company certainly isn't dependant on it anyway.

Hypergears entire business depends on whether he sells it or not, hence he tests everything. I can see why it is the way it is tbh.

[TheKeeper]

Some of you guys are reading waaaay too much into this in my opinion. I believe getting as many race teams to test your product is EXACTLY how you find the merit of your product. BW had some of these turbos on their cars testing them well before they spoke with any outside agencies, but you need a variety of people using them. Various tuning strategies, engine displacements, revs, different fuels, etc. Running them for over a thousand hours on a gas stand won't get you all the real world info you need, and neither will using only your own cars and tuners.

These turbos are not "grenades", I know of plenty here in the states that are taking abuse on a weekly, and some on a daily basis without the hint of failure. Yes, we have seen a few failures as too, but in most of those cases we asked the tuners to attempt to break them. (anti-lag, overspeed, etc) BorgWarner is a huge company, but trust me they DEFINITELY care whether or not this product fails. More than you would ever imagine.

The launch has been littered with problems. From production woes, to companies they outsourced not being able to produce quality product in large volumes, materials being harder to work with than expected, etc. Did they "launch" the turbo too early? Probably.

BorgWarner makes some of the best, most durable OEM and race application turbos on the planet, no argument. They have stepped out of the turbo norm to bring us a turbo that will prove to be a world class turbo in any situation. Any "haters" will hate, it's just the way it is. Forums are the greatest and worst thing ever invented. You have to take everything with a grain of salt. Weed through the crap and draw your own conclusions. The BorgWarner EFR's are world class turbos*, yes...with an asterisk. There have been and continue to be hiccups, but we can see the greatness here in the states because we've had more experience with them for much longer.

If you are truly waiting to buy one of these turbos, I wouldn't be too discouraged by any of the recent events coming up on this forum. BorgWarner is addressing any and all issues right now as though this IS their only product. Rest assured, they'll be successful. (this is a forum, take any of that for what it's worth)

Sierra Sierra was accused of "cheating" because of their straight away speed, the turbo works. And it did so without failing.

I'm not here to argue any points, I'm not even here to calm a torch wielding mob, I'm just reporting what we know here in the states about the BorgWarner EFR team since we are in constant contact with them. The performance of these turbos will be more realized as time goes on, and ultimately will put all this e-banter to rest...I'm not concerned whatsoever.

It's just a day or two after the event, I'll be back when I have something more significant to pass on.

By the way Australia, you guys put on a world class event and should be very proud!

-Brett

[NYTSKY]

Cyber Evo was only making 360awkw, which is crazy considering the times it was running!

[FineLine]

One can only assume you're "not concerned" because its not your hard earned that goes up in smoke when a turbo fails.

Its fine and noble to say bw will replace any turbo that fails but does that include replacing the mega dollar engines that can suffer as a result of the failure or is that simply "colateral damage"

A hater I am not, knowing some of the people posting in this thread neither are they. We were not the one's unleashing the "next big thing" in to an eager and unsuspecting market.

With a name like bw most of us assumed this product would live up to expectations, quality control would be exemplary And delivery would be in a reasonably timey manner.

To date results are rare as robot shit, quality control is obviously up the creek and we wont even mention delivery.

The "hate" as you call it is born out of frustration as people like myself seek viable options to what is currently available only to be let down by all of the above.

If I were bw I would withdraw the product from the market place until r&d was completed and the product was readily available to the customer. They are not doing themselves any favors by selling limited numbers of half arsed products.

[TheKeeper]

One can only assume you're "not concerned" because its not your hard earned that goes up in smoke when a turbo fails.

Its fine and noble to say bw will replace any turbo that fails but does that include replacing the mega dollar engines that can suffer as a result of the failure or is that simply "colateral damage"

A hater I am not, knowing some of the people posting in this thread neither are they. We were not the one's unleashing the "next big thing" in to an eager and unsuspecting market.

With a name like bw most of us assumed this product would live up to expectations, quality control would be exemplary And delivery would be in a reasonably timey manner.

To date results are rare as robot shit, quality control is obviously up the creek and we wont even mention delivery.

The "hate" as you call it is born out of frustration as people like myself seek viable options to what is currently available only to be let down by all of the above.

If I were bw I would withdraw the product from the market place until r&d was completed and the product was readily available to the customer. They are not doing themselves any favors by selling limited numbers of half arsed products.

Ha ha... the first part of that is actually really, REALLY funny. So...you are "assuming" that none of my "hard earned money" I'm going to invest in HUNDREDS of these turbos will be just fine if all these turbos go "up in smoke"? It would probably put me out of business. Seriously, you should have thought that one out a little.

There has not been ONE single turbo failure on the intake side, thus far the only failures have been on the exhaust side and not affecting motors whatsoever and I doubt there will be.

It's simple, if you are concerned, don't buy one.

Last thing I'm posting up in here about this....If you have had PERSONAL experience with one, by all means POST UP ANYTHING you want, good or bad. If you want to blast away when you have not had any experience with them personally, well, that's what we in the states call haters. Label yourselves however you want.

[FineLine]

If you can afford hundreds of them then it isnt going to be a problem to you. perhaps you should invest in bw and assist in developing the product to a reliable state given you are such a fanboi.

Call us what you will, you are what we call dickhead simply because you are so blinded by the shiny bits that any form of criticism is seen as an all out assault on the product.

If and when the turbo is offerred as the original blurb outlined I will definitely look closer at purchasing it. Until then this has been one of the worst new product release campaigns I ever saw.

[Sub Boy32]

Woo.....Thems fighting words!

Like most people that have followed these turbos, Yes, The probably released them too early, But calling them a crap product is a bit far fetched.

The reason there hasn't been many results is the lack of "Production" product out there, There are a few prototype units running around, But as you can imagine, these are test units only and the results are not really for consumers, they are for BW to data base with.

I ordered my 8374 from Full-Race about 7mths now, And yes I'm a little pissed it has taken this long, But I still believe it is worth waiting for

[FineLine]

Woo.....Thems fighting words!

Like most people that have followed these turbos, Yes, The probably released them too early, But calling them a crap product is a bit far fetched.

The reason there hasn't been many results is the lack of "Production" product out there, There are a few prototype units running around, But as you can imagine, these are test units only and the results are not really for consumers, they are for BW to data base with.

I ordered my 8374 from Full-Race about 7mths now, And yes I'm a little pissed it has taken this long, But I still believe it is worth waiting for

I dont recall anybody calling the product crap. If they get it sorted i have no doubt it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Particularly after speaking to people who have had limited experience with it.

Whats out there may be prototypes to you but these turbos were released at sema 8 months ago. Key word being "released" albeit prematurely as it turns out.

I've had my say on it. Lets wait and see if and when they get it on the pile.

[Sub Boy32]

I dont recall anybody calling the product crap. If they get it sorted i have no doubt it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Particularly after speaking to people who have had limited experience with it.

Whats out there may be prototypes to you but these turbos were released at sema 8 months ago. Key word being "released" albeit prematurely as it turns out.

I've had my say on it. Lets wait and see if and when they get it on the pile.

Sorry I read "grenade" as crap....

[Beer Baron]

If you can afford hundreds of them then it isnt going to be a problem to you. perhaps you should invest in bw and assist in developing the product to a reliable state given you are such a fanboi.

Call us what you will, you are what we call dickhead simply because you are so blinded by the shiny bits that any form of criticism is seen as an all out assault on the product.

If and when the turbo is offerred as the original blurb outlined I will definitely look closer at purchasing it. Until then this has been one of the worst new product release campaigns I ever saw.

noel, 'thekeeper' isn't a 'fanboi' and he DOES work with BW in developing the product and he HAS invested time and money in the success of the product. He has been working with BW developing the product and I'm sure he's doing anything possible to improve the current status.

the failures are what they are, a new product with some teething problems. to be fair to BW to the best of my knowledge any EFR turbo that failed has been replaced by BW (I understand that may be something of a cold comfort to customers who would have to pay for installation twice). do they need some sorting out? yes they do. would I buy one for my own car? yes I will.

anyway, the R32 running the twin 6258s ran hard at WTAC and got a good result considering what a massive effort he went through just to get his car there. In the very near future I'll have to think hard about do I want a single 8374 or 9180 or a pair of 6258s on my car?

[Lithium]

OK I am sure there was a post elsewhere which made it seem like the R32 had Garretts on it - are there any dyno results for it? Does the owner of it have any thoughts he can add on the change from the Garrett to EFR equivalents?

[STATUS]

This thread is now full of useless haters... seriously STFU if you dont like it go buy a Garret like every other "puppet"... i sure as hell dont mind and im sure "the keeper" will still be smiling

[FineLine]

This thread is now full of useless haters... seriously STFU if you dont like it go buy a Garret like every other "puppet"... i sure as hell dont mind and im sure "the keeper" will still be smiling

The same could be said of you and your dislike of certain ecu's so STFU and go tune the ones you like.

[Rolls]

Someone's in a grumpy mood.